Forensic Chemistry

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HansHill
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by HansHill »

ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:22 pm Rudolf literally illegally took samples from the UNESCO World Heritage site...

I'll be generous and just "assume" that the samples were not intentionally tampered with beyond that initial crime.
The very fact you think this is in any way a "generous" and not a "baseline" assumption, indicates exactly why you will never be unbiased on this topic. Neither Rudolf nor Revisionists need the gift of your "generosity" in acknowledging these findings.
ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:25 pm
HansHill wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 8:06 am Re AI - it is baffling and hilarious that you think a 130 page book or 2 hour video is too much time investment, which would actually get you somewhere, VS a 4 month series of mindless AI slopthreads which go absolutely nowhere.
I've been given thousands of pages to read and many multiple hour long videos to read.
Over 4 months.

You can refuse to defend your position and just insult and criticize but that shows you don't have a response. Can you defend the Rudolf and Leuchter Report as being as sensitive and credible as the Markiewicz report? No, I don't think so which is why you are dodging.
"don't have a response" - I've been responding to you for 4 months, numbskull - even when you refused to talk with anybody else? Tf is this?
You can call me dishonest all you want, it's clear that I am not being dishonest.
>I'm here to learn
>Refuses to learn

Nope, dishonest.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by ConfusedJew »

HansHill wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:38 pm
The very fact you think this is in any way a "generous" and not a "baseline" assumption, indicates exactly why you will never be unbiased on this topic. Neither Rudolf nor Revisionists need the gift of your "generosity" in acknowledging these findings.
They do.
"don't have a response" - I've been responding to you for 4 months, numbskull - even when you refused to talk with anybody else? Tf is this?
Explain this - "Systematic research, involving most sensitive analytical methods, undertaken by the Institute confirmed the presence of cyanide compounds in all kinds of gas chamber ruins, even in the basement of Block 11 in Auschwitz, where first, experimental gassing of victims by means of Zyklon B had been carried out. The analysis of control samples, taken from other places (especially from living quarters) yielded unequivocally negative results. For the sake of interpretation several laboratory experiments have been carried out."
>I'm here to learn
>Refuses to learn

Nope, dishonest.
Do you think most Jewish people would even care to learn about who Rudolf or Leuchter or Mattogno are? Calling me dishonest because I see through the BS is bad faith.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wetzelrad wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 3:16 am Further, if you say that colorimetry is not sensitive enough, then how can you be sure of its sensitivity when Markiewicz used it?
I didn't actually say that Markiewicz used colorimetry. Nor did he in his publication.

From what I am seeing, Markiewicz explicitly used micro diffusion for sample preparation, isolating cyanide from complex matrices to minimize interference. This enabled detection of trace cyanide in gas chambers, unlike Rudolf’s and Leuchter’s less sensitive methods (~1,000 ppb).
We decided therefore to determine the cyanide ions using a method that does not induce the breakdown of the composed ferrum cyanide complex (this is the blue under discussion) and which fact we had tested before on an appropriate standard sample. To isolate cyanide compounds from the materials examined in the form of hydrogen cyanide we used the techniques of microdiffusion in special Conway-type chambers.
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HansHill
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by HansHill »

ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:32 pm
HansHill wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 8:06 am
Depth profiling: The only study to apply depth profiling is the Rudolf study. This is yet one more reason as to why the Rudolf study is by far and away more robust than that of Markiewicz. Aside from depth profiling, Rudolf also measured for iron content, and ensured in-built redundancy by having his samples analyzed separately by two independent institutes (double blind).
You are missing the point. Iron content doesn't add value to the study which is why Markiewicz didn't bother to test for it.
I mentioned iron content because you initially tried to say there wasn't enough iron present. So his iron content measurement does indeed "add value" when morons attempt to make moronic arguments about the lack of iron.
Why do you think "depth profiling" adds any value to the study or makes it more reliable? It does the opposite by diluting the samples. Roth mentioned this in his testimony.
This is your argument dude, and you answered it yourself. Leuchter's test did not include depth profiling, which is what Roth critiqued. Ok are you still with me? Good. Rudolf's sample did include depth profiling, which Roth did not criticize, and shields Rudolf's samples from the exact argument you (via Roth) are leveling at him. The depth profiles range from 0.0 - 0.3 mm meaning surface material. But of course you've never read the study so you have no way of knowing that.

