Comments on other threads.

[Nessie]

Don't try to convince the rest of the world to accept the scale of the murders without presenting the total number of bodies or ashes allegedly recovered from cremations. I care little about the multitude of your witnesses or what transport documents say.

That is what the archaeological surveys have done. You just chose to not believe that evidence.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; this is terrifying in the context of the Holocaust. It would be the same as a court convicting a man for abusing a woman even if the genetic material found is not his, or even if such material did not exist.

Why do you fail to produce evidence for your extraordinary claim that the mass murder of millions of Jews is a hoax?

[Stubble]

He isn't making a positive claim dumb shit. The burden of proof falls on you, you are making the claim, he is disputing it.

[Archie]

That is what the archaeological surveys have done. You just chose to not believe that evidence.

You have faith that those bodies were there, despite the lack of proof. Most of us do not have such faith.

[TlsMS93]

We are not making any claims, unlike you, who want to impose a narrative without sufficiently clear elements to corroborate it.

You wouldn't even need the amount of ashes from 800,000 bodies; if you presented something on the scale of 100,000 in ashes, it would already be strong evidence of your case, as it would be doubtful that something of that magnitude would occur in an isolated camp with only deportees in very poor health, deprived of water, or starving. But not even that is presented.

If you found burnt remains, that's enough; if you found remains of bodies without signs of violence, it can only have been gassed; there is no other explanation.

[Nessie]

That is what the archaeological surveys have done. You just chose to not believe that evidence.

You have faith that those bodies were there, despite the lack of proof. Most of us do not have such faith.

That is merely your opinion. The evidence is there to prove mass graves.

You have faith that the AR camps were used for a purpose that revisionists cannot agree on and that millions of Jews somehow survived WWII, without any evidence of the millions of Jews the Nazis and their Allies arrested, still alive in 1944-5. You also have faith in a conspiracy that you have no evidence of. Your claims that I lack evidence and have faith, are to deflect from your actual lack of evidence and reliance on faith.

[Nessie]

We are not making any claims, unlike you, who want to impose a narrative without sufficiently clear elements to corroborate it.

You are variously claiming that there is insufficient evidence to prove c800,000 corpses at TII and therefore it was not a death camp. You pretend that you are making no claims, as you know that you cannot evidence your claims.

You wouldn't even need the amount of ashes from 800,000 bodies; if you presented something on the scale of 100,000 in ashes, it would already be strong evidence of your case, as it would be doubtful that something of that magnitude would occur in an isolated camp with only deportees in very poor health, deprived of water, or starving. But not even that is presented.

I disagree. In 1945 the Poles identified and surveyed and area of 2 hectares, where they found the ground littered with decomposing human remains and ash, which stank. The ground had been disturbed by grave robbers, some of whom used explosives. They excavated one of the craters and found cremains up to 7m deep. In 2011 part of the same area was subject to a geophysical survey that found 5 pits in a row. That evidence corroborates the witness descriptions of the main mass grave area. You chose not to believe that evidence. You present no evidence to the contrary, from eyewitnesses, geophysics, or any other source.

If you found burnt remains, that's enough; if you found remains of bodies without signs of violence, it can only have been gassed; there is no other explanation.

What has been found at the TII camp site, corroborates the witness narratives of the operation of the camp. Until you can produce a revised chronological evidenced narrative, you have nothing.

[Nessie]

He isn't making a positive claim dumb shit. The burden of proof falls on you, you are making the claim, he is disputing it.

Disputing a claim requires evidence, otherwise it is just unsupported opinion. If someone disputes that they were at the scene of a crime, they need to show evidence they were elsewhere, or else the court will go with the evidence they were there. If a historian disputes a claim that 100,000 died at Dresden, it is up to them to evidence what the actual death toll is, or else the claim remains that 100,000 died.

It is bizarre that you think all you need to do is dispute a claim and then you can leave it at that, job done. If you tried that at university, or during a criminal investigation, you would be the subject of at least ridicule, if not dismissal from your role.
You either don't know how to dispute the claim of mass graves at TII, or you know that you lack the evidence, hence your suggesting you have no burden of proof. If I disputed a claim that you made, that you had evidence for, and then announced you had failed in your claim and I did not need to prove anything, would you accept my claim? No you would not!

