You Said
Tauber describes putting corpses into the top of the oven, on the grill, waiting 30 minutes, those corpses being cremated enough they fall through, can be raked through the grill and more corpses put on the grill. He does not say how long the corpses in the bottom continue to burn before the cremains are removed. The Topf & Sons engineer describes the same process and that the burning of the corpses in the bottom of the oven acted as fuel.
That means the corpses were in the oven for longer and the cremations needed less fuel than you want to accept. Your interpretations are to make it appear the corpses were only in the ovens for a few minutes and they needed tons of fuel to burn, to feed your illogical argument from incredulity. You arrogantly think that because you cannot calculate how it worked, it cannot have worked. You are like someone claiming that because they cannot calculate how it was possible to fire rockets from Northern France to London, therefore London was not bombed by V1 and V2 rockets. It is not your calculations that determines if something happened, it is the evidence.
You need to read Tauber’s testimony from Pressac, p. 483, 489 where he describes a complete cremation cycle with loading 4-5 bodies into the muffle, burning to ash, raking ash, and reloading every 30 minutes (“two charges per hour… every half hour”), with Ober Capo August’s “5 to 7 minutes” per corpse (6-7.5 min/body for 4-5) as a design spec. There’s no mention of a “top” grill, corpses “falling” mid-cycle, or a “bottom” burning phase.
Tauber’s Exact Words (Pressac, p. 483):
“Ober Capo August explained… according to the calculations and plans for this crematorium, 5 to 7 minutes was allowed to burn one corpse in a muffle.”
“Generally speaking, we burned 4 to 5 bodies at a time in one muffle… We could burn two charges per hour because the regulations stipulated that we had to load each muffle every half hour.”
After loading, “there was a few minutes’ break, and then the first muffle was ready to be loaded again.”
Raking Description (Pressac, p. 489):
“After combustion, the ash was raked out of the ash box below the muffle and the muffle was ready to receive a new load.”
“Two charges per hour” and “every half hour” mean 4-5 bodies are loaded into the muffle, burned to near-complete reduction (ash), raked from the ash box, and the muffle cleared within 30 minutes to allow reloading. The “few minutes’ break” is for reloading, not a phase where corpses fall to a “bottom.” Raking clears ash post-combustion (p. 489), not half-burned corpses mid-cycle.
Tauber never mentions a “top” grill? The muffles have a clay grate. No corpses “fall” or are “raked through” mid-cycle—the grate supports bodies during burning; ash falls after combustion, you can literally read it in the Topf manual, Betriebsvorschrift, page 5. There was no “continuous operation” with corpses moving to a “bottom” is described. Tauber’s cycle is discrete, with each batch fully processed in 30 minutes.
You provided no citation where Tauber describes corpses “falling” or being “raked through” to a “bottom” after 30 minutes.
Sander’s 1941 patent was an unbuilt, continuous cremation system with corpses sliding onto a 40-degree grid, burning fully using fat as fuel. It’s irrelevant to Topf’s triple-muffle ovens used at Auschwitz. Sander's Patent has No mention of
A “top” grill phase of 30 minutes. Corpses “falling” or being “raked” mid-cycle to a “bottom.” or A “bottom” phase where corpses burn as fuel.
Please cite Sander’s exact words describing corpses falling to a “bottom” to burn as fuel.
The Topf & Sons engineer describes the same process and that the burning of the corpses in the bottom of the oven acted as fuel.
Topf’s triple-muffle ovens have a single chamber per muffle with a clay grate. Bodies burn on the grate; ash drops to the ash box after full combustion (60-90 minutes/body, Read Topf manual, p. 5). There’s no “bottom” burning chamber or mechanism for corpses to “fall” mid-cycle. Ash and bone fragments fall through the grate to the ash box after full combustion (60-90 minutes/body, 15-30 kg coke, Mattogno, p. 67).
Actually read the Topf manual, after 30 minutes 4-5 bodies are half-burned (likely around 100-150 kg water un-evaporated), leaving bulky remains such as bones and tissue, that can’t “fall” through the grate (designed for ash) or be raked without clogging and halting the process (Topf manual, p. 5). Tauber’s “every half hour” requires a cleared muffle, which would be impossible with partial cremation. The ash box isn’t a combustion chamber corpses can’t burn there. Their “continuous operation” with falling corpses contradicts the oven’s fixed-grate, single-chamber design.