The complaint about the Rudolf test is not that the labs tampered with the analysis, it's that they weren't sensitive enough and that they were diluted.
>"The three labs that all performed these tests did it wrong" - Confused Jew
>"No they didn't" - Hanshill

Ok now what?
What you describe is not double blind. Now you are clearly out of your depth. A double-blind study is a research method in which neither the participants nor the researchers know who is receiving the treatment or intervention and who is receiving a placebo or control. This design minimizes bias, as it prevents expectations from influencing the results.

Rudolf knew what he was sampling even if the lab analysts didn't. Double blind isn't really a concept that adequately applies to chemistry studies though.
Technically you are right that double-blind is not an adequate description here, and in fact it is hilarious that in all your postings this point is the one that containst the most truth from you. The term "double-blind" as an agreed upon term is actually being phased out for this misconception and ambiguity.

Image

So technically you are right, however it's completely beside the point. I was merely pointing out a property (blindness) of the Rudolf study that the Markiewicz study does not hold (that is blindness / impartiality)
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Stubble
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Stubble »

ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 1:25 pm You can refuse to defend your position and just insult and criticize but that shows you don't have a response.
CJ, I can't debate positions with you, because you don't debate. You assert.

You don't take correction, you never offer retraction, and if things start going too badly for you, you feign ignorance.

You don't know how my position is wrong. You just know that I'm wrong, and by golly, you're going to prove it.

In 4 months, you have learned nothing and you exhibit the memory of a goldfish, often refuting what you just said, moments earlier.

Regarding the cyanids found by the 1994 Krakow study;
Look, if I laid out every molecule of this contaminant end to end, it’d stretch farther than your morning erection — and it’d be about as consequential.
Generated by your AI, I think it's got a point.

This prompt was a result of explaining my interactions with you. The model thought this might help 'break through'.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Wetzelrad
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Wetzelrad »

I will only respond to a few things here, since the vast majority of what's been written is irrelevant besides being hopelessly wrong.
ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:49 am
Wetzelrad wrote: Thu Aug 07, 2025 12:51 am My contention was that cyanide traces in the control samples were roughly equal to those in the supposed gas chambers. You offered "contamination from weathering, renovation, or debris" and adjacency as explanations for that. If you find these to be sufficient explanations for trace cyanides in the control samples, then surely they are also sufficient explanations for trace cyanides in the supposed gas chambers.
It seems like you didn't understand my explanation, but if your test is not sensitive to properly measure cyanide residues, then you will find that the same levels between residue and controls. The test wasn't powerful or accurate enough which is why test results were unreliable at that level.
A) This is nonsense. You haven't demonstrated the power, sensitivity, accuracy, or superiority of any test over another test. Markiewicz foolishly chose to ignore detection limits, an industry standard, which allowed him to claim exceptionally low trace detections.

B) The various laboratories that revisionists used found cyanide traces at levels ten times higher than Markiewicz did. This is not a matter of the revisionists coming back with all zero/negative findings where Markiewicz found all positive ones, which is the only way the argument you're making could make sense.

C) There are very real and legitimate concerns that Rudolf has raised over the validity of such low measurements, which your AI has latched on to, but those strengthen his argument, not yours.

D) This is nonresponsive to what you quoted, again.
ConfusedJew wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:49 am
You can keep asking your AI to say this as many times as you like, but nearby buildings have in fact been found to have cyanide readings of 1.2, 1.3, and 9.6 mg/kg.
I already explained this. On the chart, it explicitly says at those levels, the result is "uncertain" meaning that you can't say whether or not its positive or negative.
No, you haven't already explained this because you just devised it in this post.

