Why do the reality deniers run from this simple question? [non-nefarious diggings]

[Stubble]

Excellent.

Keep those photos comming.

But could I ask a favor?

Could you post them the the Sobibor mass graves thread and not in this one?

Thanks.

Oh, and can we verify what we are told we are looking at in that photo? Of course not!

And how does hair survive "cremation"?

Keen, the link is in the post, so, ostensibly you could 'quote post' and pull the link from the post that way.

I'm just screen shotting them then cropping then uploading to 'postimages.org' then pulling from 'direct link'.

No account, no nothing, just upload and go.

Link as link instead of image;

https://i.postimg.cc/tgSj9cFF/20250914-130635.jpg

[Keen]

Excellent.

Keep those photos comming.

But could I ask a favor?

Could you post them the the Sobibor mass graves thread and not in this one?

Thanks.

Oh, and can we verify what we are told we are looking at in that photo? Of course not!

And how does hair survive "cremation"?

Keen, the link is in the post, so, ostensibly you could 'quote post' and pull the link from the post that way.

I'm just screen shotting them then cropping then uploading to 'postimages.org' then pulling from 'direct link'.

No account, no nothing, just upload and go.

Link as link instead of image;

https://i.postimg.cc/tgSj9cFF/20250914-130635.jpg

Thank you!

[Nessie]

At first I thought this was a repetition of other threads, but Keen is actually raising a point that is often glossed over. The issue of "non-nefarious diggings" is something to keep in mind with the grave density discussions (where Holocaust promoters routinely assume every last inch of potential grave space must have been packed with bodies).

Wrong. BBC article on an interview with C S-C in 2012

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"This revealed the existence of a number of pits across the site. Some may be the result of post-war looting, prompted by myths of buried Jewish gold, but several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites."

You have clearly not bothered to read the reports and have created an invented version of what they say. The only person you fool, is yourself.

[Nessie]

You see, you keep moving this back to Kola. I'm looking at the excavations.

Regarding Kola, given what the digs have turned up, I think he is mistaken, if not lying.

From my notes, Kola's claimed wax-fat skeleton graves are graves 3 thru 6. The ones that Mazurek and Haimi dug up are not those. They dug up sand graves and graves with one to six skeletons, but were reticent about Kola's mass graves. Therefore we don't have photos or other evidence for what is described. We can only assume and put our faith in the Holocaust on this one. Keen is right to demand substantiation.

Oh but they did;



This is from one of the 2013 digs. Spring if I recall correctly, there are others.

Remember that photo, which is right next to the Sobibor memorial, the next time someone claims that Jews do not allow excavations at the death camp sites!

[Keen]

Remember that photo, which is right next to the Sobibor memorial, the next time someone claims that Jews do not allow excavations at the death camp sites!

First off Nessie, don't you mean "ash mound"?

Second, the title of this thread is:

Why do the reality deniers [that would be you Sergay] run from this simple question?

And the question is:

A - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - ??

So are you going to answer it Nessie, or are you going to run away again like the lying coward that you are?

[Archie]

At first I thought this was a repetition of other threads, but Keen is actually raising a point that is often glossed over. The issue of "non-nefarious diggings" is something to keep in mind with the grave density discussions (where Holocaust promoters routinely assume every last inch of potential grave space must have been packed with bodies).

Wrong. BBC article on an interview with C S-C in 2012

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"This revealed the existence of a number of pits across the site. Some may be the result of post-war looting, prompted by myths of buried Jewish gold, but several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites."

You have clearly not bothered to read the reports and have created an invented version of what they say. The only person you fool, is yourself.

Straw-man!!!!

I said "often glossed over," in reference to the debates on here. I did not say there has been no mention of anything like this, ever. Hence finding some mention of this does not contradict what I said.

See below for the sort of thing I am criticizing. Notice that below you assume 100% of the soil disruptions were packed with bodies. See also your "Olympic swimming pools" nonsense in that same thread.

... You are claiming 79-109 bodies per square meter, and you are acting like we are crazy for questioning this...

I posted this simple calculation before. Kola, 21,000m3 of disturbed ground found. Hofle, 434,000 sent to Belzec. Divide that number of people into the volume of disturbed ground and you get 0.048m3 per person, or 48 litres, or 12.7 US gallons. The average adult now is 62 litres. The corpses included many children and people smaller than they are now, plus since the corpses were piled on top of each other and decomposed, they were squashed down. I can see how that many people would fit.

A cubic meter is 1000 litres. At 48 litres per person, that is 20.8 corpses per square meter.

You take and create the most outlandish, complicated calculations regarding grave density, to form your argument from incredulity. If the simplest form of calculation is done based on known figures, the result is one that is not outlandish and your argument from incredulity fails.

The mass graves of Belzec are evidenced and would fit hundreds of thousands of corpses.