Cite a Topf blueprint or manual showing a “bottom” burning chamber or falling mechanism, or admit it’s not in the design.
Im going to paraphrase your claim, if you feel this is inaccurate tell me. You believe:
Corpses burning in the “bottom” act as fuel, reducing coke needs below my 60-75 kg for 4-5 bodies, and your (me, WW2history) calculations are an “argument from incredulity” like denying V1/V2 rockets.
Cremating 4-5 bodies takes 2-3 hours with 60-75 kg coke (Mattogno, p. 89; Rudolf, p. 321). In 30 minutes 7.5 kg coke can’t reduce 160-200 kg to ash, and the ash box can’t burn corpses to reduce fuel. My calculations are based on physics, not incredulity, and your rocket analogy is absurd. Why are you incapable of defending your position with physics impossibilities in mind?
I will once again explain basic physics to you, you NEED to consider this when you are making your insane claims.
A normal body, around 70-80 kg body, ~65-75% water, 10-20% fat.
You need to consider Water Evaporation which would be around 100-150 kg water for 4-5 bodies (2,260 kJ/kg), 30-45 minutes at 800°C to evaporate, not including tissue burning. Fat and flesh burn in ~30-60 minutes. Bones to fragments take 30-60 minutes. 2-3 hours for 4-5 bodies due to increased mass slowing heat transfer (Mattogno, p. 89).
This is not only verifiable by the forensic evidence, but by documentary evidence as well. Yet you rely on the weakest form of evidence, which is that of eye witnesses, who specifically on this event have lied on multiple occasions. Modern cremation science and Topf specs confirm 2-3 hours for 4-5 bodies. Quit defending your insane beliefs.
A side not with your V1/V2 rockets analogy, they are documented with physical evidence (wreckage, launch sites, British records). The numbers I've given you are rooted in physics and documentary evidence Topf specs (15-30 kg coke/body), and basic cremation science.
What do you have? “top and bottom” process lacks any evidence, no Tauber quote, no Sander quote, no Topf blueprint. Cite a cremation study showing 4-5 bodies in 30 minutes with reduced fuel, or admit you have none.
My argument is based on evidence, not incredulity:
- Water evaporation (2,260 kJ/kg), tissue burning, and bone calcination require 2-3 hours for 160-200 kg (Mattogno, p. 89).
- Topf Specs, 1 body/hour, 15-30 kg coke (NI-7179, Mattogno, p. 67).
- The Fuel Records show 2,188 tons coke delivered (Russian archives, Mattogno, p. 203), enough for ~80,000 bodies, not 1.1 million.
- The Single-chamber muffle, no “bottom” burning (Topf manual, p. 5).
- 0-640 µg/kg cyanide, not 1,000-3,000 µg/kg (Rudolf, p. 208).
- NO-021 (delousing), death books (~66,000, Hinsley, p. 673).
You Said
Tauber corroborates Sander, the Topf & Sons engineer, when he said;
"Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the fires were generally extinguished. When this type of body was charged into a hot furnace, fat immediately began to flow into the ash bin, where it caught fire and started the combustion of the body. When "musulmans" were being cremated, it was necessary to constantly refuel the fireboxes."
Corpses remianed in the ovens for longer than you want to accept, as you do not acknowledge the witness evidence of continued cremation inside the ash bin. We do not know how often the ash bin was emptied, or how. It would obviously be able to contain more than 4 to 5 corpses, as by then they were cremated.
It ruins your argument from incredulity, to acknowledge that the witness descriptions make sense with a process that had the corpses inside the ovens for more than half an hour. It is obvious you are trying to manipulate the witness claims into the corpses being in the ovens for only a few minutes.
Tauber’s Full Quote (Pressac, p. 489):
“Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the fires were generally extinguished. When this type of body was charged into a hot furnace, fat immediately began to flow into the ash bin, where it caught fire and started the combustion of the body. When ‘musulmans’ were being cremated, it was necessary to constantly refuel the fireboxes.”
“Two charges per hour… every half hour” (p. 483) means 4-5 bodies are loaded into the muffle, burned to ash, raked from the ash box, and the muffle cleared within 30 minutes (6-7.5 min/body, aligning with August’s “5 to 7 minutes”). The “few minutes’ break” is for reloading, not extended ash bin burning.
Tauber notes fat from “fat bodies” flows into the ash bin and catches fire, aiding initial combustion in the muffle (p. 489). This is a byproduct of fat drips through the grate during muffle cremation, ignites briefly in the ash bin due to muffle heat, but doesn’t sustain cremation there. The ash bin collects ash and drippings post-combustion, not burning corpses.
Tauber explicitly says ash is raked from the ash box after combustion (p. 489), not half-burned corpses. He never describes corpses falling, being raked mid-cycle, or burning in the ash bin. The muffle is the sole burning chamber. Musulmans would actually require more coke because they lacked fat to aid combustion, but this still occurs in the muffle, not the ash bin. Fat bodies reduced firebox fuel slightly, but not enough to cremate 4-5 bodies in 30 minutes. Tauber’s 30-minute full cycle is impossible, as physics requires 2-3 hours for 4-5 bodies.
You misinterpret Tauber’s fat ignition as “continued cremation” in the ash bin, ignoring his clear description of muffle-based cremation and ash raking post-combustion.
We already went over Sander above.
Corpses burn in the ash bin, extending cremation beyond 30 minutes, with the ash bin holding more than 4-5 corpses’ cremains, reducing fuel needs.
This is nonsense. The ash box is small, it was designed for ash and fragments (1-2 kg/body after cremation) 4-5 bodies are half-burned, which would have 100-150 kg water un-evaporated, leaving bulky remains that can’t fit through grate holes or be raked without clogging, topf warns about clogging in Topf manual, p. 5.
Your claim that it holds “more than 4 to 5 corpses” is absurd, quit defending ridiculous positions. Half-burned corpses don’t fit, and cremains are raked per batch.
You Said
"I was also able to observe how cremation proceeded while I was moving the corpses in the furnace with a fire iron, to accelerate the combustion"
"First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as 5 or 6. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin."
Clearly, corpses started in the top, on the grid bars, and then they would fall through to the ash box.
Core Description (p. 483):
“Ober Capo August explained… according to the calculations and plans for this crematorium, 5 to 7 minutes was allowed to burn one corpse in a muffle.
...
Generally speaking, we burned 4 to 5 bodies at a time in one muffle… We could burn two charges per hour because the regulations stipulated that we had to load each muffle every half hour.”
After loading 4-5 bodies, “there was a few minutes’ break, and then the first muffle was ready to be loaded again.”
As for Raking (p. 489):
“After combustion, the ash was raked out of the ash box below the muffle and the muffle was ready to receive a new load.”
He describes moving corpses with fire iron:
“I was also able to observe how cremation proceeded while I was moving the corpses in the furnace with a fire iron, to accelerate the combustion.”
Tauber is describing working as a stoker, manipulating corpses within the muffle using a fire iron to ensure even burning and speed combustion. The “furnace” is the muffle, not the ash box, and there’s no mention of corpses falling or being raked mid-cycle.
“First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as 5 or 6. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin.”
This is about initial placement to ensure proper burning, not corpses “falling through” mid-cycle after 30 minutes.
A Full Cycle: “Two charges per hour… every half hour” (p. 483) means 4-5 bodies are loaded, burned to ash, raked from the ash box, and the muffle cleared within 30 minutes (6-7.5 min/body, aligning with August’s “5 to 7 minutes”). The “few minutes’ break” is for reloading, not a phase where corpses fall to a “bottom.”
Tauber raked Ash, not Corpses. Tauber explicitly states “ash” is raked from the ash box after combustion (p. 489), not half-burned corpses mid-cycle. The ash box collects residues post-cremation, not burning bodies.
The second quote (p. 490) discusses a loading strategy adults first, then children, to prevent children’s smaller bodies or partially burned remains from slipping through the grid bars’ gaps during cremation. The grid bars are a clay grate and they support bodies throughout burning; only ash falls through after full combustion (READ the Topf manual, p. 5). Tauber’s concern is preventing loss of remains during the process, not facilitating a mid-cycle “fall” to the ash box.
No “Top and Bottom”: Tauber never mentions a “top” (grill) or “bottom” (ash box) burning phase, nor corpses “falling through” mid-cycle. The muffle is the sole burning chamber, and the ash box is for ash collection, not combustion.
You've cherry-picked quotes out of context, ignoring Tauber’s clear description of a 30-minute full cycle (p. 483, 489). You provide no evidence of corpses “falling through” or burning in the ash box.
You Said
Tauber corroborates Sander, the Topf & Sons engineer, when he said;
"Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the fires were generally extinguished. When this type of body was charged into a hot furnace, fat immediately began to flow into the ash bin, where it caught fire and started the combustion of the body. When "musulmans" were being cremated, it was necessary to constantly refuel the fireboxes."
Corpses remianed in the ovens for longer than you want to accept, as you do not acknowledge the witness evidence of continued cremation inside the ash bin. We do not know how often the ash bin was emptied, or how. It would obviously be able to contain more than 4 to 5 corpses, as by then they were cremated.
It ruins your argument from incredulity, to acknowledge that the witness descriptions make sense with a process that had the corpses inside the ovens for more than half an hour. It is obvious you are trying to manipulate the witness claims into the corpses being in the ovens for only a few minutes.
(Pressac, p. 489, their cited quote):
“Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses. So, during the incineration of fat bodies, the fires were generally extinguished. When this type of body was charged into a hot furnace, fat immediately began to flow into the ash bin, where it caught fire and started the combustion of the body. When ‘musulmans’ were being cremated, it was necessary to constantly refuel the fireboxes.”
This describes fat from “fat bodies” flowing into the ash bin during muffle combustion, where it catches fire and aids burning in the muffle. The “ash bin” is below the grate, collecting drippings, but Tauber doesn’t say corpses or remains burn there post-raking. The combustion occurs in the muffle, where fat ignites and “started the combustion of the body.” “Embers” refer to muffle heat, not an ash bin fire.
Why are we even talking about Sander? Pressac confirms Sander’s design was never built. Auschwitz’s Kremas II-V used Topf’s triple-muffle ovens (NI-7179), with horizontal loading, fixed grates, and ash boxes, designed for 1 body/muffle/hour (10-12/day/muffle, Pressac, p. 400).
Paraphrasing your point, correct me if incorrect:
their “ash bin burning” supports Tauber’s testimony and the 1.1 million cremation narrative, including the Hungarian peak (100,000 dead, 1,400/day).
Even Tauber’s impossible 30-minute cycle is unsupported by ash bin burning, can’t bridge the gaps in fuel (2,188 tons coke), capacity (360/day), or forensics (0-640 µg/kg cyanide). 1.1 million cremations need 29,700 tons coke according to Topf specs, or 176,000 tons wood (160 kg/body, Mattogno, Treblinka, p. 147).
Only 2,188 tons coke delivered (Russian archives, Mattogno, p. 203) which is enough for 80,000 bodies. The Hungarian peak needed 16,000 tons wood (224 tons/day, 22 railcars) there are no rail logs or aerial photos that support this. Your “ash bin fuel” is a lie, the ash bin can’t burn, and fat savings are minimal (5-10 kg/body).
You accuse my calculations (2-3 hours, 60-75 kg coke for 4-5 bodies) are an “argument from incredulity,” manipulating Tauber’s claim into “a few minutes” cremation. My argument is evidence-based dude, yours is not.
Basic Physics, 2,260 kJ/kg for water, 2-3 hours for 160-200 kg (Mattogno, p. 89; Journal of Forensic Sciences, 2004).
Documentary evidence, Topf Specs state 1 body/hour, 15-30 kg coke (NI-7179, Mattogno, p. 67).
The Fuel Records state 2,188 tons coke arrived. (Russian archives, Mattogno, p. 203).
Auschwitz had a Single-chamber muffle, no burning ash bin (Topf manual, p. 5).
The Forensics are even against you, 0-640 µg/kg cyanide (Rudolf, p. 208).
Documentary evidence is against you, Nuremberg Document NO-021, and remaining death books (~66,000, Hinsley, p. 673).
And what do you have? Nothing. No Topf blueprint, no cremation study, no fuel records for 29,700 tons coke or 176,000 tons wood.
You Said
Sander said;
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61650
"The crematorium for mass incineration should be developed after the principle of the assembly line, and into the oven corpses should be incessantly introduced for cremation by mechanical means.
The corpses should get into the oven under the load of their own weight, falling by themselves upon the grid on a fireproof surface with an inclination of 40 degrees and burning under the effect of the fire. The corpses themselves were to serve as an additional source of fuel.
This patent could not be officially registered at the state patent office because due to the war it had a confidential character, but my invention was applied in practice, and the number [of the patent-] was communicated to me."
His design was "applied in practice".