For you to prove that there are no mass graves of c800,000 at TII you need evidence from;

- eyewitnesses who worked at the camp, who describe no mass graves and mass transports back out.
- eyewitnesses from the transports who describe what happened inside the camp, that did not involve gassing.
- archaeological and geophysical surveys of areas alleged to have mass graves, that show undisturbed ground.
- documents that prove hundreds of thousands of those sent to TII, were still alive elsewhere afterwards, such as transport records.

You have a lot of potential sources of evidence and from that, you can produce nothing. Hence, your pathetic attempt to excuse yourself from the burden of proof.

[Keen]

Don't try to convince the rest of the world to accept the scale of the murders without presenting the total number of bodies or ashes allegedly recovered from cremations. I care little about the multitude of your witnesses or what transport documents say.

That is what the archaeological surveys have done. You just chose to not believe that evidence.

Nessie, is it - True. - or - False. - that; Non-nefarious diggings for such things as garbage pits, cellars, wells, latrines, septic pits, etc. - were dug at Treblinka II - ??

Nessie's answer:

True

Nessie:

Geophysics scientifically and conclusively proves that there are pits, G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54 and that they exist. But it does not prove that those pits contain human remains.

CSC:

Without intrusive activity it is not possible to conclusively determine the nature of these pits.

[Keen]

You wouldn't even need the amount of ashes from 800,000 bodies

Actually, what it's alleging is skeleton, bones, burnt bones, bone fragments and teeth, not "ashes.'

It uses the word "ashes" for a reason - to create and compound complication and confusion.

And it only needs 8 - 10 pounds of human remains (out of well over an alleged 6 million pounds) to earn this reward money:

Additionally, and independent of any other Holocaust Archaeology Hoax Challenge, a - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged “scientifically proven” mass graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people. (That is less than one tenth of one one thousandth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.)

Note: The 6 original fraudulently alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka II that were alleged by “authoritative eyewitnesses” and allegedly - “PROVEN” - to exist in the early show trials - MODEL - MAP - (but never proven to exist), are also included in the above reward offer. (A photo of one of these 6 fraudulently alleged “huge mass graves” can be seen - HERE.)

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

Note: I am not speaking for Mr. Gerdes on the amound above (8 - 10 pounds), only giving my estimate. Contact Mr. Gerdes for the actual amount needed to earn the reward.

[Keen]

You pretend that you are making no claims, as you know that you cannot evidence your claims.

Logical fallacy and a bald faced lie in one short sentence.

[Keen]

He isn't making a positive claim dumb shit. The burden of proof falls on you, you are making the claim, he is disputing it.

Disputing a claim requires evidence

No evidence is evidence:

If the physical evidence for an alleged crime that - HAS TO EXIST - for the crime to have

actually happened - DOES NOT EXIST - then the alleged crime obviously - DID NOT HAPPEN.

Ergo: The orthodox “pure extermination center” story is - A PROVEN, NONSENSICAL BIG-LIE.

The fact that you and your fellow mentally ill HC cult members cravenly run from this challenge:

Additionally, and independent of any other Holocaust Archaeology Hoax Challenge, a - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged “scientifically proven” mass graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people. (That is less than one tenth of one one thousandth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.)

Note: The 6 original fraudulently alleged “huge mass graves” of Treblinka II that were alleged by “authoritative eyewitnesses” and allegedly - “PROVEN” - to exist in the early show trials - MODEL - MAP - (but never proven to exist), are also included in the above reward offer. (A photo of one of these 6 fraudulently alleged “huge mass graves” can be seen - HERE.)

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

is not only evidence, but ipso facto proof that no mass graves have ever been proven to exist within the boundary of TII.

[Keen]

For you to prove that there are no mass graves of c800,000 at TII you need evidence from;

Look at the mentally ill pathological liar trying to shift the burden of proof!

Look at the mentally ill pathological liar trying to change the argument.