What you are doing is pointing out that Rudolf, as the more honest and serious chemist, has correctly noted the problems with such low measurements. Everyone on your side of the argument disagrees with what Rudolf says there because, if they allow that 7.2 mg/kg was an invalid finding, then all of Markiewicz's measurements could similarly be invalid. Is that the path you want to go down?

I take it from all these walls of AI slop that you have no explanation for why the levels of cyanide traces in living spaces are equal to or higher than they are in gas chambers.
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Keen
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Keen »

ConfusedJew wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:48 pm
Keen wrote: Tue Aug 05, 2025 5:32 pm
ConfusedJew wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 11:14 am I have very low expectations from a Holocaust denial forum but I want to get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible and it's like pulling teeth from some of you.
Says the reality denier.

Confused jew;

Can you show me that which you allege I deny?
I'm not a reality denier, I'm a Holocaust affirmer.
The so-called "holocaust" that you "affirm" is not only false, but it has been proven to be false. You deny the reality of that fact. That makes you a reality denier.

Can you show me that which you allege I deny?
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Nessie
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Nessie »

Wetzelrad wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 4:55 pm ...

Rudolf, as the more honest and serious chemist, has correctly noted the problems with such low measurements. Everyone on your side of the argument disagrees with what Rudolf says there because, if they allow that 7.2 mg/kg was an invalid finding, then all of Markiewicz's measurements could similarly be invalid.

...
We have three people, Rudolph, Leuchter and Markiewicz, who have conducted sampling and all agree that residues are lower in what is left of the Kremas, than they are in delousing chambers. They are more akin to the levels found elsewhere in the camp, where there was exposure to Zyklon B. That is the end of the forensic chemistry. Evidentially, all forensic chemistry can do, is evidence the residue level of what is left of the Kremas, compared to elsewhere. There would be no issue if the Krema remains showed up as Prussian blue, with high levels of HCN. But they do not, leaving a cause so-called revisionist can get behind.

To work out why the residue is what it is, we need to look at evidence of usage. It is not logical or evidentially valid, to stop with just the forensic chemistry evidence and conclude that since the residue is more akin to other buildings not used for gassings, therefore the Kremas were not used for gassings.
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:41 am To work out why the residue is what it is, we need to look at evidence of usage.
This a circular argument and an attempt to derail the thread.
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Nessie »

Nazgul wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 8:30 am
Nessie wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:41 am To work out why the residue is what it is, we need to look at evidence of usage.
This a circular argument and an attempt to derail the thread.
Only you think that is it possible to prove what happened, inside the Kremas, using only one piece of evidence. The forensic chemistry result, on its own, does not prove gassings did not happen, let alone what the Kremas were used for.
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Nazgul »

Nessie wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 8:52 am The forensic chemistry result, on its own, does not prove gassings did not happen, let alone what the Kremas were used for.
This thread is about the forensics nor your beliefs. This thread has no interest in what the Kremas were used nor if gassings occur. The conclusions are another thread.
Omnia transibunt. Oblivione erimus imperia surgent et cadunt, sed gloria Romae aeterna est!
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HansHill
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:41 am
Wetzelrad wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 4:55 pm ...

Rudolf, as the more honest and serious chemist, has correctly noted the problems with such low measurements. Everyone on your side of the argument disagrees with what Rudolf says there because, if they allow that 7.2 mg/kg was an invalid finding, then all of Markiewicz's measurements could similarly be invalid.

...
We have three people, Rudolph, Leuchter and Markiewicz, who have conducted sampling and all agree that residues are lower in what is left of the Kremas, than they are in delousing chambers. They are more akin to the levels found elsewhere in the camp, where there was exposure to Zyklon B. That is the end of the forensic chemistry. Evidentially, all forensic chemistry can do, is evidence the residue level of what is left of the Kremas, compared to elsewhere. There would be no issue if the Krema remains showed up as Prussian blue, with high levels of HCN. But they do not, leaving a cause so-called revisionist can get behind.