Jean-Claude Pressac states in on page 400 that Sander’s patent was a "conceptual design", and was "never constructed or installed at Auschwitz". Pressac notes it was proposed in a 1943 memo but remained theoretical, with no evidence of it being built or tested. Sander’s vague claim that it was "applied in practice" lacks any evidence whatsoever. There is no location, no documentation, no confirmation from Topf records or SS archives. The forum post provides no corroborating evidence beyond Sander’s own assertion, which is insufficient to prove implementation.
Thankfully we have both the Topf Ovens that were actually at Aucwhitz, and Sander's design, so we can actually test his claim to see if they were "applied in practice"
Topf Ovens at Auschwitz were designed for:
- Horizontal loading through doors.
- Fixed clay grates (not inclined).
- Discrete cremation cycles, processing one body per muffle per hour.
Sander’s Design, In contrast to the actual ones at Auschwitz:
- A continuous system with mechanical loading.
- A 40-degree inclined grid where corpses slide and burn.
- No discrete cycles, but "incessant" introduction.
So Sander lied, his claim cannot be verified by any evidence whatsoever.
It's like what Germar Rudolf says, If 100 witnesses and 100 confessions state that the moon is made of green cheese or that 870,000 corpses can be burned within a few months without fuel and without leaving traces, both assertions being of a similar intellectual quality, then we have to conclude—in light of all the forensic evidence—that the witnesses and the defendants are wrong.
But ironically you'd side with the Green cheese people, given how in this entire debate you've been on an endless retreat from point to point.
You Said
He describes an oven on two parts, with corpses placed onto a metal grate with an ash box below. He describes the gaps as large enough for children's corpses to fall through. If it takes 30 minutes to cremate the corpses ontop of the grate, before more corpses can be introduced, and the crmeated corpses acting as fuel, that clearly means the corpses fall through the gaps, to keep on burning, as more corpses are introduced.
What Tauber Actually Says:
On p. 483: “Generally speaking, we burned 4 to 5 bodies at a time in one muffle… We could burn two charges per hour because the regulations stipulated that we had to load each muffle every half hour.” After loading, “there was a few minutes’ break, and then the first muffle was ready to be loaded again.”
On p. 489: “After combustion, the ash was raked out of the ash box below the muffle and the muffle was ready to receive a new load.”
Tauber’s “two charges per hour” and “every half hour” indicate that 4-5 bodies are loaded into the muffle, fully reduced to ash and bone fragments within 30 minutes, and then the ash is raked out before reloading. The “few minutes’ break” is for reloading, not a phase where corpses fall mid-cycle. Tauber never mentions a “metal grate.” The Topf ovens used clay grates, which supported bodies during burning, allowing ash to fall through only after combustion. Raking occurs post-combustion to clear ash and fragments, not to move half-burned corpses.
The muffle is one chamber, not a “top” where partial burning occurs. Cremation happens entirely on the grate, and ash falls through only when combustion is complete (60-90 minutes per body, per Topf specs; Mattogno, The Cremation Ovens of Auschwitz, p. 67).
Your description is a fiction and totally unsupported by documentary evidence.
You Said
Your interpretation is wrong. You have no decription of the ash box being emptied 30 minutes after the corpses have been put into the grate. I have descriptions of corpses buring in the ash box, acting as fuel, as more corpses are introduced after 30 minutes, meaning the corpses burn both above the grate and then in the ash box, so they are in the oven for more than 30 minutes.
What Tauber Actually Says (Pressac, p. 483):
“Ober Capo August explained… according to the calculations and plans for this crematorium, 5 to 7 minutes was allowed to burn one corpse in a muffle.”
“Generally speaking, we burned 4 to 5 bodies at a time in one muffle… We could burn two charges per hour because the regulations stipulated that we had to load each muffle every half hour.”
After loading 4-5 bodies, “there was a few minutes’ break, and then the first muffle was ready to be loaded again.”
AND (Pressac, p. 489):
“After combustion, the ash was raked out of the ash box below the muffle and the muffle was ready to receive a new load.”
“Two charges per hour” and “every half hour” means EACH muffle handles TWO separate cremation cycles per hour. For 4-5 bodies per charge, one cycle takes 30 minutes, load the bodies, burn them to ash, rake the ash, and reload. The math aligns: 60 minutes ÷ 2 charges = 30 minutes per charge.
Ober Capo August’s estimate (5-7 minutes per body) t suggests that for 4-5 bodies, the total time is roughly 20-35 minutes (5 bodies × 5-7 minutes = 25-35 minutes). Tauber’s practical description adjusts this to a full 30-minute cycle, including loading and raking.
