The Pyres of Dresden

[Stubble]

No, since the pyre method is not to reduce corpses to ashes to return to relatives. At the AR camps, it was done to prevent body counts, identification and establishing cause of death, so it did not need to be to fine ash. The excavation photos from 1945, showing many bones, and descriptions of partial remains, show that the cremations were not that thorough. So there is no problem for the history, just for the so-called revisionists.

Wait -- hold the phone. Are you saying that you acknowledge the cremations at AR camps were "not that thorough"?

Let's just get this on-the-record. Say it louder for those in the back.

HC Blog also makes that concession, and Bombsaway will if he isn't busy telling you the dead were reduced with a squirt of lighter fluid.

[Nessie]

No, since the pyre method is not to reduce corpses to ashes to return to relatives. At the AR camps, it was done to prevent body counts, identification and establishing cause of death, so it did not need to be to fine ash. The excavation photos from 1945, showing many bones, and descriptions of partial remains, show that the cremations were not that thorough. So there is no problem for the history, just for the so-called revisionists.

Wait -- hold the phone. Are you saying that you acknowledge the cremations at AR camps were "not that thorough"?

Let's just get this on-the-record. Say it louder for those in the back.

HC Blog also makes that concession, and Bombsaway will if he isn't busy telling you the dead were reduced with a squirt of lighter fluid.

It is not a concession. It is what was evidenced, to have happened, just as the Ohrdruf pyre evidences incomplete cremations. Incomplete cremations, require less fuel. Now there is a concession for so-called revisionists to make.

[TlsMS93]

It doesn't matter if it was a complete cremation or not, even for incomplete cremations, the estimated amount of material such as wood would be gigantic in the Reinhardt camps; the Australian experiment made this quite clear.

Still trying to prove that a photo of a moment answers our questions? Good luck.

[Nessie]

It doesn't matter if it was a complete cremation or not, even for incomplete cremations, the estimated amount of material such as wood would be gigantic in the Reinhardt camps; the Australian experiment made this quite clear.

Still trying to prove that a photo of a moment answers our questions? Good luck.

The photos of the pyres at Dresden and Ohrdruf, prove that a pyre, set with wood below rails and corpses on the rails, once set alight, will burn without having to add additional wood or other fuel, to produce a partial cremation, with some ashes and some body parts. A mix of ashes and body parts are what was found buried at the AR camps.

[TlsMS93]

Here we have a madman who thinks that a photo proves an entire process.

[TlsMS93]

The results of this study, pertinent to the historical context analyzed here, can be summarized as follows:

1 - Self-sustaining burning of corpses on open-air pyres is not possible. In all circumstances investigated, corpses are always heat sinks in a fire, therefore, they require fuel to burn.

2 - The denser the bodies are packed in a pyre, the less efficient the cremation. Best results are obtained with only a single layer of bodies, with the bodies spaced to allow the fire to fully develop and the flames to engulf the body.

3 - Fuel efficiency is highest when only a portion of the firewood is placed under the corpse, and the remainder is added gradually as cremation progresses, to keep the fire alive and the corpse engulfed. Under these conditions, "a minimum of 5 times the body weight in dry wood is required to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

4 - If all the wood is piled under the corpse and the pyre is left unattended, the fuel requirement increases to a "minimum of nine times the body weight in dry wood, which is necessary to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

5 - A complete destruction of nearly 100% would require additional firewood.

This is the basis of the experiment by Yermàn et al.

Considering that most of the corpses had been buried recently, they would have less fat to aid in cremation compared to those recently sacrificed during gassing. Therefore, their bodies would be relatively more moist than flammable in fat content, requiring more fuel than if they were recently killed.

So, little wood or infinite benzene, or whatever, needs to be proven by witnesses and documents, which is not the case, unless the scale of cremation and the nature of that cremation are infinitesimal rather than total, collapsing the entire narrative of a genocide of millions.

[Nessie]

Here we have a madman who thinks that a photo proves an entire process.

Strawman fallacy. I think that the photos from both Dresden, and Ohrdruf, plus all the witness descriptions, prove that a pyre will work, whereby wood is placed under metal rails and the corpses on top. Set the wood alight and it produces enough heat to cause the corpses to catch fire, which then burn down to ashes and larger burnt body parts.

[Nessie]

The results of this study, pertinent to the historical context analyzed here, can be summarized as follows:

1 - Self-sustaining burning of corpses on open-air pyres is not possible. In all circumstances investigated, corpses are always heat sinks in a fire, therefore, they require fuel to burn.

That claim is not backed up by the Dresden and Ohrdruf photos, which show how the wood is set alight under the corpses, the fire spreads to the corpses, which then burn down to some ashes and larger body parts.

2 - The denser the bodies are packed in a pyre, the less efficient the cremation. Best results are obtained with only a single layer of bodies, with the bodies spaced to allow the fire to fully develop and the flames to engulf the body.

