Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

[Keen]

The burden of proof is on YOU!!!

There is plenty of physical evidence of the murders. Here are just a few big examples:

Thousands of mass graves have been located and documented, especially in Eastern Europe, where the Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings. Babyn Yar, Ponary, Rumbula, Kamenets-Podolsky are all examples. Multiple forensic methods were used to confirm the existence of human remains, bullet casings, bones, and ashes.

Archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls found mass burial pits, layers of human ash, and burnt human bones where the Nazis dug up mass graves in Treblinka. Other archaeological digs uncovered cremation layers, teeth, and bones in Belzec and Sobibor.

In Majdanek, they found a mausoleum with 7 tons of human ash.

Canisters of Zyklon B were discovered in the camps. Were those being used to grow crops?

Maybe there were some questionable pieces of evidence here or there but there is plenty of evidence that has been collected across different locations using different methods.

There are even some photographs of mass graves from different camps.

CJ,

VI - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Blacks Law Dictionary defines - Burden of Proof - as: “The necessity or duty of affirmatively proving a fact or facts in dispute on an issue raised between the parties in a cause.” - ??

VII - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The maxims of law found in Bouvier's Law Dictionary include: “The claimant is always bound to prove: the burden of proof lies on him.” - and - “The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not he who denies.” - ??

And please don't forget to explain your "magically disappearing jew" theory or answer these questions:

III - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The alleged “eyewitnesses” to the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II holocausts - allege that jews were murdered, buried, dug up, stacked in huge piles and burned like cordwood, and their remains were then reburied into the same “huge mass graves” and covered over with “a thick layer of sand” - ??

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

[Keen]

As I mentioned in the prior post, Caroline Sturdy Colls’s forensic work at Treblinka documented many burn layers, bone
fragments, and ash pits. How do you describe what she found?

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people. http://thisisaboutscience.com/

Maps of Coll's alleged "discoveries" can be found here:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2843

15 "huge mass graves" discovered by Colls. Just think how rich you are going to be CJ, after you collect all that reward money?

I'm not an expert on this. I am recruiting help from somebody who has looked very deeply into Holocaust "revisionism".

Gee, I wonder who it was that you "recruited"? Does their name rhyme with messy?

[ConfusedJew]

Gee, I wonder who it was that you "recruited"? Does their name rhyme with messy?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I think they have an account on here but I don't know their user name or if they are active on here.

For the sake of staying on track, I'll refocus this to the demographic collapse because I can't possibly figure out a way how you guys could reasonably explain that away.

After that we can move onto the credibility of the eyewitness accounts.

[Callafangers]

For the sake of staying on track, I'll refocus this to the demographic collapse because I can't possibly figure out a way how you guys could reasonably explain that away.

If you're talking about the impression of Jews 'disappearing', then you are talking about post-war and wartime diffusion and dispersion. Jewish movement was extraordinary throughout this period, with Jews sifting through thousands of camps across Europe and then typically leaving Europe into any of some 60+ different countries around the world, typically with no means whatsoever to contact 'lost' relatives whom they mutually assumed had been 'gassed'.

If this is not what you're referring to, do elaborate.

[Keen]

For the sake of staying on track, I'll refocus this to the demographic collapse because I can't possibly figure out a way how you guys could reasonably explain that away.

So just like Nessie, you are afraid to deal with the issue of the physical evidence that would have to exist if the orthodox story of the holohoax is true.

And just like Nessie, you run away from the fact that the "convergence of the lack of physical evidence" method has proven that the "huge mass grave" stories are lies that only a child could believe.

And just like Nessie, you refuse to accept the burden of proof, which lies with you, and answer simple yet important / relevent questions.

IOW, you refuse to defend your beliefs and alleged statement of facts in open debate.

Some things never change.

[Stubble]

If we are covering the 'missing persons', there are some specific threads.

Which cohort is of paramount interest to you?

[Keen]

CJ:

I will look at the strongest "revisionist" arguments there are out there myself. There are like a million different arguments though so it is better if I can take a look at the very strongest claims first. If they don't hold up, the less strong arguments almost certainly...

For the sake of staying on track, I'll refocus this to the demographic collapse...

