No Sources, No History

[TlsMS93]

So, that testimony is no worry for us. It was just used to hang people and happens to contain impossible fantastic claims.

How about the magic coal at Auschwitz? Or was it magic furnaces?

The black liberators of buchenwald hoax?

Parading Irine Zisblatt around to grade schools?

It's all fine right? No big deal, just lie to me my entire life and then act incredulously when I don't believe everything. Because, you know, experts agree that coal is not necessary to operate a coal fired cremation oven. And you can just stack 5 bodies in there and it will be done in 15 minutes.

Don't forget, you can also remove 4,000,000 victims roughly from the total at majdanek and Auschwitz and not change the 6,000,000 figure, because, well those weren't jews. The guy that unironically cited Jankel Warnick, of fame for hits like the poop master and 'I got shot with a k98 at close range and all it did was tear a hole in my shirt and bounce of my shoulder' said so.

Look, you do a lot of cherry picking and counting hits and ignoring misses. I pick a cherry? Eh, it's just one. There are so many.

Going over the shoah foundation archives, if I didn't know any better, I'd think, by volume of testimony, that treblinka was a transit camp, where people were sterilized from lice, issued camp clothes and shoes, given a cup of 'terrible' coffee, and interviewed and assigned to a specific camp.

Apparently though, that is an evel nazi ruse. Because treblinka was a DEATH CAMP, and NOBODY GOT OUT ALIVE.

I'm sure all those people who said they were transited through, they were just confused. Because there was a guy that said, no no, we didn't steam them like lobsters, no, we used a captured Soviet diesel engine from a tank to gas them with carbon monoxide.

You know, because that makes sense. Use a Soviet tank engine so that you can just walk over to your nearest t34's are us and pick up all the intakes, conrods and head studs you need. It's not like anybody had a gasoline car engine anywhere that could actually produce enough co to be lethal.

The whole orthodox narrative is just so slap together and ramshackle. Inconsistent. Let's not forget also manicured, cultivated and constantly changing. There was no exhaust vent for krema I until the 1990's, then suddenly, oh, yes, of course there was an exhaust vent. Well where was it in the 'original state' 'chamber of death'?

Regarding the IMT and gas chambers at buchenwald,

The Trial of German Major War CriminalsSitting at Nuremberg, Germany
29th July to 8th August 1946

One Hundred and Ninety-Seventh Day: Wednesday, 7th August, 1946

It is right there. So, apparently Georg knew something nobody else did, he also knew where they got all the mythical wood for the open air cremations, they found a chemical you can put on a body to just burn it up completely with no wood. You just use it to start the fire and the bodies burn themselves, like magic.

Why waste scarce resources on cremation if the bodies were worth 50 marks to be turned into soap, fertilizers, etc.?

But Yad Vashem has already found 4.5 million victims of the Shoah, is Magda Goebbels still there?

[Stubble]

Why waste scarce resources on cremation if the bodies were worth 50 marks to be turned into soap, fertilizers, etc.?

But Yad Vashem has already found 4.5 million victims of the Shoah, is Magda Goebbels still there?

Don't forget highly coveted hair mattresses and the covert and stylish submariner's stealth slippers.

[TlsMS93]

Why waste scarce resources on cremation if the bodies were worth 50 marks to be turned into soap, fertilizers, etc.?

But Yad Vashem has already found 4.5 million victims of the Shoah, is Magda Goebbels still there?

Don't forget highly coveted hair mattresses and the covert and stylish submariner's stealth slippers.

Ben Abraham here in Brazil maintained this until the end of his life, that the bodies were used, nothing was wasted, like cattle.

In addition, he arrived at Auschwitz before the Germans, since he claimed to have been there for five and a half years. He must have opened the camp or turned on the ovens.

[Nessie]

....

Uhm, that link to the testimony is where I got everything above the link to it. It's in that testimony. He said there were gas chambers at buchenwald,

I cannot find that claim in the link. The references to gassing are Morgen describing what he was told by Wirth, who was on the T4 euthanasia project and commandant at Belzec. The references to illegal killings at Buchenwald do not say gas was used.

