No Sources, No History

[Nessie]

.....

That was not evidence to prove, it was just a limited history of key events.

It was presented to my peers and my self as 'evidence of a genocide perpetrated by the Germans against the jews during ww2'. Along with pictures of the victims of the firebombing of Dresden and other out of context photographs and motion pictures.

That was wrong.

Historians give a range from 5 to 6 million killed by gassings, mass shootings and other deaths in camps, based on evidence primarily from documents.

Would you kindly cite these 'documents'?

Key documents include the Einsatzgruppen OSRs that document the mass shootings in the east, the Holfe Telegram and other records that document the transports to the AR death camps, the transport and registration records from A-B and the Korherr Report, a statistical analysis produced for Himmler.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eport.html
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/edu ... -telegram/
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

That is part of the evidence to prove the mass murders.

Have you read the cables and the reports?

What I have linked to, yes, every cable or report, no.

It is complicated, but I am not telling you to take it on faith. I am telling you the opposite and to learn about all the evidence that proves mass murder from Babi Yar to the A-B Kremas.

Babi Yar was a pogrom. Read the einsatzgruppen report. The perpetrators were Ukrainian militia. So far as the Krematoria, that's a huge can of worms. It boils down to 15 minutes for a body. If I took my brain out of my skull and set it on the shelf, I might be able to buy it.

Please evidence Babi Yar was by Ukrainian militia with no EG involvement. OSR101 is clear about the mass shootings.

The cremations were of multiple corpses, so averages are misleading and not the actual time a corpse spent in the oven.

That applies to revisionist claims. They cannot agree on, let alone evidence, the history of the Jews of Kiev, or what happened inside the Kremas.

The jews of Kiev spent roughly 200 years with the native population, did they not? Maybe more if you buy in to the khazirian thing from Chabad Lubavitch. What 'exactly' are you referring to here that I have missed?

I would assume that the bodies of the dead were hygienicly cremated inside the crematoria, I don't consider that to be a wild statement. In Auschwitz for example, burial wasn't exactly an option given the water table, same with treblinka, oddly, that didn't have crematoria.

No revisionist will tackle where the Kiev Jews went, if they were not shot at Babi Yar. Between them revisionists have concluded that the Kremas were used for delousing clothing, showering people, as corpse stores and as bomb shelters.

That alone proves revisionism is failed history.

[Stubble]

....

That was wrong.

Key documents include the Einsatzgruppen OSRs that document the mass shootings in the east, the Holfe Telegram and other records that document the transports to the AR death camps, the transport and registration records from A-B and the Korherr Report, a statistical analysis produced for Himmler.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eport.html
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/edu ... -telegram/
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

What I have linked to, yes, every cable or report, no.

Please evidence Babi Yar was by Ukrainian militia with no EG involvement. OSR101 is clear about the mass shootings.

The cremations were of multiple corpses, so averages are misleading and not the actual time a corpse spent in the oven.

No revisionist will tackle where the Kiev Jews went, if they were not shot at Babi Yar. Between them revisionists have concluded that the Kremas were used for delousing clothing, showering people, as corpse stores and as bomb shelters.

That alone proves revisionism is failed history.

1) Thank you. It was also very mentally jarring to see a bunch of emaciated, naked, dead bodies. Some burned alive, some with exploded heads, piles of them being bulldozed etc. And then to later learn how much of it was out of context?...

2) Thank you, I will add it to the list. I'm about 6,000,000 pages behind on my other assignment, but I will go through the linked material and respond when I get a chance to give it the time it deserves.

3)Very fair. What you have provided is not just a shallow cursory look.

4) I am currently unable to verify my assertion, if you would like a retraction until I can provide the requisite documentation, then I will retract the statement for now.

5)

https://www.bitchute.com/video/k3UpQAarO8uu

6) I will more throughly investigate the jewish question in Kiev.

This statement about the crematoria is disingenuous.

Bath and disinfection facilities and crematoria are different things. The 'corpse cellars' were 'corpse cellars'. That crematoria 1 served as an air raid shelter is not controversial.