To work out why the residue is what it is, we need to look at evidence of usage. It is not logical or evidentially valid, to stop with just the forensic chemistry evidence and conclude that since the residue is more akin to other buildings not used for gassings, therefore the Kremas were not used for gassings.
I'm not sure if you are miscounting or have forgotten, but we have five "people" or rather five teams. Leuchter, Rudolf, Markiewicz, Mattogno and Ball. The Markiewicz team performed two analyses, four years apart, so this really is six.

I actually agree with Nessie on his first paragraph here that Chemistry can only do so much. And what it has done is given us a vision which is scientifically cohesive and sound, to support the assertion "these rooms were not used for homicidal gassings". The chemistry does indeed give us this "cause" to get behind. When I am explaining this in my own life IRL to normal, non-jewish and non-holocaust activists who can think critically, I describe this as the offramp to creating a cohesive vision of the world by adding together various aspects.

By creating this vision I usually begin with the chemistry and next highlight the Kula Columns. We are off to a good start here, too because not only has nobody in the real world even heard of a Kula Column, but they cannot even be demonstrated to exist or make sense. Next are the holes, and another incredibly strong position for the revisionists as they don't exist.

By the end of this string of rhetoric, the revisionist vision of the world looks something like this, as pieced together by:

We have a B&W Polaroid given to us by the chemistry that HcN was never present there
We added color to our Polaroid by the absence of Kula Columns meaning no murder weapon
We added sound by the absence of holes and again no murder weapon
We add 360 degree 4k resolution IMAX by analyzing the corpse disposal
And finally we turn our vision into a feature length Blockbuster by analyzing the fabrications and contradictions of the witnesses and Allies.

We don't have a "Blockbuster" without the chemistry, and as Nessie rightly said, if PB did form it would be game over for this vision before it even goes any where. In the end, not only is this vision of the world entirely cohesive and internally consistent, it is upheld by the chemistry in the very first instance.

In my experience this is a powerful way to explain this topic to interested White people, and especially at a time like this where everybody (and mostly Whites) is absolutely disgusted by the evil and immoral actions of these Zionists and Jewish /Holocaust activists in the world today. So yes slightly off-topic as Nazgul highlighted but I just wanted to center Nessie's post in the "why" chemistry is both limited but critically valuable.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

HansHill wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 9:59 am…I usually begin with the chemistry and next highlight the Kula Columns. …nobody in the real world [has] even heard of a Kula Column, [plus they] cannot even be demonstrated to [have] existed, nor make sense.
Next are the holes, and another incredibly strong position for the revisionists, as they don't exist.

By the end of this string of rhetoric, the revisionist vision of the world looks something like this, as pieced together by:
~ the chemistry [proving] that HcN was never present there,
~ the absence of Kula Columns, meaning no murder weapon,
~ the absence of holes, [so] again no murder weapon,
~ analyzing the [improbable] corpse disposal [narrative],
~ and finally we [conclude] by analyzing the fabrications and contradictions of the witnesses and Allies.

…In the end, not only is this vision of the world entirely cohesive and internally consistent, it is upheld by the chemistry in the very first instance.

In my experience this is a powerful way to explain this topic to interested White people, and especially at a time like this where everybody …is absolutely disgusted by the evil and immoral actions of these Zionists and Jewish /Holocaust activists in the world today. So yes slightly off-topic …but I just wanted to center …on the "why" chemistry is both limited but critically valuable.
What an excellent, simple, clear and concise overview!

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A ‘holocaust’ believer’s problem is not technical, factual, empirical or archeological — their problem is psychological.
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HansHill
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by HansHill »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 1:11 pm
HansHill wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 9:59 am…I usually begin with the chemistry and next highlight the Kula Columns. …nobody in the real world [has] even heard of a Kula Column, [plus they] cannot even be demonstrated to [have] existed, nor make sense.
Next are the holes, and another incredibly strong position for the revisionists, as they don't exist.