The way the Dresden pyres were set in the photos, and from witness descriptions of the AR camp pyres, piling the corpses worked.

3 - Fuel efficiency is highest when only a portion of the firewood is placed under the corpse, and the remainder is added gradually as cremation progresses, to keep the fire alive and the corpse engulfed. Under these conditions, "a minimum of 5 times the body weight in dry wood is required to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

4 - If all the wood is piled under the corpse and the pyre is left unattended, the fuel requirement increases to a "minimum of nine times the body weight in dry wood, which is necessary to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

The photos of the Dresden pyres and descriptions of the AR camp pyres, prove that a pyre set as seen, will burn itself, with no additional need for wood.

5 - A complete destruction of nearly 100% would require additional firewood.

That is correct, as the pyres did not completely cremate the corpses down to ashes.

This is the basis of the experiment by Yermàn et al.

You say that, because you do not want to accept the evidence from the photos of, and witnesses to pyres.

Considering that most of the corpses had been buried recently, they would have less fat to aid in cremation compared to those recently sacrificed during gassing. Therefore, their bodies would be relatively more moist than flammable in fat content, requiring more fuel than if they were recently killed.

So, little wood or infinite benzene, or whatever, needs to be proven by witnesses and documents, which is not the case, unless the scale of cremation and the nature of that cremation are infinitesimal rather than total, collapsing the entire narrative of a genocide of millions.

That is the logically flawed argument from incredulity. Just because you cannot work out how the pyres were possible, does not therefore mean there were no pyres. There is evidence from photos, eyewitnesses and circumstances, of mass pyres.

[TlsMS93]

Strawman fallacy. I think that the photos from both Dresden, and Ohrdruf, plus all the witness descriptions, prove that a pyre will work, whereby wood is placed under metal rails and the corpses on top. Set the wood alight and it produces enough heat to cause the corpses to catch fire, which then burn down to ashes and larger burnt body parts.

Heat? That's temperature, not energy, to reduce bodies to ash. The Australian experiment made it clear how much wood relative to the bodies would be needed for this, both in terms of self-sustaining and gradually added wood. Left to its own devices, the need for wood is many times greater than that added gradually.

In other words, if you argue that the Nazis knew by crystal ball gazing how much wood would be needed for cremation and left it there on its own, your problem only increases because more wood would be needed in this self-sustaining process.

[TlsMS93]

The results of this study, pertinent to the historical context analyzed here, can be summarized as follows:

1 - Self-sustaining burning of corpses on open-air pyres is not possible. In all circumstances investigated, corpses are always heat sinks in a fire, therefore, they require fuel to burn.

That claim is not backed up by the Dresden and Ohrdruf photos, which show how the wood is set alight under the corpses, the fire spreads to the corpses, which then burn down to some ashes and larger body parts.

2 - The denser the bodies are packed in a pyre, the less efficient the cremation. Best results are obtained with only a single layer of bodies, with the bodies spaced to allow the fire to fully develop and the flames to engulf the body.

The way the Dresden pyres were set in the photos, and from witness descriptions of the AR camp pyres, piling the corpses worked.

3 - Fuel efficiency is highest when only a portion of the firewood is placed under the corpse, and the remainder is added gradually as cremation progresses, to keep the fire alive and the corpse engulfed. Under these conditions, "a minimum of 5 times the body weight in dry wood is required to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

4 - If all the wood is piled under the corpse and the pyre is left unattended, the fuel requirement increases to a "minimum of nine times the body weight in dry wood, which is necessary to achieve near-complete destruction of all organic matter (<10%)."

The photos of the Dresden pyres and descriptions of the AR camp pyres, prove that a pyre set as seen, will burn itself, with no additional need for wood.

5 - A complete destruction of nearly 100% would require additional firewood.

That is correct, as the pyres did not completely cremate the corpses down to ashes.

This is the basis of the experiment by Yermàn et al.

You say that, because you do not want to accept the evidence from the photos of, and witnesses to pyres.

Considering that most of the corpses had been buried recently, they would have less fat to aid in cremation compared to those recently sacrificed during gassing. Therefore, their bodies would be relatively more moist than flammable in fat content, requiring more fuel than if they were recently killed.

So, little wood or infinite benzene, or whatever, needs to be proven by witnesses and documents, which is not the case, unless the scale of cremation and the nature of that cremation are infinitesimal rather than total, collapsing the entire narrative of a genocide of millions.

That is the logically flawed argument from incredulity. Just because you cannot work out how the pyres were possible, does not therefore mean there were no pyres. There is evidence from photos, eyewitnesses and circumstances, of mass pyres.

You can't prove that the cremated remains of millions of corpses are in the mass graves of these camps, nor do the Polish and Jewish authorities want to establish this because they know it didn't happen. Trump says the dollar is king, the Holocaust is also king; without it, Israel and the Jewish community will collapse in their soft power.