... that open air cremation was preformed at the camps in Poland using 'a special process' with no fuel.

Morgen never saw a pyre, so his evidence is unreliable hearsay.

He said that he discovered the 'extermination program' in the camps through the 'death certificates'. I mean, read that testimony. You buy all of that?

There was, without doubt, illegal killings in the concentration camps and corruption amongst the staff, as they murdered and plundered Jews. I do not "buy" everything Morgen said, especially when it is hearsay.

The college article was more to show that the propaganda campaign continues that much of anything else. This is still being shoved into the soft heads of impressionable children as they are being traumatized, in my opinion on purpose.

It is rubbish history, which can also be found about most historical events. I do not buy your suggestion it is part of an organised propaganda, that is conspiratorial thinking.

You tell me these are 'unreliable sources'. Well, they are inside the education system, and you do nothing to rectify this.

I do what I can, which is to correct false narratives online. Otherwise I am at a loss as to what you think I could do to correct US education.

Instead you expect me to believe that a body in a cremation oven will burn another body with no coal. You also expect me to buy the 6,000,000 schtick.

No I do not, I expect the complete opposite and for you to check such claims with reliable sources, so that you find coal was used in the Kremas and the 6 million death toll is higher than most historians give and at the top end of a range of figures.

You asked in a post in another thread 'well, were did the jews go'. They were relocated 'east'. Check the clarification in Der Speigel concerning the edit of the Korherr report.

That is what Korherr said he was told, but there is no evidence to prove millions of Jews were relocated to live in the Lublin area of the General Government. Korherr was lying, or he was lied to.

Then consider the statistical significance that the random jew picked to go on Montel Williams with Cole just so happened to have a living brother on the other side of the iron curtain that was not killed in a gas chamber. Then ask yourself how many of these style of reunions were prevented by trying to prop up and maintain a lie.

Reunions are a risk to blowing a hoax! The revisionist hoax needs millions of Jews to play dead, and not come forward with any evidence that instead of being gassed, they were accommodated by the Nazis and then liberated. If there was a hoax, no such reunions would be publicised.

The reason I don't believe you is because you cannot show me a narrative that passes muster. It doesn't make any sense.

I would direct you towards more reliable sources, primarily histories by historians, which have links to original sources. I would encourage you to check claims you doubt, such as pyres with no fuel, with multiple sources to check if they are correct.

Then, you tell me 'well your sources are bad'. Well, then argue to reform holocaust education and get everyone to stop lying to me.

I will do what I can.

The only thing I can find in my personal investigation of the holocaust is 6,000,000 lies.

How credible is it, for the Nazis to hide 6 million Jews knowing they were accused of murdering them, for the Allies to find them and keep them hidden and for them to play dead?

Henkel Wernukt as a credible witness? The list can go on and on and on. You will just dismiss each single point and say, 'well, historians agree' and 'well there is consensus that' without actually addressing the real points.

I have no idea who he is. I can go through witness testimony with you, and point out what is hearsay, exaggerated, mistaken etc and what is corroborated and at least in the main part, truthful.

No coal to burn the bodies? That's fine, an engineer said you can fit 6,000,000 bodies in 1 cremation oven and they burn themselves! Do you hear yourself? And you say I find bad sources?

I do not make those claims, bad sources do, resulting in you having a highly inaccurate impression of events. I am glad to see you are angry about that. I would be angry to find out what I had been taught was inaccurate.

[curioussoul]

The obscene verbosity and non-responsiveness of Terry is almost fascinating. To his credit, it requires a certain talent to be able to produce enormous walls of text (during working hours - damn, wish I could be a tax funded online debater) that have absolutely no bearing on the question at hand and serve only to masquerade as meaningful output.