Regarding crematoria 1 situated at the Auschwitz complex, it is behind the hospital and next to the camp commandant's house. Would you use cyanide gas next to a healthcare facility and your wife and kids? Then there is the ventilation problem etc. I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole here, but I'd be remissed if I didn't mention these 'small problems'. This is without mentioning the hole in the floor for the escape tunnel and various other issues.

Concerning cremation operations at the Auschwitz complexes, this is not borne out in the extant aerial photographs as the crematoria are not burning constantly. Then there is the fuel problem. Where are the coal bunkers? The coal deliveries? How was the prewar output of coal for all of Europe put into the furnaces while at the same time, the material of war was being produced? This isn't a small detail, it is a very real problem. Where is the fuel bill?

[Nessie]

....

That was wrong.

Key documents include the Einsatzgruppen OSRs that document the mass shootings in the east, the Holfe Telegram and other records that document the transports to the AR death camps, the transport and registration records from A-B and the Korherr Report, a statistical analysis produced for Himmler.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eport.html
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/edu ... -telegram/
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

What I have linked to, yes, every cable or report, no.

Please evidence Babi Yar was by Ukrainian militia with no EG involvement. OSR101 is clear about the mass shootings.

The cremations were of multiple corpses, so averages are misleading and not the actual time a corpse spent in the oven.

No revisionist will tackle where the Kiev Jews went, if they were not shot at Babi Yar. Between them revisionists have concluded that the Kremas were used for delousing clothing, showering people, as corpse stores and as bomb shelters.

That alone proves revisionism is failed history.

1) Thank you. It was also very mentally jarring to see a bunch of emaciated, naked, dead bodies. Some burned alive, some with exploded heads, piles of them being bulldozed etc. And then to later learn how much of it was out of context?...

You initially said you were shown showers at Majdanek and mass burials at Belsen as proof of gas chambers, which they are not. The photos of the dead found when the camps were liberated, are part of the circumstantial evidence used to prove Nazi motives and policies and the particular cruelty they directed towards the Jews. It is within the context of their ethnic cleansing and genocidal actions.

2) Thank you, I will add it to the list. I'm about 6,000,000 pages behind on my other assignment, but I will go through the linked material and respond when I get a chance to give it the time it deserves.

3)Very fair. What you have provided is not just a shallow cursory look.

4) I am currently unable to verify my assertion, if you would like a retraction until I can provide the requisite documentation, then I will retract the statement for now.

5)

https://www.bitchute.com/video/k3UpQAarO8uu

6) I will more throughly investigate the jewish question in Kiev.

This statement about the crematoria is disingenuous.

Bath and disinfection facilities and crematoria are different things. The 'corpse cellars' were 'corpse cellars'. That crematoria 1 served as an air raid shelter is not controversial.

Revisionists claim Kremas II to V, located at Birkenau, were variously used for delousing, showering, mortuaries and bomb shelters. They cannot produce any evidence of that happening 1943-4.

Regarding crematoria 1 situated at the Auschwitz complex, it is behind the hospital and next to the camp commandant's house. Would you use cyanide gas next to a healthcare facility and your wife and kids? Then there is the ventilation problem etc. I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole here, but I'd be remissed if I didn't mention these 'small problems'. This is without mentioning the hole in the floor for the escape tunnel and various other issues.

Krema I, as Auschwitz main camp, has a different history to the others. Its use as a gas chambers was limited and there is evidence to prove it first functioned as a mortuary and then a bomb shelter. There is no equivalent evidence for the Birkenau Kremas.

It had no more or less of a ventilation problem as the various delousing chambers situated around the camp. I have never heard of it having an escape tunnel.

Concerning cremation operations at the Auschwitz complexes, this is not borne out in the extant aerial photographs as the crematoria are not burning, constantly. Then there is the fuel problem. Where are the coal bunkers? The coal deliveries? How was the prewar output of coal for all of Europe put into the furnaces while at the same time, the material of war was being produced? This isn't a small detail, it is a very real problem. Where is the fuel bill?