Just because there are cremated remains in these camps doesn't mean the narrative about these camps is absolutely correct. As I said, the evidence proves that the scale of cremation in these camps was a fraction of the alleged death toll, sufficient only for the sick, malnourished, and weak people who died along the way.

Turn over the entire soil of these camps and bring me ashes equivalent to the alleged death toll, and I will bow down and worship you forever.

[Nessie]

Strawman fallacy. I think that the photos from both Dresden, and Ohrdruf, plus all the witness descriptions, prove that a pyre will work, whereby wood is placed under metal rails and the corpses on top. Set the wood alight and it produces enough heat to cause the corpses to catch fire, which then burn down to ashes and larger burnt body parts.

Heat? That's temperature, not energy, to reduce bodies to ash. The Australian experiment made it clear how much wood relative to the bodies would be needed for this, both in terms of self-sustaining and gradually added wood. Left to its own devices, the need for wood is many times greater than that added gradually.

In other words, if you argue that the Nazis knew by crystal ball gazing how much wood would be needed for cremation and left it there on its own, your problem only increases because more wood would be needed in this self-sustaining process.

Eyewitnesses describe all sorts of attempts to cremate the corpses, and that a method used by Herman Floss, was adopted as the most successful.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151224062 ... 16-10.html

"An SS-Oberscharführer or Hauptsch~rfuflrer Floss arrived at this time, who, so I presume, must previously have been in another camp. He then had the installation built for burning the corpses. The incineration was carried out by placing railroad rails on blocks of concrete. The corpses were then piled up on these rails. Brush wood was placed under the rails. The wood was drenched with gasoline. Not only the newly obtained corpses were burnt in this way, but also those exhumed from the ditches."

Your argument that because you cannot work out, based on an experiment and your thoughts, therefore it did not happen, is LOGICALLY FLAWED. The pyre described above, is like the pyres seen as Dresden and Ohrdruf. They worked. Keeping the corpses separate from the wood, means that the wood can burn to embers, which can reach up to 1000 degrees centigrade, sucking in air, fuelling the flames, that then set alight the corpses. The fat in the corpses was enough fuel to sustain the fire, which matches witnesses claims about women burning better than men.

[Nessie]

...

You can't prove that the cremated remains of millions of corpses are in the mass graves of these camps,

Yes I can. Every single eyewitness from the death camps speaks to mass graves. Documents record how many people arrived at those camps. Archaeological surveys have found large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains.

.... nor do the Polish and Jewish authorities want to establish this because they know it didn't happen.

Polish, Jewish and other authorities, have spent a lot of time and resources, gathering and examining the evidence of what happened at the death camps, including extensive archaeological surveys. You just chose not to believe that evidence.

Trump says the dollar is king, the Holocaust is also king; without it, Israel and the Jewish community will collapse in their soft power.

Just because there are cremated remains in these camps doesn't mean the narrative about these camps is absolutely correct. As I said, the evidence proves that the scale of cremation in these camps was a fraction of the alleged death toll, sufficient only for the sick, malnourished, and weak people who died along the way.

Turn over the entire soil of these camps and bring me ashes equivalent to the alleged death toll, and I will bow down and worship you forever.

What volume of disturbed ground, containing cremated remains, do you say is at Sobibor, Belzec, TII and Chelmno?

[Nessie]

According to so-called revisionists, this must be fake, as a BBQ cannot catch fire, causing the meat to burn.

[Wahrheitssucher]

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RELATED OCCURRENCE 1:
After a Qinghai earthquake on the 8th of January in 2022, about a thousand corpses were burnt over three days of mass cremations on open-air pyres.

The following photos show Tibetan monks arranging the cremations in the town of Jiegu.
People here might find this of some morbid but useful interest.











RELEVANT INFO 2.
The person with the feminine avatar of a mythological lake-creature is genuinely challenged mentally.
They have been denying the empirical evidence refuting the holyH narrative for over a decade.
This individual has demonstrated over that time that they are quite incapable of ever admitting error in the holyH mythology, no matter how irrefutable the evidence presented.
Their motivation is deep psychosis.
Therefore, it is pointless to try to have a sane, reasonable, intelligent discussion with this person.

I’m genuinely surprised that so many here don’t seem to have realised this yet.

[HansHill]

the cremations were not that thorough.

Except you don't have ~1,500,000 bodies that look anything like that? You don't have a fraction of what you need of anything approaching any number of bodies that ever looked like that.

In fact, if in 1945, examining judge Łukaszkiewicz found ~800,000 or even half, or even a quarter or even one-tenth of the alleged total of corpses that looked anything like that, then poof - that would be the holy grail evidence of the orthodox position.

Unfortunately for you, he said the exact opposite: