Evidence and Implementation

[Wahrheitssucher]

I'm seeing two big issues come up that hopefully you guys can help me understand better.

1. There is a ton of different pieces of evidence, in my opinion, all pointing to the same narrative. What I see happening here is that people cherry pick issues with individual pieces of evidence that don't fully invalidate those individual artifacts or testimonies, let alone the entire body of evidence.

In general, how do you guys think about inconsistencies in evidence and how to interpret that? I just think these issues are blown out of proportion again and again so I'm looking for some kind of meta heuristic to be more objective about these things and reduce the bias in discussions, which we all have to some extent.

How to interpret inconsistencies in evidence is to gain as wide an understanding of all the available evidence as possible, and WITHOUT favouring any preconceived conclusions and by being alert to any possible subliminal confirmation biases that one might have. This requires some self-awareness and an ability to read and assimilate arguments and viewpoints that contradict one’s own current understanding with fairness and honesty.
With the emotionally-loaded ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing narrative that means being open to views that we each have had decades of indoctrination into rejecting totally. It requires being able to temporarily set aside that conditioning and overcome the training that insists ‘good’ people should have a repulsion and a ‘healthy’ resistance to any arguments or doubts of the official narrative.
If one is unable to do this, they will not be able to understand let alone ‘try on’ contrary viewpoints and understandings.

2. If this is just a hoax or postwar narrative, how is it possible for all these different fake sources to have come up with different people that were mostly disconnected during and after the war? I don't see how it's physically possible for so many different people to fabricate so much evidence and testimonies without coordinating. Can you explain that to me? I don't think anything like that has ever happened before in the history of the world.

1.
Firstly, it wasn’t only a post-war narrative. It was concocted as ‘atrocity’ propaganda during the war. It is called psy-op warfare. That is short for ‘psychological-operations’. The British head of that was Victor Cavendish-Bentinck. One of his chief operatives was a Jew of Australian and German origins and upbringing/education.
This guy:


If you don’t know who that is, then be open to the idea that you yourself are the unwitting victim of a very skillful psy-op deception.

2.
Secondly your question is based upon a false premise. Viz. it does NOT require so many people to fabricate the initial psy-op deception. Once it is in place and disseminated, then human nature does the rest. This is a well-documented and confirmable human phenomena called ‘group conformity’.

3.
Thirdly, here is another example of millions of people believing, defending and repeating a fantastic and non-credible belief. It is the one about the virgin-birth of some dude from Galilee who could walk on water, could bring rotting corpses back to life, who lived and died two thousand years ago, yet who it is widely believed has been — and is STILL — appearing to people (inside their heads) and giving them messages, etc.

CJ appears to be someone who because they have had their feelings hurt, now isn’t interested in learning anything but only in trying to offend others back, in revenge.
That would explain why discussing how to most accurately interpret ‘evidence’ is no longer pretended to be of interest and everyone here is now dismissed collectively as dastardly ‘deniers’.

More evidence that CJ was never genuinely interested in actually understanding the revisionist arguments and how the holocaust hoax has been created and perpetuated is the ignoring of the above reference to Sefton Delmer, a key figure in British black propaganda during World War II who played a major role in psychological warfare operations against the Axis war-effort. Delmer was part of the Political Warfare Executive (PWE).

I have a question for the CODOH forum board:
After the war it appears it was he who had a conversation in fluent German with a German Professor where he admitted the spreading of atrocity propaganda, misinformation and disinformation in order to confuse, demoralise and create great guilt in the German population.
I can’t access the quote.
Anyone here know the quote I’m referring to?
It mentions creating a deception of such abhorrence that everyone the world over would revile the German people. It also mentions regularly ‘mowing the lawn’ as a metaphor for maintaining the deception.

[Nessie]

This thread has gone off-topic, because so-called revisionists cannot produce evidence to revise history.

[HansHill]

C'mon, you were the most decent person on here.

???

Your use of the word "kvetch" with that mocking connotation undermines your own credibility as being a good faith denier.

Seems bang on the nose for the landscape we are immersed in.

A lot of Holocaust deniers are acting in bad faith and very prejudicial and are not actually looking to pursue historical truth.