The aerial photos are a tiny snapshot of what was happening and cannot be used to determine if each Krema was in operation at the time the photo was taken. Some witnesses do describe the Kremas in constant use, but that is likely an exaggeration, or it refers to periods when usage was high, such as the Hungarian action in spring 1944.

There is no fuel problem. Topf & Sons engineers gave evidence as to how the ovens worked and that they were designed for multiple corpse cremations, at a high efficiency, recycling heat from still cremating corpses to start the cremation of newly introduced corpses. No knowing how much coke was used and not having a "fuel bill" is not a "very real problem". It just means we do not know certain exact details about the functioning of the Kremas. Revisionists seem to think that if they cannot work out how things happened, that therefore means they did not happen.

[TlsMS93]

The definition of genocide requires more intent than the question of deaths. Note that there is a division as to whether the Holodomor was a genocide or a side effect of collectivization. Wikipedia treats the Katyn massacre as a genocide because Stalin signed the order, despite the number of deaths being several orders of magnitude lower.

Hitler did not sign anything official, but he made inflammatory statements, something that Israeli leaders also make today to the Palestinians without the West recognizing an ongoing genocide.

That's an issue that is ignored. Intent is the key issue with genocide. means and multitude not so much.

Overall it can be said that the NS-German intent was to physically remove Jews from their sphere of influence. There is some harsh language. But the overall evidence is against an intend total physical destruction of Jews globally.

As far as 'witness reports are concerned, atrocious content can easily be explained with them being malicious for being made to work by the Germans during WW2. But this is strangely ignored. Also ignored is that there are plenty of *potential* witness who did not notice anything of an extermination program.

Yes, there are countless prisoners who saw nothing. The only ones who talk about gassing are the Sonderkommando with their 6 bodies in a muffle furnace and exotic witnesses who say they miraculously survived.

[Stubble]

....

That was wrong.

Key documents include the Einsatzgruppen OSRs that document the mass shootings in the east, the Holfe Telegram and other records that document the transports to the AR death camps, the transport and registration records from A-B and the Korherr Report, a statistical analysis produced for Himmler.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eport.html
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/edu ... -telegram/
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/glaser.htm
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

What I have linked to, yes, every cable or report, no.

Please evidence Babi Yar was by Ukrainian militia with no EG involvement. OSR101 is clear about the mass shootings.

The cremations were of multiple corpses, so averages are misleading and not the actual time a corpse spent in the oven.

No revisionist will tackle where the Kiev Jews went, if they were not shot at Babi Yar. Between them revisionists have concluded that the Kremas were used for delousing clothing, showering people, as corpse stores and as bomb shelters.

That alone proves revisionism is failed history.

1) Thank you. It was also very mentally jarring to see a bunch of emaciated, naked, dead bodies. Some burned alive, some with exploded heads, piles of them being bulldozed etc. And then to later learn how much of it was out of context?...

You initially said you were shown showers at Majdanek and mass burials at Belsen as proof of gas chambers, which they are not. The photos of the dead found when the camps were liberated, are part of the circumstantial evidence used to prove Nazi motives and policies and the particular cruelty they directed towards the Jews. It is within the context of their ethnic cleansing and genocidal actions.

2) Thank you, I will add it to the list. I'm about 6,000,000 pages behind on my other assignment, but I will go through the linked material and respond when I get a chance to give it the time it deserves.

3)Very fair. What you have provided is not just a shallow cursory look.

4) I am currently unable to verify my assertion, if you would like a retraction until I can provide the requisite documentation, then I will retract the statement for now.

5)

https://www.bitchute.com/video/k3UpQAarO8uu

6) I will more throughly investigate the jewish question in Kiev.

This statement about the crematoria is disingenuous.

Bath and disinfection facilities and crematoria are different things. The 'corpse cellars' were 'corpse cellars'. That crematoria 1 served as an air raid shelter is not controversial.

Revisionists claim Kremas II to V, located at Birkenau, were variously used for delousing, showering, mortuaries and bomb shelters. They cannot produce any evidence of that happening 1943-4.

