Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

[Callafangers]

Here are some more:
https://archive.org/stream/TheCompleteL ... y_djvu.txt

Just for fun, I asked an AI to review and boil down this list above. Key points:

I suggest a revised estimate of 600-800 distinct Jewish expulsions as more likely accurate compared to the original 1,030, accounting for duplication, misclassification, and speculative entries.

[...]

According to the stated or inferred justifications by the leaders and people of expelling nations, the top 5 reasons for the 600-800 likely valid Jewish expulsions are:
1. Economic Exploitation and Usury (40-50%): Perceived financial dominance or debt burdens.
2. Religious Differences and Heresy (20-30%): Refusal to convert or threat to religious unity.
3. Allegations of Ritual Murder and Host Desecration (10-15%): Baseless [?] accusations inciting violence.
4. Political Subversion and Disloyalty (10-15%): Accusations of aiding enemies or subversion.
5. Social and Cultural Isolation or Provocation (5-10%): Perceived refusal to assimilate or provocative behaviors.

So, a fair estimate of actual, distinct expulsions of Jews from nations in history is somewhere around ~700 instances, with ~70% of such instances reportedly due to subversive exploitation/usury (theft), disloyalty (treason), and provocation (troublemaking).

[Archie]

There are so many that are spreading that are false. Two massive examples are the idea that Jews have been expelled from 109 countries (which is untrue). There are also cherry picked and even false quotes from the Talmud that are either fake or very misrepresented. Thanks to Elon, these quotes are getting massive circulation. The Protocols of Zion is also a known fabrication and partially plagiarized from other sources but it let to Jews getting murdered in pogroms.

Imagine if people kept throwing tons of false and severe criticisms of you non-stop as has been done for centuries. How would you handle that?

I guess you could argue over the definition of "country" and dispute the exact number, but Jewish expulsions are certainly "a thing." Some of most famous ones would be the 1290 expulsion from England and the 1492 expulsion from Spain. And of course Germany in the 1930s. In my mind, getting hung up on the precise number is losing the forest for the trees. The key point is how Jews have consistently clashed with their Gentile neighbors.

Someone on the old forum compiled a list. I can't personally vouch for each one, but it has sources if you would like to do that.
https://archive.codohforum.com/20230609 ... cd4d5.html

Obviously, most random dudes on Twitter are on Talmud scholars, so they will get things wrong when discussing the Talmud. But there is good reason to say that the Jews have viewed "the goyim" as lesser and that this has been a significant aspect of Jew-Gentile relations.

The Protocols text is regarded by most as inauthentic. But I would argue that even if we treat it as a work of fiction or political philosophy, the caricature it portrays is distinctly recognizable. And I think that is why it caught on after the Russian Revolution. People saw its predictions as relevant and surprisingly accurate.

But I thought you said you wanted to talk about demographics. Ok, so why aren't you posting about demographics? Let's see what you've got.

[ConfusedJew]

I did not mention a thread.

You said that Grok would agree with you so if you can get it to do that, you will save us both a lot of time.

Wikipedia alone lists almost 100 (it is admittedly incomplete):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion ... es_of_Jews

Here are some more:
https://archive.org/stream/TheCompleteL ... y_djvu.txt

I'll look into this but this is largely misleading. Many of these are from the same country or from small towns rather than a country. And they go back thousands of years.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/rrMtJOf3rLhwcBYOYdTw6ZDtL

There being some quotes from the Talmud that are paraphrased or even falsified has nothing to do with the broader tropes (narratives) against Jews. There are many extremely-problematic quotes from the Talmud, so we would need to address those case-by-case. There is no shortage of them.

The overwhelming majority of these are false. There is an abundance of false quotes from the Talmud. And even in the exceptional case where they are accurate, they are still being misinterpreted. Also the Talmud isn't practiced anymore by the vast majority of Jews. Maybe 10% of ethnic Jews even know what the Talmud actually is.

As for the Protocols, its origins remain under discussion and debate and even Hitler suggested their origin is not so important -- what is important is the fact that this document has evidently become prophetic in predicting how Jews would end up behaving, even a century later. Even if its origins are questionable, its content remains very relevant.