Since tangible physical evidence has the strongest evidentiary value, and you wanted to look at the strongest arguments first, and THEN look at the less strong "arguments", why are you now running away from the issue of physical evidence? Especially after you made numerous statements of fact alleging the scientific discovery of huge amounts of alleged tangible physical evidence?

You didn't get cold feet after being challenged to accept your burden of proof, did you?

[ConfusedJew]

Since tangible physical evidence has the strongest evidentiary value, and you wanted to look at the strongest arguments first, and THEN look at the less strong "arguments", why are you now running away from the issue of physical evidence? Especially after you made numerous statements of fact alleging the scientific discovery of huge amounts of alleged tangible physical evidence?

You didn't get cold feet after being challenged to accept your burden of proof, did you?

No I didn't. We can come back to that later. But like I said, I presented you with what I find to be a credible archaeological study that showed evidence for the existence of cremation and mass burials of Holocaust victims. You disagree but on this forum you aren't supposed to just simply disagree without saying what you disagree with and why. Otherwise, there's nothing I can do to respond to that.

[Keen]

I presented you with what I find to be a credible archaeological study that showed evidence for the existence of cremation and mass burials of Holocaust victims.

No, you didn't. You "presented" this forum with numerous statements of fact:

There is plenty of physical evidence of the murders. Here are just a few big examples:

Thousands of mass graves have been located and documented, especially in Eastern Europe, where the Einsatzgruppen carried out mass shootings. Babyn Yar, Ponary, Rumbula, Kamenets-Podolsky are all examples. Multiple forensic methods were used to confirm the existence of human remains, bullet casings, bones, and ashes.

Archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls found mass burial pits, layers of human ash, and burnt human bones where the Nazis dug up mass graves in Treblinka. Other archaeological digs uncovered cremation layers, teeth, and bones in Belzec and Sobibor.

In Majdanek, they found a mausoleum with 7 tons of human ash.

Canisters of Zyklon B were discovered in the camps. Were those being used to grow crops?

Maybe there were some questionable pieces of evidence here or there but there is plenty of evidence that has been collected across different locations using different methods.

There are even some photographs of mass graves from different camps.

As I mentioned in the prior post, Caroline Sturdy Colls’s forensic work at Treblinka documented many burn layers, bone
fragments, and ash pits.

And then ran away when challenged to accept your burden of proof.

CJ:

You disagree but on this forum you aren't supposed to just simply disagree without saying what you disagree with and why.

Another lie. Did I make the following statement:

The "convergence of the lack of physical evidence" method has proven that the "huge mass graves" alleged at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II do not exist. (That is, unless you believe a grave containing the remains of 5 people can be defined as "huge").

Yes or No?

BTW CJ, since you seem so concerned about what one is supposed to do on this forum; here is something from the rules:

"No Dodging" If you make a controversial claim without support, others have the right to request support.

CJ, would you like me to repost all of the questions that I have posed to you that you have dodged?

[Keen]

You didn't get cold feet after being challenged to accept your burden of proof, did you?

No I didn't.

So you should have no qualms about answering all the questions I have asked you. Let's start with these:

CJ,

VI - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Blacks Law Dictionary defines - Burden of Proof - as: “The necessity or duty of affirmatively proving a fact or facts in dispute on an issue raised between the parties in a cause.” - ??

VII - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The maxims of law found in Bouvier's Law Dictionary include: “The claimant is always bound to prove: the burden of proof lies on him.” - and - “The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not he who denies.” - ??

III - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The alleged “eyewitnesses” to the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II holocausts - allege that jews were murdered, buried, dug up, stacked in huge piles and burned like cordwood, and their remains were then reburied into the same “huge mass graves” and covered over with “a thick layer of sand” - ??

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

[ConfusedJew]

For the sake of staying on track, I'll refocus this to the demographic collapse because I can't possibly figure out a way how you guys could reasonably explain that away.

If you're talking about the impression of Jews 'disappearing', then you are talking about post-war and wartime diffusion and dispersion. Jewish movement was extraordinary throughout this period, with Jews sifting through thousands of camps across Europe and then typically leaving Europe into any of some 60+ different countries around the world, typically with no means whatsoever to contact 'lost' relatives whom they mutually assumed had been 'gassed'.