Regarding crematoria 1 situated at the Auschwitz complex, it is behind the hospital and next to the camp commandant's house. Would you use cyanide gas next to a healthcare facility and your wife and kids? Then there is the ventilation problem etc. I'm not trying to go down a rabbit hole here, but I'd be remissed if I didn't mention these 'small problems'. This is without mentioning the hole in the floor for the escape tunnel and various other issues.

Krema I, as Auschwitz main camp, has a different history to the others. Its use as a gas chambers was limited and there is evidence to prove it first functioned as a mortuary and then a bomb shelter. There is no equivalent evidence for the Birkenau Kremas.

It had no more or less of a ventilation problem as the various delousing chambers situated around the camp. I have never heard of it having an escape tunnel.

Concerning cremation operations at the Auschwitz complexes, this is not borne out in the extant aerial photographs as the crematoria are not burning, constantly. Then there is the fuel problem. Where are the coal bunkers? The coal deliveries? How was the prewar output of coal for all of Europe put into the furnaces while at the same time, the material of war was being produced? This isn't a small detail, it is a very real problem. Where is the fuel bill?

The aerial photos are a tiny snapshot of what was happening and cannot be used to determine if each Krema was in operation at the time the photo was taken. Some witnesses do describe the Kremas in constant use, but that is likely an exaggeration, or it refers to periods when usage was high, such as the Hungarian action in spring 1944.

There is no fuel problem. Topf & Sons engineers gave evidence as to how the ovens worked and that they were designed for multiple corpse cremations, at a high efficiency, recycling heat from still cremating corpses to start the cremation of newly introduced corpses. No knowing how much coke was used and not having a "fuel bill" is not a "very real problem". It just means we do not know certain exact details about the functioning of the Kremas. Revisionists seem to think that if they cannot work out how things happened, that therefore means they did not happen.

Depending on how much time transpires between this post and when I can compose a more replete response I will either edit this post, or create a new one.

I have to say that being shown pictures of the aftermath of the firebombing of Dresden and the allied bombing of nordhausen, without context, and told they were proof of a campaign of extermination by the German Authorities during ww2 was wrong. Yes, I was also shown footage of the shower at majdanek and told it was footage of a gas chamber disguised as a shower room, and I was also told the typhus victims buried at Belsen were victims of an extermination campaign by the German authorities. Which I was told was gassing, in death camps. So, yes, I was told they were gassed.

This wasn't ethical, it is highly suspect and it makes me extremely apprehensive to trust the system that crapped these lies directly into my eyeballs in my childhood.

[TlsMS93]

There is no fuel problem

Indians suffer for nothing.

Engineers have already said that it took 1 hour per body, try pushing 4, 5 emaciated bodies through a passage two feet wide and high for this issue to be resolved soon. If there were a large supply of coal it would be used as conclusive proof of the extermination, since there is none, they need this rescue mechanism.

On November 23, 1978, French historian René Rémond me(Faurisson) declared: “As for the [Nazi] gas chambers, I am ready to follow you; as for the genocide, I am deeply convinced that Nazism itself was sufficiently perverse for this genocide to be part of its motivations and its actions, but I recognize that I have no scientific evidence for this genocide.”

[Nessie]

....

Depending on how much time transpires between this post and when I can compose a more replete response I will either edit this post, or create a new one.

I have to say that being shown pictures of the aftermath of the firebombing of Dresden and the allied bombing of nordhausen, without context, and told they were proof of a campaign of extermination by the German Authorities during ww2 was wrong. Yes, I was also shown footage of the shower at majdanek and told it was footage of a gas chamber disguised as a shower room, and I was also told the typhus victims buried at Belsen were victims of an extermination campaign by the German authorities. Which I was told was gassing, in death camps. So, yes, I was told they were gassed.

This wasn't ethical, it is highly suspect and it makes me extremely apprehensive to trust the system that crapped these lies directly into my eyeballs in my childhood.