In typical fashion he gets demolished by Callafangers. The very first exchange is indicative of how it normally goes: Terry invokes the "Schiessbefehl" as somehow being a piece of evidence for the Holocaust, but gets fact checked immediately and lo and behold, turns out he wasn't being quite honest. Anyone who remembers the HC feud with MGK will know that this is typical of Terry's debate tactics. It's never been about actual history, it's about sounding convincing to people who don't have the time, interest or resources to actually fact check his inanities, without ever having any real substance.

It's super disappointing. You'd think the orthodox side could muster something better than bombsaway, who at this stage appears to be the most capable representative of the orthodox side currently around.

[SanityCheck]

Regarding the IMT and gas chambers at buchenwald,

The Trial of German Major War CriminalsSitting at Nuremberg, Germany
29th July to 8th August 1946

One Hundred and Ninety-Seventh Day: Wednesday, 7th August, 1946

It is right there.

No, it isn't.

This is a cross-examination of a SS officer Reinecke describing the investigation of Karl Koch the former commandant of Buchenwald mainly on corruption charges, *and* how the commission under Konrad Morgen investigated five camps, including Auschwitz, so the references to gas (all of seven) are to Auschwitz or questions being asked to clarify, without anyone talking about gas chambers at Buchenwald.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/08-07-46.asp

This is exactly the kind of discussion that could have led Shawcross and others (reporters, for example) to conflate different camps, but they were all mistaken. Such mistakes happpen, and more often immediately after the war. Get over it.

The rest is a low-grade Gish Gallop that has nothing to do with the OP in a meaningful sense.

[Stubble]

That was quite the day.

My apologies for not providing more clarity.

. PELCKMANN continues his direct examination of Georg Konrad Morgen

This disposition.

So far as the execution by the SS of Komandant Koch, it was for the unauthorized killing of 3 detainees at buchenwald, correct?

Not the killing of 2,000,000 at majdanek with poison gas.

I just want to ask for clarity here. Because after being assigned as komandant of buchenwald, during the kerfuffle, Koch was reassigned to majdanek.

Concerning the other claptrap, Irine Zisblatt is pertinent because that is a bias and incorrect source, yet it is and was promoted. That's a problem. It leads to situations such as we find ourselves in currently.

The black liberators hoax is much the same problem.

The coal problem also goes to the point of the thread. A source that says bodies burn other bodies in a cremation ovens is a bad source. I don't care if he was an engineer. That's not how cremation, entropy or heat exchange work.

The method of execution at treblinka is of note as well, because both the source testimony and the method of execution make no sense and are not physically possible. At least they moved away from the vacuum chambers of death and steam execution hoaxes generated by the Polish Government in Exile as Black Propaganda.

See, they knew everybody died in all the concentration and labor camps and transit camps, they just didn't know how. They only knew that it was everyone, all the time.

[SanityCheck]

That was quite the day.

My apologies for not providing more clarity.

. PELCKMANN continues his direct examination of Georg Konrad Morgen

This disposition.

Sorry, you'll need to provide a direct quote and link. The page for the day you mentioned mentions Buchenwald 18 times without mentioning gas chambers in connection to this camp, and gas seven times while connecting this to Auschwitz and not to Buchenwald.

[Stubble]

That was quite the day.

My apologies for not providing more clarity.

. PELCKMANN continues his direct examination of Georg Konrad Morgen

This disposition.

Sorry, you'll need to provide a direct quote and link. The page for the day you mentioned mentions Buchenwald 18 times without mentioning gas chambers in connection to this camp, and gas seven times while connecting this to Auschwitz and not to Buchenwald.

I've edited my previous post and expounded some.

I will also edit this one to provide the pertinent quote, in the mean time, here is the page number and a bit of reading to get us started.

Page 382

'Q. Did you gain the impression, and at what time, that the concentration camps were places for the extermination of human beings?

A. I did not gain this impression. A concentration camp is not a place for the extermination of human beings. I must say that my first visit to a concentration camp, namely Weimar-Buchenwald, was a great surprise to me. The camp was on wooded heights, with a wonderful view. The installations were clean and freshly painted. There were grass and flowers. The prisoners were healthy, normally fed, sun- tanned, working -

THE PRESIDENT: When are you speaking of? When are you speaking of?

