Aktion 1005 Was Not To Destroy Remains?

[Nessie]

I can accuse you of anything if you can't prove it happened. There's no point in me wanting to exterminate my hometown of 26,000 inhabitants and going around saying I didn't if I didn't have the materials to do it. The Nazis didn't have these implements and therefore didn't do it; it's very simple. There's no point in claiming we have no record of wood or coal being delivered and it happened anyway, or with your lame excuses; that only passes muster in exceptional courts.

There is evidence to prove the Nazis mass cremated corpses on pyres. It does not matter that you do not think they had the "implements" to do it. Your opinion is not evidence.

[TlsMS93]

There is evidence to prove the Nazis mass cremated corpses on pyres. It does not matter that you do not think they had the "implements" to do it. Your opinion is not evidence.

It's not an opinion, it's facts, they didn't have the capacity to cremate even a tenth of the alleged number, you as a Jew are on your own behalf, it's in the interest of your race to look after this and it's perfectly normal, just as it's normal for Russians to think that WWII was the Great Patriotic War, I shouldn't even be debating with someone like that since culturally I grew up with this, it's the same as me being born in a Christian culture wanting to teach something to Eastern culture about anything.

[Nessie]

There is evidence to prove the Nazis mass cremated corpses on pyres. It does not matter that you do not think they had the "implements" to do it. Your opinion is not evidence.

It's not an opinion, it's facts, they didn't have the capacity to cremate even a tenth of the alleged number, you as a Jew are on your own behalf, it's in the interest of your race to look after this and it's perfectly normal, just as it's normal for Russians to think that WWII was the Great Patriotic War, I shouldn't even be debating with someone like that since culturally I grew up with this, it's the same as me being born in a Christian culture wanting to teach something to Eastern culture about anything.

No, it is your opinion that the Nazis could not work out how to cremate exhumed corpses on pyres. Your incredulity is not evidence to prove mass cremations did not happen.

Aktion 1005 is proven to have taken place, because of the evidence from eyewitnesses, the physical remains of cremated corpses and the circumstantial evidence around the Nazis wanting to cover-up the mass murders.

[TlsMS93]

No, it is your opinion that the Nazis could not work out how to cremate exhumed corpses on pyres. Your incredulity is not evidence to prove mass cremations did not happen.

Aktion 1005 is proven to have taken place, because of the evidence from eyewitnesses, the physical remains of cremated corpses and the circumstantial evidence around the Nazis wanting to cover-up the mass murders.

Your authority here is worthless. You contribute absolutely nothing useful here, only moldy circular reasoning. You should be grateful. In other contexts, you would have already been kicked out, but we tolerate it due to your inability to provide us with anything that truly challenges our claims. In fact, you refuse to address the core issue, hoping that hammering out circular excuses will lead somewhere. Geez, is this the only exterminationist here? The forum is taking it too far.

[AreYouSirius]

The difference between historians and so-called revisionists, is that historians accept the evidence that the Nazis were able to build and operate gas chambers that killed millions, whereas so-called revisionists do not accept that evidence and claim it cannot have happened, because they cannot work out how it was possible.

No, gas chambers are a very peculiar and modern method of mass murder, unprecedented in literature, except for some who argue that Napoleon used ship decks to crush resistance groups in Haiti, but even this is debated, even on a smaller scale.

I focus on the impossibility of the extermination bottleneck that this would require—obedient victims behaving like wax figures or canned sardines—and the limited cremation process. And the documents prove this bottleneck and this inefficiency.

Just because you cannot work how it was done, does not evidence it was not done.

Here’s the rub: neither can you.

You cannot work out how it was done.

There are physical, logistical, and archeological impossibilities and incongruences you cannot surmount.

You have attempted.

You have failed.

When pressed: you perform insufferable, rote, and canned deflections like your bizarre rhetorical maneuver of always attempting to shift the burden of proof.

[Nessie]

...

Just because you cannot work how it was done, does not evidence it was not done.

Here’s the rub: neither can you.

You cannot work out how it was done.

There are physical, logistical, and archeological impossibilities and incongruences you cannot surmount.

You have attempted.

You have failed.

When pressed: you perform insufferable, rote, and canned deflections like your bizarre rhetorical maneuver of always attempting to shift the burden of proof.

You are wrong, in three ways.

1 - say I cannot work out how it was done either, how would that evidence it did not happen? It wouldn't. There are lots of things you and I do not know how they worked, but that is not evidence to prove they do not exist. Just because you cannot work out how the Nazis exhumed and cremated mass graves, does not mean therefore they did not.

2 - I can work out how it was done, just not to your satisfaction. The Nazis used slave labourers to exhume the bodies. They then worked out an efficient way to cremate the corpses, after some failed experiments. They found that piling corpses on a grate above wood, setting the wood alight and then letting the fire spread amongst the corpses worked. It was like having an unattended BBQ, that sets fire to the meat on the grill. They would have no issue sourcing wood from the huge eastern European forests and the many wood yards. There was an example of a pyre found at Ohrdruf camp. It was not that big, yet the heat it generated was enough to bend the rails. The cremations were not necessarily to ash, as there is a report of a rendering machine being sent to Belzec. Each part of the process I describe, is evidenced to have happened.