What you were taught was poor and it is odd, since more accurate versions of the history of Dresden, Nordhausen, Majdanek and Belsen are readily available online. Or were you taught pre-internet? I don't remember anything from school or university. My first history of the Holocaust was from an episode of the TV series, The World At War.

[Stubble]

....

Depending on how much time transpires between this post and when I can compose a more replete response I will either edit this post, or create a new one.

I have to say that being shown pictures of the aftermath of the firebombing of Dresden and the allied bombing of nordhausen, without context, and told they were proof of a campaign of extermination by the German Authorities during ww2 was wrong. Yes, I was also shown footage of the shower at majdanek and told it was footage of a gas chamber disguised as a shower room, and I was also told the typhus victims buried at Belsen were victims of an extermination campaign by the German authorities. Which I was told was gassing, in death camps. So, yes, I was told they were gassed.

This wasn't ethical, it is highly suspect and it makes me extremely apprehensive to trust the system that crapped these lies directly into my eyeballs in my childhood.

What you were taught was poor and it is odd, since more accurate versions of the history of Dresden, Nordhausen, Majdanek and Belsen are readily available online. Or were you taught pre-internet? I don't remember anything from school or university. My first history of the Holocaust was from an episode of the TV series, The World At War.

What I was taught was consistent for the time. We were also presented Schindler's List as a historical and accurate telling of a true story.

The 'gore porn' was simply spliced in here and there with no context for it. Just presented interspliced with violins, sad stories and promises of 'never again'.

So far as my instruction and the internet, I was using AOL Wizard at the college to read the text based internet of the day using the gopher system. I understood and used the internet, but, there were not a whole lot of us doing so at the time.

This was when I was in grade school by the way. As a latch key kid, I found plenty of idle time.

So far as you not remembering grade school, well, that's you. I can remember as an infant being left on a water bed because the person changing me had stuck the safety pin into the mattress causing a leak. I remember it because of the trauma of rolling between the mattress and the frame un attended and having my head wedged betwixt, while screaming, for what seemed like eternity.

I remember trauma from my childhood vividly. My instruction on the holocaust was trauma, and it was more than one instruction of one module in 1 year. We were hit again in high school.

If you are asserting that I should have recognized these pictures as being out of place at the time because I should have been able to look them up easily, I'll ask you, as a high trust student, why would I have done so? Ever? I took my instruction as gospel and knew that my teachers would never lie to me. So far as it being 'odd' it wasn't at all 'odd'. All of my peers received the same instruction, it was quite normal to us. You find it odd and can't even remember college.

Edit: spelling errors

[Nessie]

Stubble, do you now see that what you were taught was inaccurate and that it is easy to get a far more accurate history? (From historians, not revisionists).

[Stubble]

Gas chambers at buchenwald? Open air cremation with no fuel? Death certificates and sick reports?

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304214 ... 7-10.shtml

This, this is the evidence I am supposed to seriously entertain?

I'll admit, I'm having a tough time with my 6,000,000 page assignment. In my defense, to me the material seems like pravda. I will keep winnowing away at it, but have not yet completed my assignment. I ran across the linked material as an aside. There are so many rabbit holes.

Link to original article is dead, but, it was an article published by a university paper.

https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012 ... -the-camp/

Elie Wiesel was to be gassed, at buchenwald?

This isn't some ancient artifact of misconstrued history, this is a recently promoted piece of propaganda. You can tell me all day long 'well, our understanding of the holocaust has evolved as we have gotten better evidence'. I'm going to call that a lie.

The exhaust fan for krema 1, added to the lore in the mid 1990's? Find me an earlier source, please.

The 'black liberators of buchenwald'?

Taking Irine Zisblatt on speaking tours to schools to talk about Dr Mingle removing her tattoo so that she could be made in to a lampshade for Mrs Koch? At buchenwald? When she was not at buchenwald? And her husband was commandant at majdanek? Before he was hung by the SS after a trial concluded he was responsible for the unauthorized killing of 3 detainees? At buchenwald?

[Nessie]

Gas chambers at buchenwald?