A. I am speaking of the beginning of my investigations in July, 1943.

Q. What crimes - you may continue - please, be more brief.

A. The installations of the camp were in good order, especially the hospital. The camp authorities, under the Commandant Diester, aimed at providing the prisoners with an existence worthy: of human beings. They had regular mail service. They had a large camp library, even with foreign books. They had variety shows, motion pictures, sporting events. They even had a brothel. Nearly all the other concentration camps were similar to Buchenwald.

THE PRESIDENT: What was it they even had?

A. A brothel.'

I'm going to grab the exact quote about the gas chambers at buchenwald now.

This is a bit cagey, but, here you go. You can argue about the bunker if you like.

'Q. How did you reach the suspicion that killings had occurred?

A. I learned that the starting-point was the assignment of Jews to the camps after "Action 38." I had to learn all possible facts about this action, and in doing so I was obliged to notice that the majority of prisoners of whom it could be assumed that they might know something about these cases, had died. This peculiar frequency of killings was noticeable - I noticed it - because other prisoners who were not in any key positions remained in Buchenwald for years in the best of health, and were still there, so that it was rather remarkable that it was just certain prisoners who could have been witnesses who had died. I thereupon examined the files concerning these deceased prisoners. The files themselves did not then give cause to suspect illegal killings. The dates of the deaths were years apart, and the different causes of death were always given. But I noticed that the majority of these deceased prisoners, shortly before their death, had been put into the camp hospital or were in the detention quarters. This first aroused my suspicion that in these two places murders of prisoners might possibly have occurred. Thereupon I appointed a special official, whose sole task was to investigate the suspicious circumstances, and rumours which were circulating in the detention quarters, the so-called "Bunker," regarding the killing of prisoners. He was a very zealous and able criminal official, but he had to report again and again that he had not found the least confirmation of this suspicion of mine. After two weeks of completely unsuccessful activity, the criminal official refused to continue his task and asked me ironically whether I myself believed that such, rumours of illegal killing of prisoners could be true. Only by accident, much later, was I put on the trail. I noticed that in the case of certain prisoners, in the books of the Kommandantur prison, and in the hospital books, they had been recorded in both books at the same time. In the prison book, for example, it said, "Date of release, 9th May, 12 o'clock." In the hospital register, "Patient died 9th May, 9.15 a.m." I said to myself, this prisoner cannot be in the Kommandantur Prison and at the same time a patient in the hospital. False entries must have been made here. I therefore concentrated my efforts on this and I succeeded in finding out about this system, for it was a system under Kommandant Koch.

The prisoners were taken to a secret place and were killed there, mostly in a cell of the Kommandantur prison, and sick reports and death certificates were prepared for the files. They were made out so cleverly that any unsuspecting reader of the documents would get the impression that the prisoner concerned had actually been treated and had died of the serious illness which was indicated.'

Or we can argue the use of t4 facilities I suppose.

To me 'the bunker' is pretty clear.

[SanityCheck]

That was quite the day.

My apologies for not providing more clarity.

. PELCKMANN continues his direct examination of Georg Konrad Morgen

This disposition.

Sorry, you'll need to provide a direct quote and link. The page for the day you mentioned mentions Buchenwald 18 times without mentioning gas chambers in connection to this camp, and gas seven times while connecting this to Auschwitz and not to Buchenwald.

I've edited my previous post and expounded some.

I will also edit this one to provide the pertinent quote, in the mean time, here is the page number and a bit of reading to get us started.

Page 382

Q. Did you gain the impression, and at what time, that the concentration camps were places for the extermination of human beings?

A. I did not gain this impression. A concentration camp is not a place for the extermination of human beings. I must say that my first visit to a concentration camp, namely Weimar-Buchenwald, was a great surprise to me. The camp was on wooded heights, with a wonderful view. The installations were clean and freshly painted. There were grass and flowers. The prisoners were healthy, normally fed, sun- tanned, working -

THE PRESIDENT: When are you speaking of? When are you speaking of?