Saying that no mass graves have ever been proven to exist within the boundary of the T II camp is not the same as saying no mass graves exist within the boundaries of the camp - and of course the mentally ill pathological liar knows that.

That is why it and its fellow mentally ill HC cult members are so terrified of debating Mr. Gerdes. They know that they would be destroyed before the debate even started.

They cravenly run from the challenge to rebut this:

OPENING / FUNDAMENTAL STATEMENT OF FACT: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the bodies and burnt remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of Jews were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive, unsubstantiated allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 100 graves in question that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these five sites, in which verified human remains have been uncovered / tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

Note: Using the information presented on this website and applying legal standards used in U.S. courts, the above opening / fundamental statement of fact, which is written as, and can be defined as - a rebuttable presumption - can be - LEGALLY - ACCEPTED - AS - TRUE - in a U.S. court.

What are they waiting for?

What are they so afraid of?

[Keen]

You have a lot of potential sources of evidence and from that, you can produce nothing. Hence, your pathetic attempt to excuse yourself from the burden of proof.

Nesserto:

My standard of proof is the same as historians or the courts use, whereby an event is proven when there is sufficient corroborating verified evidence to prove it.

A mass grave is defined as a grave containing multiple human corpses, or the remains of multiple people.

Only a determined denier, who has lost grip on reality, will pretend that the corroborating evidence from multiple witnesses who describe mass graves, the aerial photo that shows disturbed ground and rectangular outlines and the site surveys that identified disturbed ground and pits in the areas of the camp that the witnesses said contained the mass graves, is not evidence to prove mass graves.

You doubt and deny the evidence I produce.

I am both a trained historian and police officer.

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

ALL the mass graves dug by the Nazis, AND the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

Proof, from multiple sources of corroborating evidence, has been produced.

You ignore corroboration. You deny the gathered evidence.

Claiming that multiple pits found by geophysics in the same part of the camp that witnesses state the main mass graves were dug, is not corroborating evidence to prove mass graves, is denial of reality.

I can point to them in the ground.

I have never had any issue with accepting the burden of proof.

[Nessie]

Callafangers, on excuses to disbelieve the witnesses, since he cannot evidence they all lied.

viewtopic.php?p=24516#p24516

Notice that all of these claims (which is all that they are) have been said more than two decades after the alleged events. No guilt-ridden 'Nazis' urgently came forward to the Allied liberators at war's end to immediately deliver this critical information even as the Nuremberg trials unfolded. Instead, these crucial facts which contradict the documents are unveiled only after decades of paradigm-building with every man on trial as a "Yes Man" to save his skin. These witnesses (Leuthold, Hollinderbäumer, Kappen, Löbbert, etc.) simply asserted that the term had been used that way "back then," without any contemporary document ever using "Baustelle" to mean exhumation or cremation.

Historians, with no evidence, are expected to believe that every single Nazis was cowed into admitting to criminal acts that did not happen. Apparently no German, no Nazi, no SS, or indeed anyone else, was ever brave enough to come forward with a revised history that involved millions of Jews not being killed and still alive in 1944-5.

The testimonies are late (20+ years after the events), contradictory on details,

It is to be expected, especially 20+ years later, that witnesses will remember differently. They do not contradict anywhere near as much as the revisionists suggest. Indeed, on the main events, they do not contradict each other at all.

.. and were given under the pressure of West German judicial proceedings that accepted the Soviet narrative of 1005 without forensic verification.

An evidence free assertion.

Where independent archaeology has been possible (e.g., at sites outside the main AR camps), the volume of cremains and bone fragments is always orders of magnitude too small to support the orthodox figures.

Mere opinion, based on a decision to disbelieve the sheer volume of disturbed ground containing cremated remains found at the camp sites.

The "coded language" allegation therefore rests on circular reliance on the very witnesses whose credibility is at issue.

Revisionists claim coded language was used. Historians determine what code language means, by gathering evidence of the events referred to. Hence, if the term special is used, as it refers to Kremas evidenced to have homicidal gas chambers, then special is code for gassing.

Revisionists obsess about credibility, when they should concentrate on establishing truthfulness and accuracy.