Perhaps. But again as Archie has already said to you above, whatever "issues" the Revisionist side are working with, applies tenfold to the Orthodox side. This has been explained many times over.

Soon, I will get to the bottom of the forensic chemistry. I do get the sense that you actually do believe that Jews were not intentionally killed in gas chambers, but there is no need to mock the situation.

The material has all been presented to you. It represents a moderate investment of time and attention, however you have shown yourself to be a high IQ and capable operator, it won't take you very long to study.

[Nessie]

A reminder;

I'm seeing two big issues come up that hopefully you guys can help me understand better.

1. There is a ton of different pieces of evidence, in my opinion, all pointing to the same narrative. What I see happening here is that people cherry pick issues with individual pieces of evidence that don't fully invalidate those individual artifacts or testimonies, let alone the entire body of evidence.

The point being made, is that there is a lot of evidence, from witnesses, documents, etc to prove mass gassings took place. To counter that, so-called revisionists cherry-pick parts of some of the witness testimony and claim there is such a problem with that part, the entirety can be ditched as a lie.

In general, how do you guys think about inconsistencies in evidence and how to interpret that? I just think these issues are blown out of proportion again and again so I'm looking for some kind of meta heuristic to be more objective about these things and reduce the bias in discussions, which we all have to some extent.

Here, CJ critiques so-called revisionist methodology, pointing out that the issues they find with the witness evidence are exaggerated and inaccurate. He is asking so-called revisionists to defend their methodology in how they deal with witness testimony.

2. If this is just a hoax or postwar narrative, how is it possible for all these different fake sources to have come up with different people that were mostly disconnected during and after the war? I don't see how it's physically possible for so many different people to fabricate so much evidence and testimonies without coordinating. Can you explain that to me? I don't think anything like that has ever happened before in the history of the world.

Where was the coordination needed to get Nazi and Jew, and all the other witnesses, from multiple different countries, to cooperate, to produce fake narratives and evidence, for the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas?

[HansHill]

A reminder;

Why did you neglect that Confused Jew hasn't reviewed the physical evidence?

He says as much himself a few posts up and promises us he will get to it soon.

[Nessie]

A reminder;

Why did you neglect that Confused Jew hasn't reviewed the physical evidence?

He says as much himself a few posts up and promises us he will get to it soon.

Did you neglect that, how so-called revisionists reviewed the physical evidence, is dishonest? For example, they review the geophysical evidence of TII, by handwaving it away and pouring scorn on C S-C.

[Wahrheitssucher]

I'm seeing two big issues come up that hopefully you guys can help me understand better.

1. There is a ton of different pieces of evidence, in my opinion, all pointing to the same narrative. What I see happening here is that people cherry pick issues with individual pieces of evidence that don't fully invalidate those individual artifacts or testimonies, let alone the entire body of evidence.

In general, how do you guys think about inconsistencies in evidence and how to interpret that? I just think these issues are blown out of proportion again and again so I'm looking for some kind of meta heuristic to be more objective about these things and reduce the bias in discussions, which we all have to some extent.

How to interpret inconsistencies in evidence is to gain as wide an understanding of all the available evidence as possible, and WITHOUT favouring any preconceived conclusions and by being alert to any possible subliminal confirmation biases that one might have. This requires some self-awareness and an ability to read and assimilate arguments and viewpoints that contradict one’s own current understanding with fairness and honesty.
With the emotionally-loaded ‘holocaust’ mass-gassing narrative that means being open to views that we each have had decades of indoctrination into rejecting totally. It requires being able to temporarily set aside that conditioning and overcome the training that insists ‘good’ people should have a repulsion and a ‘healthy’ resistance to any arguments or doubts of the official narrative.
If one is unable to do this, they will not be able to understand let alone ‘try on’ contrary viewpoints and understandings.

2. If this is just a hoax or postwar narrative, how is it possible for all these different fake sources to have come up with different people that were mostly disconnected during and after the war? I don't see how it's physically possible for so many different people to fabricate so much evidence and testimonies without coordinating. Can you explain that to me? I don't think anything like that has ever happened before in the history of the world.