A. I am speaking of the beginning of my investigations in July, 1943.

Q. What crimes - you may continue - please, be more brief.

A. The installations of the camp were in good order, especially the hospital. The camp authorities, under the Commandant Diester, aimed at providing the prisoners with an existence worthy: of human beings. They had regular mail service. They had a large camp library, even with foreign books. They had variety shows, motion pictures, sporting events. They even had a brothel. Nearly all the other concentration camps were similar to Buchenwald.

THE PRESIDENT: What was it they even had?

A. A brothel.

I'm going to grab the exact quote about the gas chambers at buchenwald now.

This is a bit cagey, but, here you go. You can argue about the bunker if you like.

Q. How did you reach the suspicion that killings had occurred?

A. I learned that the starting-point was the assignment of Jews to the camps after "Action 38." I had to learn all possible facts about this action, and in doing so I was obliged to notice that the majority of prisoners of whom it could be assumed that they might know something about these cases, had died. This peculiar frequency of killings was noticeable - I noticed it - because other prisoners who were not in any key positions remained in Buchenwald for years in the best of health, and were still there, so that it was rather remarkable that it was just certain prisoners who could have been witnesses who had died. I thereupon examined the files concerning these deceased prisoners. The files themselves did not then give cause to suspect illegal killings. The dates of the deaths were years apart, and the different causes of death were always given. But I noticed that the majority of these deceased prisoners, shortly before their death, had been put into the camp hospital or were in the detention quarters. This first aroused my suspicion that in these two places murders of prisoners might possibly have occurred. Thereupon I appointed a special official, whose sole task was to investigate the suspicious circumstances, and rumours which were circulating in the detention quarters, the so-called "Bunker," regarding the killing of prisoners. He was a very zealous and able criminal official, but he had to report again and again that he had not found the least confirmation of this suspicion of mine. After two weeks of completely unsuccessful activity, the criminal official refused to continue his task and asked me ironically whether I myself believed that such, rumours of illegal killing of prisoners could be true. Only by accident, much later, was I put on the trail. I noticed that in the case of certain prisoners, in the books of the Kommandantur prison, and in the hospital books, they had been recorded in both books at the same time. In the prison book, for example, it said, "Date of release, 9th May, 12 o'clock." In the hospital register, "Patient died 9th May, 9.15 a.m." I said to myself, this prisoner cannot be in the Kommandantur Prison and at the same time a patient in the hospital. False entries must have been made here. I therefore concentrated my efforts on this and I succeeded in finding out about this system, for it was a system under Kommandant Koch.

The prisoners were taken to a secret place and were killed there, mostly in a cell of the Kommandantur prison, and sick reports and death certificates were prepared for the files. They were made out so cleverly that any unsuspecting reader of the documents would get the impression that the prisoner concerned had actually been treated and had died of the serious illness which was indicated.

Or we can argue the use of t4 facilities I suppose.

To me 'the bunker' is pretty clear.

There's nothing about gas chambers in here at all. 'Bunker' here refers to cooler, dungeon, as noted a detention quarter. The use of bunker as a cover name for some of the gas chambers at Auschwitz does not mean this always meant gas chamber. No historian, museum curator or other specialist to my knowledge has ever claimed that

You're seeing things that aren't there in this quote.

[Stubble]

Sorry, you'll need to provide a direct quote and link. The page for the day you mentioned mentions Buchenwald 18 times without mentioning gas chambers in connection to this camp, and gas seven times while connecting this to Auschwitz and not to Buchenwald.

I've edited my previous post and expounded some.

I will also edit this one to provide the pertinent quote, in the mean time, here is the page number and a bit of reading to get us started.

Page 382

Q. Did you gain the impression, and at what time, that the concentration camps were places for the extermination of human beings?

A. I did not gain this impression. A concentration camp is not a place for the extermination of human beings. I must say that my first visit to a concentration camp, namely Weimar-Buchenwald, was a great surprise to me. The camp was on wooded heights, with a wonderful view. The installations were clean and freshly painted. There were grass and flowers. The prisoners were healthy, normally fed, sun- tanned, working -

THE PRESIDENT: When are you speaking of? When are you speaking of?