3 - when you claim I am reversing the burden of proof, you are deflecting from my request that you prove there were no mass graves and pyres. You can evidence that, with eyewitnesses who say they worked at an AR camp and it had no mass graves or pyres. Or, an archaeological survey that finds undisturbed ground at the location of an alleged mass grave and pyre. You know you have no evidence, you cannot do that, so you dodge by suggesting I am shifting the burden of proof, when it is me who provides the evidence, not you!

[Keen]

"Operation 1005 was instituted by the Nazis to wipe out the traces of the mass murders they had perpetrated in Eastern and Central Europe."

When you say "wipe out the traces of the mass murders" do you mean that magical method they used to make the "huge mass graves" magically disappear, or the jewish corpses magically disappear, or both?

I'm still a bit confused about this "magically disappearing jew / mass grave" theory of yours Nessie. Could you please explain to us, in laymans terms, how this magical process works?

Also, I wouild like to purchase a pair of the same magic glasses that you use that allows you to see "huge mass graves" that no one else in the world can see. Where did you get yours? Who makes them?

[Keen]

The orthodox account would be that the bodies were destroyed

When you say "destroyed" do you mean magically disappear?

Nessie seems to be having trouble explaining the "magically disappearing jew" theory. Maybe you can chime in here and tell us how it works.

Also, do you have the same kind of magic glasses that Nessie has? Where did you get yours? I can't seem to find them anywhere online.

[Keen]

Here we go again the twisting and turning of those who seek to deceive.

If the mass murders had happened as claimed it is reasonable to expect that the Germans might have had the thought to cover up their deeds as it became clear things in the war were turning against them. But given the decline in their battlefront efforts and successes they would not have had the time to do the disappearing act as is claimed. There was simply neither the time, the labour and the equipment in a rapidly worsening war situation to do what is claimed. They might have had some success but nowhere nearly long enough to make all these millions of corpses disappear like a David Blaine trick.

It is another lie.

Remarkably, Nessie and Bombsaway seem to be with you on the no disappearing bodies trick man.

Now, I'm told I'm making a strawman thinking that aktion 1005 was ever billed as a disappearing act...

/shrug

Now, even at Chelmno, all the remains are still present and not removed by being thrown into the stream.

/shrug

I just imagined being told that Aktion 1005 was used to obliterate all the evidence.

The bodies were destroyed, because a body definitionally is an intact structure. Ashes =/= bodies, your argument here rests on silly semantic distinctions. This should be a clue you into the overall weakness of your case, that you have to resort to nitpicking language.

There's that magically disappearing jew theory at work again.

BA, if Ashes =/= bodies, then: NO Ashes would = NO bodies, right?

[Keen]

The evidence of killing hundreds of thousands was destroyed, at chelmno eg,

You do mean "magically" destroyed, right?

And these alleged "huge mass graves" at Chelmno that you keep talking about, does a person need a pair of those magic glasses to see them?

[Keen]

One time cremation is to erase evidence, now it is to avoid official counting. The same as with Ziklon B, one time it is capsules, another time it is cylinders, another time it is showers.

Cremation does not erase physical matter, even hiding it doesn't. Under these terms, silly semantic games really, it's impossible to practically destroy bodies. Maybe if you threw the bodies into an open volcano?

Interesting. Then would you please answer the following question:

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

[bombsaway]

The orthodox account would be that the bodies were destroyed

When you say "destroyed" do you mean magically disappear?

Nessie seems to be having trouble explaining the "magically disappearing jew" theory. Maybe you can chime in here and tell us how it works.

Also, do you have the same kind of magic glasses that Nessie has? Where did you get yours? I can't seem to find them anywhere online.

They burned and destroyed the bodies, and at places like Chelmno, Sobibor, and Belzec dumped the crushed remains back into the graves. You should go to the site at Chelmno and start digging if you're interested.

[Keen]

At Auschwitz, the river where most ash was dumped was within camp grounds

You call this a river:



I guess one needs a pair of those magic glasses in order to see ponds turn into rivers.

[Keen]

The orthodox account would be that the bodies were destroyed

When you say "destroyed" do you mean magically disappear?

Nessie seems to be having trouble explaining the "magically disappearing jew" theory. Maybe you can chime in here and tell us how it works.

Also, do you have the same kind of magic glasses that Nessie has? Where did you get yours? I can't seem to find them anywhere online.

They burned and destroyed the bodies, and at places like Chelmno, Sobibor, and Belzec dumped the crushed remains back into the graves. You should go to the site at Chelmno and start digging if you're interested.

So your answer to this question is:

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

[Nessie]

They burned and destroyed the bodies, and at places like Chelmno, Sobibor, and Belzec dumped the crushed remains back into the graves. You should go to the site at Chelmno and start digging if you're interested.

This is the issue, the forensically ignorant so-called revisionists, and some historians, have not understood. The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves, as they knew that is impossible. What Aktion 1005 achieved, was the prevention of body counts, identification and the establishing of the cause of death. It made any potential investigation into what they had done, far harder.