It's just made up so the content is relevant only to the extent that they are manufactured lies which have led to the deaths and persecution of Jews. It was plagiarized from pre-existing fiction.

https://x.com/i/grok/share/iCsXKOc1VgORqWzDuLa2DcvxB

Imagine if you were one of hundreds of nations just trying to self-determine and develop a great quality of life for your people but a foreign tribe keeps injecting (bribing, deceiving, promoting vices, and lending at interest) its way into your upper echelon only to collapse your economy and create conflicts benefiting only their tribe, at the expense and suffering of your nation.

How would you handle that? Would your 'hate' toward them be for no reason at all?

What does that mean to you to self-determine? Jews are not a foreign tribe. The vast majority of Jews are at least 2nd or 3rd generation Americans. Even before that, Jews have been living in the West for thousands of years and were foundational in creating the West in that Christianity came from the Jews.

Ad hominids? No, it's simply saying that your approach here has not reflected anything I would consider typical of 'fascination'. I think AreYouSirius' previous assessment was nail-on-the-head. You're working an agenda. We've seen it many times before.

Well that's your opinion. If you don't like something specific about my approach, feel free to critique that, and I feel your criticism is reasonable then I will change my behavior.

[ConfusedJew]

What a retard!

That's like saying: What if the "huge mass graves" containing the remains of over 2.1 million jews are so small you can't see them, or the Nazis put an invisibility cloak over them so they couldn't be detected?

What a retard!

Since your best response is to respond with slurs and insults rather than addressing the claims, your privilege to have me respond to you is revoked again.

I said I would not address physical evidence claims right now, I will get to that later, but you are misrepresenting my argument. You simply don't have the capacity to properly interpret the evidence that already exists. I was just showing that your argument in general was flawed and fallacious.

[ConfusedJew]

According to the stated or inferred justifications by the leaders and people of expelling nations, the top 5 reasons for the 600-800 likely valid Jewish expulsions are:
1. Economic Exploitation and Usury (40-50%): Perceived financial dominance or debt burdens.
2. Religious Differences and Heresy (20-30%): Refusal to convert or threat to religious unity.
3. Allegations of Ritual Murder and Host Desecration (10-15%): Baseless [?] accusations inciting violence.
4. Political Subversion and Disloyalty (10-15%): Accusations of aiding enemies or subversion.
5. Social and Cultural Isolation or Provocation (5-10%): Perceived refusal to assimilate or provocative behaviors.

So, a fair estimate of actual, distinct expulsions of Jews from nations in history is somewhere around ~700 instances, with ~70% of such instances reportedly due to subversive exploitation/usury (theft), disloyalty (treason), and provocation (troublemaking).
[/quote]

I'll have to respond to this is more depth later since I am just beginning to study Medieval European history. But note that the claim is that it was due to perceived financial dominance or debt burdens rather than actual. Where the exact truth lies will have to be determined later because I'm not well researched on that enough yet.

A large part of it was that the Christians wanted the Jews to convert and accept Jesus as their messiah which they didn't do because they didn't feel that he met the standards that were laid out in their religious scriptures and traditions.

I don't know if you are a religious Christian or not, but that is a debate that can be had.

Many expulsions were from towns so not entire countries and possibly only applied to a small number of Jews. Unless you have something specific of interest to add, we should come back to that later.

[ConfusedJew]

I guess you could argue over the definition of "country" and dispute the exact number, but Jewish expulsions are certainly "a thing." Some of most famous ones would be the 1290 expulsion from England and the 1492 expulsion from Spain. And of course Germany in the 1930s. In my mind, getting hung up on the precise number is losing the forest for the trees. The key point is how Jews have consistently clashed with their Gentile neighbors.

A lot of minority groups are persecuted by dominant cultures throughout history. What makes Jews unique in that regard is that there were very intense religious differences and the dominant Christian culture at the time refused to let the Jews practice their religion in the way that they saw fit.

Many cultures have been wiped out or absorbed by more dominant cultures. This happened to Greece even. For whatever reason, the Jews have persisted in holding firm to their religious beliefs and cultural independence for thousands of years. Many other religions often just convert.

Obviously, most random dudes on Twitter are on Talmud scholars, so they will get things wrong when discussing the Talmud. But there is good reason to say that the Jews have viewed "the goyim" as lesser and that this has been a significant aspect of Jew-Gentile relations.