There were no gas chambers there, but like other camps, under a euthanasia project Action 14f13, prisoners were sent to be gassed at one of the hospitals used for the T4 euthanasia project.

Open air cremation with no fuel?

Fuel was used.

Death certificates and sick reports?

What is that referring to?

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304214 ... 7-10.shtml

This, this is the evidence I am supposed to seriously entertain?

What is wrong with that testimony?

I'll admit, I'm having a tough time with my 6,000,000 page assignment. In my defense, to me the material seems like pravda. I will keep winnowing away at it, but have not yet completed my assignment. I ran across the linked material as an aside. There are so many rabbit holes.

Link to original article is dead, but, it was an article published by a university paper.

https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012 ... -the-camp/

Elie Wiesel was to be gassed, at buchenwald?

You seem to find the most unreliable sources, other references to the camp do not say it had a gas chambers.

This isn't some ancient artifact of misconstrued history, this is a recently promoted piece of propaganda. You can tell me all day long 'well, our understanding of the holocaust has evolved as we have gotten better evidence'. I'm going to call that a lie.

Why is it a lie? It stands to reason that an event as large as the Holocaust will have left evidence that will not be discovered for decades. The Hofle Telegram and a photo album of Sobibor are two examples I can think of. Nothing has been found that significantly alters the mass murder narrative, or supports revisionist claims.

The exhaust fan for krema 1, added to the lore in the mid 1990's? Find me an earlier source, please.

The 'black liberators of buchenwald'?

Taking Irine Zisblatt on speaking tours to schools to talk about Dr Mingle removing her tattoo so that she could be made in to a lampshade for Mrs Koch? At buchenwald? When she was not at buchenwald? And her husband was commandant at majdanek? Before he was hung by the SS after a trial concluded he was responsible for the unauthorized killing of 3 detainees? At buchenwald?

If you go to only unreliable, poor sources for your evidence, along with the poor teaching you got, it is no wonder you have your doubts. Revisionists do not have the answer, they do not even do history, let alone have any evidence.

[Stubble]

Gas chambers at buchenwald?

There were no gas chambers there, but like other camps, under a euthanasia project Action 14f13, prisoners were sent to be gassed at one of the hospitals used for the T4 euthanasia project.

Open air cremation with no fuel?

Fuel was used.

Death certificates and sick reports?

What is that referring to?

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304214 ... 7-10.shtml

This, this is the evidence I am supposed to seriously entertain?

What is wrong with that testimony?

I'll admit, I'm having a tough time with my 6,000,000 page assignment. In my defense, to me the material seems like pravda. I will keep winnowing away at it, but have not yet completed my assignment. I ran across the linked material as an aside. There are so many rabbit holes.

Link to original article is dead, but, it was an article published by a university paper.

https://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2012 ... -the-camp/

Elie Wiesel was to be gassed, at buchenwald?

You seem to find the most unreliable sources, other references to the camp do not say it had a gas chambers.

This isn't some ancient artifact of misconstrued history, this is a recently promoted piece of propaganda. You can tell me all day long 'well, our understanding of the holocaust has evolved as we have gotten better evidence'. I'm going to call that a lie.

Why is it a lie? It stands to reason that an event as large as the Holocaust will have left evidence that will not be discovered for decades. The Hofle Telegram and a photo album of Sobibor are two examples I can think of. Nothing has been found that significantly alters the mass murder narrative, or supports revisionist claims.

The exhaust fan for krema 1, added to the lore in the mid 1990's? Find me an earlier source, please.

The 'black liberators of buchenwald'?

Taking Irine Zisblatt on speaking tours to schools to talk about Dr Mingle removing her tattoo so that she could be made in to a lampshade for Mrs Koch? At buchenwald? When she was not at buchenwald? And her husband was commandant at majdanek? Before he was hung by the SS after a trial concluded he was responsible for the unauthorized killing of 3 detainees? At buchenwald?

If you go to only unreliable, poor sources for your evidence, along with the poor teaching you got, it is no wonder you have your doubts. Revisionists do not have the answer, they do not even do history, let alone have any evidence.