If this is not what you're referring to, do elaborate.

Yes, this is what I'm talking about but diffusion and dispersion can't account for the reported drop in population of 2/3 of the European Jewish population (6 million).

Here's what I see are the problems with the dispersion and diffusion hypothesis.

Six million Jews from Europe disappeared from 1939 to 1945. There's no documentation of millions arriving in new countries between 1941–45. It doesn't explain the massive depopulation of entire Jewish communities (e.g., Warsaw, Vilna, Salonika). Allied search efforts after the war were unable to find any trace of most deportees. If people had survived the war, they would be counted in censuses or community rosters around the world. There was no major demographic rebound of Jews. The historical documentation confirms deportation to killing centers, not resettlement or migration.

Dispersion is not supported by population records, migration data, or survivor research. The claim requires millions to disappear silently, with no arrival records, no new communities, and no family contact, which is implausible and contradicted by primary evidence.

Take Poland for example. Three million Jews disappeared from Poland and there were no records of millions of Jews fleeing Poland and entering other countries during 1941–45. No postwar Polish-speaking Jewish enclaves appearing elsewhere that could absorb even a fraction of 3 million people. Relief organizations like the Red Cross, HIAS, and the Jewish Agency had global reach and never recovered these missing people. Postwar census records in North America, Latin America, Palestine/Israel, and the USSR do not show a mysterious influx that could account for the missing millions. Of the 3.3 million Polish Jews documented at the beginning of the war, only 250,000 were found after the war.

Many of my ancestors came from Poland and a few of them emigrated to the US before the war started but many stayed behind and were killed.

[ConfusedJew]

"No Dodging" If you make a controversial claim without support, others have the right to request support.

CJ, would you like me to repost all of the questions that I have posed to you that you have dodged?

It's hard for me to keep track of all these arguments being thrown at me since I need to research them in real time. I'm not dodging anything but I'm prioritizing on one argument.

Don't accuse me of lying without very strong evidence, especially because you are wrong about that. One of you, maybe it wasn't you, rejected one of my arguments out of pocket without elaborating. You are bombarding me with incoherent posts.

Please focus on the demographic collapse and we will come back to these other issues later.

Thanks.

EDIT: For the record, I was responding the argument that the 6 million figure was not legitimate because it was already being used in the middle of the war. All the post-war "calculations" were anchored in a predetermined figure. In late 1942 you see Zionist groups saying things like "2M Jews have already been killed, we must save the remaining 4M!" And by 1944 you already see people saying 6M HAD died. There's no way that could have been determined that early.

There is no reason to believe that any of the casualty estimates were "anchored" in numbers that were used in the middle of the war. All of the estimates that I have seen, used different methodologies, had nothing to do with those random estimates. The burden of proof is on the claimant to show that there are substantive facts to support the claim that any of the estimate, let along all of them, were "anchored" on some other number.

[Keen]

You've emulated your mentor well CJ.

I'm sure Nessie is proud of the way you have cravenly dodged questions and avoided accepting your burden of proof.

CJ:

It's hard for me to keep track of all these arguments being thrown at me since I need to research them in real time.

How hard is it to answer 4 simple yes or no questions CJ? How about we narrow them down to just one for the time being?

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

Or do you need time to research the question before answering it?

[ConfusedJew]

You've emulated your mentor well CJ.

I'm sure Nessie is proud of the way you have cravenly dodged questions and avoided accepting your burden of proof.

CJ:

It's hard for me to keep track of all these arguments being thrown at me since I need to research them in real time.

How hard is it to answer 4 simple yes or no questions CJ? How about we narrow them down to just one for the time being?

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. What is this an argument or counterargument to?

[Keen]

IV - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Covering millions upon millions of pounds of bones and teeth with “a thick layer of sand” makes them magically disappear - ??

CJ:

I honestly don't even know what you are talking about. What is this an argument or counterargument to?

This is the same guy who just tried to lecture me on the forum rules!

And who made this allegation:

Nazi cremation and ash-dispersal policies, combined with intentional site destruction, were specifically designed to eliminate remains. Again, archaeological excavations have still recovered cremation pits, human ash layers, thousands of bone fragments, and even gas chamber foundations.

Nessie is soooo proud of you CJ.