The problem isn't that they are not scholars, it's that they have no idea what they are looking at and a lot of false memes spread virulently like black propaganda. People often accept these as true when they simply aren't.

I don't think that Jews have historically viewed "goyim" as lesser but that's a deep question that is worth researching and discussing. The Jews did see themselves as obligated to uphold hundreds of laws that the gentiles didn't but a ton of those quotes that say things about how they viewed gentiles is just wrong or misrepresented. In Judaism, the gentiles are supposedly responsible for following just seven Noahide laws (you can easily google this) and even that is unfair in my opinion, but people get the facts on that wrong very often.

The Protocols text is regarded by most as inauthentic. But I would argue that even if we treat it as a work of fiction or political philosophy, the caricature it portrays is distinctly recognizable. And I think that is why it caught on after the Russian Revolution. People saw its predictions as relevant and surprisingly accurate.

It is human nature to fear and mistrust anybody or anything that you see might have power that you don't understand. Just because the meme caught on doesn't mean that it was accurate or even remotely fair. These people didn't see the memes as accurately but they provided and explanation for what they perceived as mysterious. This is how any kind of false conspiracy theory spreads. There is always a degree of fear or stress plus an information gap (mystery).

But I thought you said you wanted to talk about demographics. Ok, so why aren't you posting about demographics? Let's see what you've got.

I will definitely get to it. I will look at Hilberg's methodology and then we can dissect that in great detail but I need to have a chance to review that and I'm doing a lot of other work. I've always been curious how they came up with the 6 million estimate myself so it will be interesting to see your pushback on it.

[Stubble]

Did he, just say jews don't practice from the talmud?

Perhaps this is because people haven't been precise. The babylonian talmud. The babylonian talmud CJ.

[Keen]

What a retard!

That's like saying: What if the "huge mass graves" containing the remains of over 2.1 million jews are so small you can't see them, or the Nazis put an invisibility cloak over them so they couldn't be detected?

What a retard!

Since your best response is to respond with slurs and insults rather than addressing the claims, your privilege to have me respond to you is revoked again.

I said I would not address physical evidence claims right now, I will get to that later, but you are misrepresenting my argument. You simply don't have the capacity to properly interpret the evidence that already exists. I was just showing that your argument in general was flawed and fallacious.

What a retard!

[Stubble]

Keen, be careful, you're gonna get a spanking and get put in the box.

[Keen]

Keen, be careful, you're gonna get a spanking and get put in the box.

What else can a guy say about this:

What if the elephant is wearing an invisibility cloak? Or what if the elepWhant is so small that you simply can't detect it or don't have the right tools to detect it?

CJ, what if the Germans used an inisibility cloak on the jews that you looking for?

That would explain them "magically disappearing," wouldn't it?



I didn't know that magic invisibility cloaks were used in the convergence of evidence method.

What can't you "prove" with "evidence" like that?

[Archie]

I guess you could argue over the definition of "country" and dispute the exact number, but Jewish expulsions are certainly "a thing." Some of most famous ones would be the 1290 expulsion from England and the 1492 expulsion from Spain. And of course Germany in the 1930s. In my mind, getting hung up on the precise number is losing the forest for the trees. The key point is how Jews have consistently clashed with their Gentile neighbors.

A lot of minority groups are persecuted by dominant cultures throughout history. What makes Jews unique in that regard is that there were very intense religious differences and the dominant Christian culture at the time refused to let the Jews practice their religion in the way that they saw fit.

Many cultures have been wiped out or absorbed by more dominant cultures. This happened to Greece even. For whatever reason, the Jews have persisted in holding firm to their religious beliefs and cultural independence for thousands of years. Many other religions often just convert.

You said

There are so many that are spreading that are false. Two massive examples are the idea that Jews have been expelled from 109 countries (which is untrue).

Now it sounds like you are shifting to providing a benign explanation for the expulsions? But you just got done saying the expulsions were a myth. So ... are you admitting you were wrong about that? Or is there still some factual disagreement?

Religious differences and intolerance is a common explanation Jews give for their conflicts with their neighbors but I don't think it's the main reason. And especially not as you move closer to the present.

All of this should really go in the Jewish history section of the forum.