1.
Firstly, it wasn’t only a post-war narrative. It was concocted as ‘atrocity’ propaganda during the war. It is called psy-op warfare. That is short for ‘psychological-operations’. The British head of that was Victor Cavendish-Bentinck. One of his chief operatives was a Jew of Australian and German origins and upbringing/education.
This guy:


If you don’t know who that is, then be open to the idea that you yourself are the unwitting victim of a very skillful psy-op deception.

2.
Secondly your question is based upon a false premise. Viz. it does NOT require so many people to fabricate the initial psy-op deception. Once it is in place and disseminated, then human nature does the rest. This is a well-documented and confirmable human phenomena called ‘group conformity’.

3.
Thirdly, here is another example of millions of people believing, defending and repeating a fantastic and non-credible belief. It is the one about the virgin-birth of some dude from Galilee who could walk on water, could bring rotting corpses back to life, who lived and died two thousand years ago, yet who it is widely believed has been — and is STILL — appearing to people (inside their heads) and giving them messages, etc.

CJ appears to be someone who because they have had their feelings hurt, now isn’t interested in learning anything but only in trying to offend others back, in revenge.
That would explain why discussing how to most accurately interpret ‘evidence’ is no longer pretended to be of interest and everyone here is now dismissed collectively as dastardly ‘deniers’.

More evidence that CJ was never genuinely interested in actually understanding the revisionist arguments and how the holocaust hoax has been created and perpetuated is the ignoring of the above reference to Sefton Delmer, a key figure in British black propaganda during World War II who played a major role in psychological warfare operations against the Axis war-effort. Delmer was part of the Political Warfare Executive (PWE).

I have a question for the CODOH forum board:
After the war it appears it was he who had a conversation in fluent German with a German Professor where he admitted the spreading of atrocity propaganda, misinformation and disinformation in order to confuse, demoralise and create great guilt in the German population.
I can’t access the quote.
Anyone here know the quote I’m referring to?
It mentions creating a deception of such abhorrence that everyone the world over would revile the German people. It also mentions regularly ‘mowing the lawn’ as a metaphor for maintaining the deception.

I found the quote:

"Atrocity propaganda is how we won the war.
And we're only really beginning with it now!
We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will escalate it until nobody will accept even a good word from the Germans, until all the sympathy they may still have abroad will have been destroyed and they themselves will be so confused that they will no longer know what they are doing. Once that has been achieved, once they begin to run down their own country and their own people, not reluctantly but with eagerness to please the victors, only then will our victory be complete.
It will never be final.
Re-education needs careful tending, like an English lawn.
Even one moment of negligence, and the weeds crop up again — those indestructible weeds of historical truth."

~ Allegedly said to Prof. Grimm by an Allied propagandist in May 1945 whilst the Prof was in Allied captivity, after the German surrender.
The German professor of International Law, Dr. Friedrich Grimm did not attribute this to Sefton Delmer as the person who said it to him was not known by name to him.

It is supposedly taken and translated from Prof. Dr. Friedrich Grimm’s book Politische Justiz: Die Krankheit unserer Zeit (first published in 1953). In that book, he recounts a conversation reportedly with a high-ranking Allied propaganda agent — often identified in secondary sources as Sefton Delmer — while Grimm was interned at the "Hotel Bayerischer Hof" as a VIP prisoner.
In that account, the Allied interlocutor admits that the real atrocity propaganda campaign against Germany would begin only after the war ended, with the intention of eradicating any sympathy toward Germany and destabilising German self-awareness.

If anyone has access to the quote in German I’b be grateful to see it.


Sefton Delmer — a key figure in British black propaganda and deliberate deceptions during and after World War II

[Nessie]

Wahrheitssucher is going off topic, discussing British use of propaganda, to avoid discussing the flaws with so-called revisionist evidencing.

[ConfusedJew]

Wahrheitssucher is going off topic, discussing British use of propaganda, to avoid discussing the flaws with so-called revisionist evidencing.

He's on my mute list and will not be taken off. He has abused his privilege to speak to me too many times. If anybody finds anything of substance worth repeating in his messages, they are welcome to refer me to them.

[Nessie]

In that case, I would ask that this thread be kept on topic and CJs, original post is responded to by Wahrheitssucher.