[Nessie]

At first I thought this was a repetition of other threads, but Keen is actually raising a point that is often glossed over. The issue of "non-nefarious diggings" is something to keep in mind with the grave density discussions (where Holocaust promoters routinely assume every last inch of potential grave space must have been packed with bodies).

Wrong. BBC article on an interview with C S-C in 2012

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"This revealed the existence of a number of pits across the site. Some may be the result of post-war looting, prompted by myths of buried Jewish gold, but several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites."

You have clearly not bothered to read the reports and have created an invented version of what they say. The only person you fool, is yourself.

Straw-man.

I said "often glossed over," in reference to the debates on here. I did not say there has been no mention of anything like this, ever. Hence finding some mention of this does not contradict what I said.

Glossed over by whom, here? Name them and prove they gloss over the issue of grave robbers.

See below for the sort of thing I am criticizing. Notice that below you assume 100% of the soil disruptions were packed with bodies. See also your "Olympic swimming pools" nonsense in that same thread.

... You are claiming 79-109 bodies per square meter, and you are acting like we are crazy for questioning this...

I posted this simple calculation before. Kola, 21,000m3 of disturbed ground found. Hofle, 434,000 sent to Belzec. Divide that number of people into the volume of disturbed ground and you get 0.048m3 per person, or 48 litres, or 12.7 US gallons. The average adult now is 62 litres. The corpses included many children and people smaller than they are now, plus since the corpses were piled on top of each other and decomposed, they were squashed down. I can see how that many people would fit.

A cubic meter is 1000 litres. At 48 litres per person, that is 20.8 corpses per square meter.

You take and create the most outlandish, complicated calculations regarding grave density, to form your argument from incredulity. If the simplest form of calculation is done based on known figures, the result is one that is not outlandish and your argument from incredulity fails.

The mass graves of Belzec are evidenced and would fit hundreds of thousands of corpses.

I showed you the simplest calculation possible, by dividing the number of corpses estimated to buried at Belzec, by the volume Kola provided. It was way less than what you suggested. You are not crazy for questioning how many corpses were buried at any camp. What you do is exaggerate, and find causes to fuel your incredulity, and then you fallaciously argue that proves nowhere near the estimated dead, were buried there.

How many naked corpses will fit into a grave, by slowly filling that grave over a period of months, possibly also introducing something corrosive to help with decomposition (as identified at Chelmno), is something that has never been fully studied, due to the impracticalities. If only the Nazis had left the graves intact, we would have a much better idea. The best evidence we have, are Kola's borehole samples from Belzec, that found corpses decompose into a mass he described as waxy fat transformation. That makes sense, as the corpses are under pressure, they initially produce heat and by descriptions of the smell, any gasses are escaping. With no clothing, the corpses decompose into each other, squashed together. Liquids can leach away into the ground, leaving fat, bone and crushed organs, with no gaps at all. Corpse density cannot be any higher than that scenario.

I think of it like the compost bin that seems to never get full, despite constantly dumping weeds, cuttings and plant material into it, as that material decomposes down to soil. Decomposition causes a huge reduction in the volume of material put into the bin. Since I do not have your sense of out-and-out incredulity, not wanting to believe the Nazis did murder hundreds of thousands at each of the AR camps, I can, since it is evidenced to have happened, believe that hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried at the camps. Like you, I just cannot get my head round how so many corpses could fit. But, I do not illogically use that doubt, to claim it did not happen.

Once the Nazis started to cremate corpses, there was no issue over space, since the ashes and cremains would easily fit, as cremation breaks down a corpse to about 5lbs. That is about 190lbs for an average male, down to 5lbs. It would appear, from the evidence, that burying naked corpses on top of each other, so they decompose together, also causes a significant reduction in density, the biochemistry of which we know little about.

[Keen]

burying naked corpses on top of each other, so they decompose together, also causes a significant reduction in density, the biochemistry of which we know little about.

Ah yes, that magical biochemistry where jews turn into a liquid form and then magically disappear.

Something only a mentally ill / retarded cult member could espouse.

[Stubble]

Wait, did Nessie claim that there was an excavation of human remains there? I guess a pony tail can be human remains. Otherwise, they excavated clean sand, and about a cubic foot of ash.

Look at the spoil, it's almost 100% clean.

[Wetzelrad]

Glossed over by whom, here? Name them and prove they gloss over the issue of grave robbers.

Every conversation about mass graves glosses over this issue. You yourself gloss over the problem by trying to reframe it to only grave robbers.

Your linked BBC article portrays it as if the grave robbings were a minor affair, disposed of in a few words with a "but" on the end. Even that is a questionable premise in need of support, but it also leaves out any comparison with, as Keen lists them, "garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits", as well as bomb craters. Therefore Colls glossed over them.