Uhm, that link to the testimony is where I got everything above the link to it. It's in that testimony. He said there were gas chambers at buchenwald, that open air cremation was preformed at the camps in Poland using 'a special process' with no fuel. He said that he discovered the 'extermination program' in the camps through the 'death certificates'. I mean, read that testimony. You buy all of that?

The college article was more to show that the propaganda campaign continues that much of anything else. This is still being shoved into the soft heads of impressionable children as they are being traumatized, in my opinion on purpose.

You tell me these are 'unreliable sources'. Well, they are inside the education system, and you do nothing to rectify this. Instead you expect me to believe that a body in a cremation oven will burn another body with no coal. You also expect me to buy the 6,000,000 schtick.

You asked in a post in another thread 'well, were did the jews go'. They were relocated 'east'. Check the clarification in Der Speigel concerning the edit of the Korherr report. Then consider the statistical significance that the random jew picked to go on Montel Williams with Cole just so happened to have a living brother on the other side of the iron curtain that was not killed in a gas chamber. Then ask yourself how many of these style of reunions were prevented by trying to prop up and maintain a lie.

The reason I don't believe you is because you cannot show me a narrative that passes muster. It doesn't make any sense.

Then, you tell me 'well your sources are bad'. Well, then argue to reform holocaust education and get everyone to stop lying to me.

The only thing I can find in my personal investigation of the holocaust is 6,000,000 lies.

Henkel Wernukt as a credible witness? The list can go on and on and on. You will just dismiss each single point and say, 'well, historians agree' and 'well there is consensus that' without actually addressing the real points.

No coal to burn the bodies? That's fine, an engineer said you can fit 6,000,000 bodies in 1 cremation oven and they burn themselves! Do you hear yourself? And you say I find bad sources?

[SanityCheck]

Regarding Buchenwald, there are 1,503 articles in the New York Times from the 1930s to the end of the 2010s which reference the camp. ProQuest News and Newspapers aggregates 62 media databases and has 44,340 results including some from papers in Europe in recent years, along with British, Canadian and US papers going back to the 1930s and earlier.

At worldcat.org, there are just over 11,000 hits for Buchenwald of which 7,429 are books. While worldcat.org is notoriously crowd-sourced and thus has quadruplicate entries for most titles, along with listing every edition, translation and more, it also helpfully includes hits from tables of contents, some publishers' blurbs and subject classifications, so this does capture all kinds of titles. There would be many thousands more books which have discussed Buchenwald without triggering such hits, including many studies of the Nazi concentration camp system as a whole.

There were at least 50 trials regarding Buchenwald at the US Dachau Tribunal, including the main trial all in 1947.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/bu ... mes-trials
West Germany conducted a further twelve trials, East Germany a further nine trials, not counting trials of Buchenwald sub-camps
https://junsv.nl/junsv-01/junsv/brd/dstst01.html
https://junsv.nl/junsv-01/junsv/ddr/ddrdstst01.html

To anyone's knowledge, in none of these 71 trials was gassing under discussion regarding Buchenwald.

None of the histories of Buchenwald or the KZ system I have read ever mention gassing at Buchenwald.

Given the rather large number of newspaper articles and books which have mentioned Buchenwald, it would not be a surprise if some made false claims out of ignorance or because they conflated Buchenwald with other camps. The conflation of camps is why some 1940s sources appear at first glance to reference gassing or gas chambers at Buchenwald, for example the British prosecutor Hartley Shawcross at Nuremberg adding Buchenwald to a list of camps where gassings took place. This is on a par with when your parents called you by the family dog's name, or your sibling's name. It means nothing.

There were 10s of 1000s of survivors of Buchenwald who had been there in 1944-45, as 21,000 were liberated in the camp and thousands more had passed through to sub-camps, other camps or been evacuated and survived. Given that many had come from other camps which did have gas chambers, it would not be a surprise if a very small minority held the belief that Buchenwald did as well. Others might have been misunderstood when someone else asked them so they ended up appearing to endorse a Buchenwald gas chamber when in fact they meant Auschwitz.