“A few minutes’ break” This brief pause occurs after the bodies are burned and before reloading for raking and preparing the muffle not for an extended burning phase elsewhere.
“Ash was raked out of the ash box after combustion” The ash box is emptied of ash, the residue of fully cremated bodies, not burning corpses. This happens post-combustion, within the 30-minute window, to clear the muffle for the next load.
Tauber describes a complete cremation cycle in his own POV, 4-5 bodies are loaded onto the muffle’s grate, burned to ash in about 30 minutes (averaging 6-7.5 minutes per body), and then the ash is raked from the ash box below to allow reloading. The process repeats every half hour. There’s no mention of corpses burning in the ash box or acting as fue —only ash is handled post-combustion.
Your claim also hinges on the ash box functioning as a burning chamber. Let’s actually check this against the Topf triple-muffle oven design used in Auschwitz Krema II/III (Topf operating manual).
Muffle: The combustion chamber, heated to 800-1,000°C, where bodies are burned on a clay grate. Coke-fired generators supply the heat.
Ash Box: A tray below the grate that collects ash and bone fragments after combustion. It has no burners, no independent airflow, and no heat source (Topf manual, p. 5).
Process: Bodies burn in the muffle; ash falls through the grate or is raked into the ash box post-cremation. The ash box is cleared to prepare for the next load.
You have yet to provide any Topf document or blueprint showing the ash box as a combustion zone. It’s designed to collect cooled residues, not burn anything.
So you saying corpses burn in the ash box as fuel, with more corpses added every 30 minutes, implying a two-stage process where bodies burn partially on the grate and continue burning below for over 30 minutes is just ridiculous, and you forget the problem with your view is Tauber never says corpses burn in the ash box. He specifies “ash” is raked out after combustion (p. 489), not half-burned corpses. The 30-minute cycle includes full reduction to ash, not partial burning with extended time below. Your “descriptions” of ash box burning are nowhere in Pressac (p. 483 or 489) or any cited source. You're making it up, unless you are hiding a secret source you aren't sharing?
When you refute me, or make your pretty bad attempts to, keep this in mind:
IS what I'm saying defying literal physics? If so, I should reconsider my position.
IS what I'm saying defying the literal manual for the cremation facilities at Auschwitz? If so, I should reconsider my position.
IS what I'm saying going against Tauber’s words of which are quoted and cited for me? IF so, I should reconsider my position.
But instead of doing this, you've doubled down on it, to your own peril.
You Said
You are ignoring that two charges per hour, is half an hour per charge and every corpse has been in for half an hour, before more corpses are introduced, so their average is 30 minutes, not 5 to 7.
Tauber states that each muffle was loaded with a “charge” of 4-5 corpses every 30 minutes, or “two charges per hour.” He also relays a specific claim from Ober Capo August: that “5 to 7 minutes was allowed to burn one corpse in a muffle,” based on “calculations and plans” (Pressac, p. 483). These are two distinct pieces of information:"
The 30-minute cycle refers to the operational loading, burning, and clearing a batch of 4-5 corpses every half hour.
The 5-7 minute claim Presented as a design target for cremating a single corpse, not an average derived from the 30-minute cycle.
You are conflating these, to somehow come to the conclusion that 30-minute cycle means each corpse averages 30 minutes in the oven.
Tauber describes loading 4-5 bodies into a muffle, waiting a “few minutes’ break,” and then reloading with a new batch every 30 minutes. The entire process for each batch, loading, burning to ash, and clearing the muffle is completed within 30 minutes. Why? Because the muffle must be ready for the next charge every half hour. If the bodies aren’t fully cremated by then, the process stalls, contradicting Tauber’s account of continuous loading “every half hour.”
You interpret this as each corpse is in the oven for 30 minutes before the next batch is introduced, so the “average” time per corpse is 30 minutes. But this misreads the testimony. Tauber isn’t saying each corpse is partially burned for 30 minutes and then left while more are added. He’s saying the entire batch of 4-5 bodies is processed—reduced to ash—in that 30-minute window, allowing the muffle to be cleared and reloaded.
Adding new corpses to a still-burning prior batch is against what Topf engineers explicitly state in their manual due to risk of clogging, airflow disruption, and combustion failure. "30 minutes per corpse” assumes each body is in the oven for the full 30 minutes and then somehow finished when the next batch arrives. But if the bodies aren’t ash in 30 minutes, the muffle can’t be cleared, breaking the “two charges per hour” cycle. Can 4-5 bodies be cremated in 30 minutes? Physics says no.