On this exact topic, Mattogno writes:

She [Colls] also greatly underestimated the excavation activity of the post-war “gold diggers,” which she dismissed with a few lines here and there:

“Some of the pits likely represent [the result of] post-war looting but a number of larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as having housed mass graves and cremation pits.”
“Similarly, they appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity.”

In her most voluminous book, the British archaeologist devoted a specific paragraph to this problem (“Case Study 11.5: Looting at Treblinka, Poland”), but even here she treated it with extreme superficiality. Her most significant statements are these (Sturdy Colls 2015a, p. 305):

“In the area of the Treblinka extermination camp in particular, looters have continued to dig at the site since the war. On the one hand, these activities allude to belief that Jewish gold exists at the site.”

Mattogno then quotes from several sources attesting to major ground disturbances that Colls had either overlooked or decided not to give any consideration to. He concludes with this incisive remark.

Since the 25-meter-diameter crater found by Judge Łukaszkiewicz had a surface area of about 490 square meters (but for Rachel Auerbach this was only one of the “huge craters”), the largest disturbance identified by Sturdy Colls, with its 442 square meters, could comfortably fit inside it, so that the British archaeologist’s claim that the pits “appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity” is blatantly fallacious.

[Callafangers]

Oh but they did;



This is from one of the 2013 digs. Spring if I recall correctly, there are others.

"...and in this next grave, you can tragically witness Jewish flatulence buried by the Nazis, emanating from the ground... by our count, there are 12,800 farts buried here, far too many to be explained by deniers..."

Checkmate, Nazis.

[Stubble]

Oh but they did;



This is from one of the 2013 digs. Spring if I recall correctly, there are others.

"...and in this next grave, you can tragically witness Jewish flatulence buried by the Nazis, emanating from the ground... by our count, there are 12,800 farts buried here, far too many to be explained by deniers..."

Checkmate, Nazis.

Fangers, can you refresh my memory Sir?

What, pray tell, did Kola say he found in 'grave #5'? And, uh, how did he say he found it?

Because looking as the spoil there, there is a 10" layer of ash at about 2m depth, the rest is 'clean fill'.

Am I misreading the spoil? Did I misread Kola's study?

Something, appears to be, missing...

[Keen]

Because looking as the spoil there, there is a 10" layer of ash at about 5m depth, the rest is 'clean fill'.

Are you sure it's "ash"?

If so, what kind of ash is it?

[Stubble]

Because looking as the spoil there, there is a 10" layer of ash at about 5m depth, the rest is 'clean fill'.

Are you sure it's "ash"?

If so, what kind of ash is it?

Resembles 'ash'.

You see the fluffy flaky spoil next to the clean fill past the natural strata in the corner of the spoil pile that looks like about a shoe box? That appears to be ash.

Kola reports 'cremains' in the 'clean fill' excavated by the dig team. The dig team reports 'bone fragments' in that 'ash', where Kola claims corpses.

What kind of 'ash' that is hard to ascertain from my house. Looks flaky and fluffy.

The Kola study and the excavation appear to be incongruent.

[Nessie]

Glossed over by whom, here? Name them and prove they gloss over the issue of grave robbers.

Every conversation about mass graves glosses over this issue. You yourself gloss over the problem by trying to reframe it to only grave robbers.

Your linked BBC article portrays it as if the grave robbings were a minor affair, disposed of in a few words with a "but" on the end. Even that is a questionable premise in need of support, but it also leaves out any comparison with, as Keen lists them, "garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits", as well as bomb craters. Therefore Colls glossed over them.

On this exact topic, Mattogno writes:

She [Colls] also greatly underestimated the excavation activity of the post-war “gold diggers,” which she dismissed with a few lines here and there:

“Some of the pits likely represent [the result of] post-war looting but a number of larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as having housed mass graves and cremation pits.”
“Similarly, they appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity.”

In her most voluminous book, the British archaeologist devoted a specific paragraph to this problem (“Case Study 11.5: Looting at Treblinka, Poland”), but even here she treated it with extreme superficiality. Her most significant statements are these (Sturdy Colls 2015a, p. 305):

“In the area of the Treblinka extermination camp in particular, looters have continued to dig at the site since the war. On the one hand, these activities allude to belief that Jewish gold exists at the site.”

Mattogno then quotes from several sources attesting to major ground disturbances that Colls had either overlooked or decided not to give any consideration to. He concludes with this incisive remark.

Since the 25-meter-diameter crater found by Judge Łukaszkiewicz had a surface area of about 490 square meters (but for Rachel Auerbach this was only one of the “huge craters”), the largest disturbance identified by Sturdy Colls, with its 442 square meters, could comfortably fit inside it, so that the British archaeologist’s claim that the pits “appear too large to be a result of post-war looting activity” is blatantly fallacious.

You have an odd definition of glossing over, as you post examples of where grave robbing and excavations such as latrines are discussed by those who have physically examined the site.