[Archie]

What a retard!

That's like saying: What if the "huge mass graves" containing the remains of over 2.1 million jews are so small you can't see them, or the Nazis put an invisibility cloak over them so they couldn't be detected?

What a retard!

Since your best response is to respond with slurs and insults rather than addressing the claims, your privilege to have me respond to you is revoked again.

I said I would not address physical evidence claims right now, I will get to that later, but you are misrepresenting my argument. You simply don't have the capacity to properly interpret the evidence that already exists. I was just showing that your argument in general was flawed and fallacious.

What a retard!

Keen, let's not try to bully people off the forum. Please stick to factual rebuttals.

[ConfusedJew]

Now it sounds like you are shifting to providing a benign explanation for the expulsions? But you just got done saying the expulsions were a myth. So ... are you admitting you were wrong about that? Or is there still some factual disagreement?

Religious differences and intolerance is a common explanation Jews give for their conflicts with their neighbors but I don't think it's the main reason. And especially not as you move closer to the present.

All of this should really go in the Jewish history section of the forum.

I didn't say it was a myth, it is factually untrue that Jews were expelled from 109 countries. The Grok link that I provided shows that Jews have been expelled, as many people have throughout history, but that claim is greatly exaggerated to weaponize against Jews.

Many of those items in the Wikipedia article are not about expulsions even but Jews have been conquered and taken as slaves by many ancient civilizations.

Religious intolerance is a huge reason that Jews have been persecuted and mistrusted by Christians and Europe for a very long time. After the Enlightenment, the West started to look at things from a more secular perspective and respected different religious viewpoints. But a lot of Christians have historically persecuted Jews because they blamed all Jews, even the ones who were many generations removed from the fact, as being responsible for the death of their messiah.

We can make another thread for that in that section but this thread for me is really just to get a survey for what people believe in here. I can make more subject specific threads when I am well researched enough.


Here's a short video that explains the truth and falsehoods within the 109 countries claim. You may disagree with some of that video too which is fine but that can then be dissected.

[Callafangers]

Here's a short video that explains the truth and falsehoods within the 109 countries claim. You may disagree with some of that video too which is fine but that can then be dissected.

I can always appreciate more Jewish media adding a Jewish-apologetic spin on history.

The video’s claim that 'systemic prejudice' caused the expulsions oversimplifies history to the point of absurdity and doesn’t invalidate concerns about Jewish behavior as a central factor. The recurring pattern of expulsion across hundreds of independent nations over centuries -- some ~700 distinct events (note: the video does NOT challenge the overall number of expulsions) -- suggests that our earlier interpretation is correct, even if expulsions were sometimes shaped by regional biases:

According to the stated or inferred justifications by the leaders and people of expelling nations, the top 5 reasons for the 600-800 likely valid Jewish expulsions are:

1. Economic Exploitation and Usury (40-50%): Perceived financial dominance or debt burdens.
2. Religious Differences and Heresy (20-30%): Refusal to convert or threat to religious unity.
3. Allegations of Ritual Murder and Host Desecration (10-15%): Baseless [?] accusations inciting violence.
4. Political Subversion and Disloyalty (10-15%): Accusations of aiding enemies or subversion.
5. Social and Cultural Isolation or Provocation (5-10%): Perceived refusal to assimilate or provocative behaviors.

So, a fair estimate of actual, distinct expulsions of Jews from nations in history is somewhere around ~700 instances, with ~70% of such instances reportedly due to subversive exploitation/usury (theft), disloyalty (treason), and provocation (troublemaking).

Many of the historical records show specific grievances explicitly, so it isn't just 'mass hysteria' of the kind, "let's blame our problems on the Jews for no reason at all! They'll be our scapegoat!" (which has never made any sense).

The timeline here is also over the course of thousands of years, across vast distances. Jews had every opportunity to establish good relations with their neighbors, and there is no question that their frequent wealth and opportunities might have given them the ability to do so. Yet somehow, they developed an extremely bad reputation over and over and over again. To claim that the host nations were always just petty, sadistic people who "took out their problems" on the Jews is the sickest form of mass 'gaslighting' I have ever encountered.

[Archie]

Ok, I'm starting to get bombsaway vibes from this clown. Same style of "argumentation."