Famously, Paul Rassinier whaled on a few French survivors of the camps who wrote poetry or wrote down stories about a Buchenwald gas chamber. I think he found four of them, but there were 50 memoirs of Buchenwald published in France in the 1940s. These were all French non-Jewish 'politicals'. Some were being overly poetic and some might have experienced envy of other camps and survivors, due to hearing reports in the camp of such things or after liberation.


All of which makes 'Buchenwald gas chamber' rather an anomaly, not a conventional claim, nor one that is likely to have been encountered by anyone since they read books that don't repeat this, newspapers that don't repeat this or had lessons from teachers who had done their homework.

Anomaly-hunting certainly gratifies cranks and those with axes to grind, like the late author of the Further Glory blog, but is not normally regarded as the route to enlightenment by pretty much any other method, including the simple 'look up what Wikipedia says' or 'look up what this or that website says' fact-checking. (AIs are still too unreliable to be trusted on basic fact-checking, I'm afraid - I've seen too many examples of utter errors from them to regard them as a source of any kind.)

[TlsMS93]

No coal to burn the bodies? That's fine, an engineer said you can fit 6,000,000 bodies in 1 cremation oven and they burn themselves!

Exactly, I would have to explain why this didn't work in war? Why oil, tanks, planes and bullets?

[Stubble]

So, that testimony is no worry for us. It was just used to hang people and happens to contain impossible fantastic claims.

How about the magic coal at Auschwitz? Or was it magic furnaces?

The black liberators of buchenwald hoax?

Parading Irine Zisblatt around to grade schools?

It's all fine right? No big deal, just lie to me my entire life and then act incredulously when I don't believe everything. Because, you know, experts agree that coal is not necessary to operate a coal fired cremation oven. And you can just stack 5 bodies in there and it will be done in 15 minutes.

Don't forget, you can also remove 4,000,000 victims roughly from the total at majdanek and Auschwitz and not change the 6,000,000 figure, because, well those weren't jews. The guy that unironically cited Jankel Warnick, of fame for hits like the poop master and 'I got shot with a k98 at close range and all it did was tear a hole in my shirt and bounce of my shoulder' said so.

Look, you do a lot of cherry picking and counting hits and ignoring misses. I pick a cherry? Eh, it's just one. There are so many.

Going over the shoah foundation archives, if I didn't know any better, I'd think, by volume of testimony, that treblinka was a transit camp, where people were sterilized from lice, issued camp clothes and shoes, given a cup of 'terrible' coffee, and interviewed and assigned to a specific camp.

Apparently though, that is an evel nazi ruse. Because treblinka was a DEATH CAMP, and NOBODY GOT OUT ALIVE.

I'm sure all those people who said they were transited through, they were just confused. Because there was a guy that said, no no, we didn't steam them like lobsters, no, we used a captured Soviet diesel engine from a tank to gas them with carbon monoxide.

You know, because that makes sense. Use a Soviet tank engine so that you can just walk over to your nearest t34's are us and pick up all the intakes, conrods and head studs you need. It's not like anybody had a gasoline car engine anywhere that could actually produce enough co to be lethal.

The whole orthodox narrative is just so slap together and ramshackle. Inconsistent. Let's not forget also manicured, cultivated and constantly changing. There was no exhaust vent for krema I until the 1990's, then suddenly, oh, yes, of course there was an exhaust vent. Well where was it in the 'original state' 'chamber of death'?

Regarding the IMT and gas chambers at buchenwald,

The Trial of German Major War CriminalsSitting at Nuremberg, Germany
29th July to 8th August 1946

One Hundred and Ninety-Seventh Day: Wednesday, 7th August, 1946

It is right there. So, apparently Georg knew something nobody else did, he also knew where they got all the mythical wood for the open air cremations, they found a chemical you can put on a body to just burn it up completely with no wood. You just use it to start the fire and the bodies burn themselves, like magic.