I'm not ignoring the “two charges per hour” detail, it’s actually central to showing the contradiction. Tauber’s account suggests 4-5 bodies are fully cremated in 30 minutes (6-7.5 min/body). Both claims are physically unfeasible, as cremating that many bodies takes 2-3 hours, not 30 minutes. Tauber literally mentions Ober Capo August's claim of 5-7 minutes per corpse, which aligns with the 30-minute cycle for 4-5 bodies (30 minutes ÷ 5 bodies ≈ 6 minutes per body). This reinforces that the expectation was for each body to be fully processed within that short time frame, not that they were in the oven for longer.
You Said
Multiple corpse cremations, of naked corpses, no coffins, not to ash to be returned to relatives, means comparisons with single coffin cremations of clothed corpses to ashes are false comparisons. Of course the latter will take more time.
Dude, 160-200 kg (4-5 bodies) needs 50-75 kg coke over 2-3 hours, even with fat combustion (5-10 kg coke saved per body, Rudolf, p. 321). Your 30-minute cycle (~7.5 kg coke) can’t evaporate ~100-150 kg water or burn tissue and bone. Are you somehow implying nakedness or no coffins reduce 160-200 kg from 2-3 hours to 30 minutes? Where’s the Topf blueprint showing a “bottom” burning chamber? How do 4-5 bodies burn with ~7.5 kg coke in 30 minutes when ~50-75 kg is needed?
You Said
Tauber said;
"First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as 5 or 6. We used this procedure so that the bodies of children would not be placed directly on the grid bars which were relatively far apart. In this way we prevented the children from falling through into the ash bin."
There are two parts to the oven.
You interpret this of a “two-stage” process where bodies are partially cremated on the “top” (the grate), then fall or are moved to a “bottom” (the ash bin) to finish burning. You are implying the ash bin is a secondary burning chamber. The flaw in your interpretation is clear if you knew what you were talking about. Tauber’s clearly describes a 30-minute cremation cycle for 4-5 bodies, after which ash, not partially burned corpses, is raked from the ash box below. There’s no hint of bodies “dropping” mid-cycle or a “bottom” burning phase. The quote is about preventing children from falling through the grate before cremation, not during or after partial burning.
We have the literal design of the Ovens, that is the objective evidence, let's view it:
Oven Structure (Topf Manual, Betriebsvorschrift; NI-7179)
The Muffle Chamber, each muffle is a single, horizontal chamber with a clay grate. Bodies are loaded onto the grate through a door. The grate holds bodies during cremation. As they burn fully (60-90 minutes per body per Topf specs), ash and small bone fragments fall through the grate’s gaps into the ash box below. Positioned beneath the grate, this is a passive collection area for ash and residue after cremation is complete. It has no burners, airflow, or heat source to sustain combustion.
The ash box isn’t a “bottom” where cremation continues, it’s just for cleanup. Calling it a “part” of the burning process is like calling a vacuum cleaner bag part of the vacuuming action.
You Said
Tauber said;
"Later on, as cremations succeeded one another, the furnaces burned thanks to the embers produced by the combustion of the corpses."
That is the embers in the ash box, below the grate. Sander said;
"The corpses themselves were to serve as an additional source of fuel."
The ash box cannot burn corpses my guy. The ash box in Topf ovens (see Topf technical documents) is a collection area beneath the muffle’s grate for ash and bone fragments after cremation. It lacks:
A heat source (like the coke gasifier feeding the muffle).
And
A Forced airflow (like the draft system in the muffle).
Without these, combustion stops. Half-burned corpses (still wet, with 100-150 kg of water after 30 minutes) would cool, not burn, in the ash box (Rudolf, Dissecting the Holocaust, p. 321). Even if embers smoldered there, which is impossible due to insufficient oxygen and heat, any warmth wouldn’t transfer back to the muffle, which is insulated from the ash box (Topf manual, p. 5).
Also, Sander’s patent has no “bottom” phase where corpses burn as fuel. Ash falls to a collection area after combustion, not during. The Auschwitz Topf ovens (fixed grates, no sloping grid) don’t match this design (NI-7179). The ash box remains a non-combustion zone.
Sander's design were never implemented, so arguing this is such a desperate attempt by you.