By the end of this string of rhetoric, the revisionist vision of the world looks something like this, as pieced together by:
~ the chemistry [proving] that HcN was never present there,
~ the absence of Kula Columns, meaning no murder weapon,
~ the absence of holes, [so] again no murder weapon,
~ analyzing the [improbable] corpse disposal [narrative],
~ and finally we [conclude] by analyzing the fabrications and contradictions of the witnesses and Allies.

…In the end, not only is this vision of the world entirely cohesive and internally consistent, it is upheld by the chemistry in the very first instance.

In my experience this is a powerful way to explain this topic to interested White people, and especially at a time like this where everybody …is absolutely disgusted by the evil and immoral actions of these Zionists and Jewish /Holocaust activists in the world today. So yes slightly off-topic …but I just wanted to center …on the "why" chemistry is both limited but critically valuable.
What an excellent, simple, clear and concise overview!

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Thank you, and thank you for tidying it up :lol: i've been told my output sometimes needs tight editing and now I see why :lol:
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Re: Forensic Chemistry

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Sat Aug 09, 2025 9:59 am ...

I actually agree with Nessie on his first paragraph here that Chemistry can only do so much. And what it has done is given us a vision which is scientifically cohesive and sound, to support the assertion "these rooms were not used for homicidal gassings".
That is what the lower than expected levels suggest, but, as you correctly identify, chemistry can only do so much. It is wrong to conclude therefore no gassings, just from the chemistry, especially when there is so much evidence that gassings took place.
The chemistry does indeed give us this "cause" to get behind. When I am explaining this in my own life IRL to normal, non-jewish and non-holocaust activists who can think critically, I describe this as the offramp to creating a cohesive vision of the world by adding together various aspects.
Except that go on to X and I presume other places where denial takes place, and there are plenty of people who argue that the evidence of gas chambers inside the Kremas, proves they were used for delousing. Thus, there is no cohesion from so-called revisionists. They are completely split, contradicting each other.
By creating this vision I usually begin with the chemistry and next highlight the Kula Columns. We are off to a good start here, too because not only has nobody in the real world even heard of a Kula Column, but they cannot even be demonstrated to exist or make sense. Next are the holes, and another incredibly strong position for the revisionists as they don't exist.
The presence of mesh, wire columns, inside the Kremas, used to drop Zyklon B into, is evidenced by eyewitnesses and a document. The holes on the Krema roofs have been identified and for Kremas II and III, there are the aerial photos and for Krema II, the train photo. There is also eyewitness evidence for the holes.

What you assert is a strong position, is merely your assertions that evidence somehow, does not exist, or make sense.
By the end of this string of rhetoric, the revisionist vision of the world looks something like this, as pieced together by:

We have a B&W Polaroid given to us by the chemistry that HcN was never present there
But, it was present... :roll:
We added color to our Polaroid by the absence of Kula Columns meaning no murder weapon
The columns are evidenced.
We added sound by the absence of holes and again no murder weapon
The holes are evidenced.
We add 360 degree 4k resolution IMAX by analyzing the corpse disposal
And finally we turn our vision into a feature length Blockbuster by analyzing the fabrications and contradictions of the witnesses and Allies.

We don't have a "Blockbuster" without the chemistry, and as Nessie rightly said, if PB did form it would be game over for this vision before it even goes any where. In the end, not only is this vision of the world entirely cohesive and internally consistent, it is upheld by the chemistry in the very first instance.

In my experience this is a powerful way to explain this topic to interested White people, and especially at a time like this where everybody (and mostly Whites) is absolutely disgusted by the evil and immoral actions of these Zionists and Jewish /Holocaust activists in the world today. So yes slightly off-topic as Nazgul highlighted but I just wanted to center Nessie's post in the "why" chemistry is both limited but critically valuable.
A real blockbuster would be for you to trace evidence of people who worked inside the Kremas, who state they were not used for gassings and what did happen, or documents recording the transportation of people not selected for work, back out of the camp. Until you can actually revise the history of Birkenau and the Kremas, with evidence, you do not have a blockbuster.

Instead, you have little footnotes, like the low levels of HCN, that give you apparent footholds on which to base a denial, not a revision, of the gassing narrative.
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