A. I am speaking of the beginning of my investigations in July, 1943.

Q. What crimes - you may continue - please, be more brief.

A. The installations of the camp were in good order, especially the hospital. The camp authorities, under the Commandant Diester, aimed at providing the prisoners with an existence worthy: of human beings. They had regular mail service. They had a large camp library, even with foreign books. They had variety shows, motion pictures, sporting events. They even had a brothel. Nearly all the other concentration camps were similar to Buchenwald.

THE PRESIDENT: What was it they even had?

A. A brothel.

I'm going to grab the exact quote about the gas chambers at buchenwald now.

This is a bit cagey, but, here you go. You can argue about the bunker if you like.

Q. How did you reach the suspicion that killings had occurred?

A. I learned that the starting-point was the assignment of Jews to the camps after "Action 38." I had to learn all possible facts about this action, and in doing so I was obliged to notice that the majority of prisoners of whom it could be assumed that they might know something about these cases, had died. This peculiar frequency of killings was noticeable - I noticed it - because other prisoners who were not in any key positions remained in Buchenwald for years in the best of health, and were still there, so that it was rather remarkable that it was just certain prisoners who could have been witnesses who had died. I thereupon examined the files concerning these deceased prisoners. The files themselves did not then give cause to suspect illegal killings. The dates of the deaths were years apart, and the different causes of death were always given. But I noticed that the majority of these deceased prisoners, shortly before their death, had been put into the camp hospital or were in the detention quarters. This first aroused my suspicion that in these two places murders of prisoners might possibly have occurred. Thereupon I appointed a special official, whose sole task was to investigate the suspicious circumstances, and rumours which were circulating in the detention quarters, the so-called "Bunker," regarding the killing of prisoners. He was a very zealous and able criminal official, but he had to report again and again that he had not found the least confirmation of this suspicion of mine. After two weeks of completely unsuccessful activity, the criminal official refused to continue his task and asked me ironically whether I myself believed that such, rumours of illegal killing of prisoners could be true. Only by accident, much later, was I put on the trail. I noticed that in the case of certain prisoners, in the books of the Kommandantur prison, and in the hospital books, they had been recorded in both books at the same time. In the prison book, for example, it said, "Date of release, 9th May, 12 o'clock." In the hospital register, "Patient died 9th May, 9.15 a.m." I said to myself, this prisoner cannot be in the Kommandantur Prison and at the same time a patient in the hospital. False entries must have been made here. I therefore concentrated my efforts on this and I succeeded in finding out about this system, for it was a system under Kommandant Koch.

The prisoners were taken to a secret place and were killed there, mostly in a cell of the Kommandantur prison, and sick reports and death certificates were prepared for the files. They were made out so cleverly that any unsuspecting reader of the documents would get the impression that the prisoner concerned had actually been treated and had died of the serious illness which was indicated.

Or we can argue the use of t4 facilities I suppose.

To me 'the bunker' is pretty clear.

There's nothing about gas chambers in here at all. 'Bunker' here refers to cooler, dungeon, as noted a detention quarter. The use of bunker as a cover name for some of the gas chambers at Auschwitz does not mean this always meant gas chamber. No historian, museum curator or other specialist to my knowledge has ever claimed that

You're seeing things that aren't there in this quote.

Then let's look at the original source for Auschwitz, because if someone says bunker and concentration camp together, that means execution using cyclone pellets (not disks mind you) in a cold damp room with no heat to execute the greatest number of people physically able to fit in the room phone booth style.

Because 'the first killings took place in the bunker at Auschwitz' evolved into 'an experimental gassing'. Because that's how we understand history you see. It 'evolved'. Well, why didn't this 'evolve'? Because it was on the allied side of the iron curtain and could have been investigated, like dachau.

[Stubble]

I have no idea who he is. I can go through witness testimony with you, and point out what is hearsay, exaggerated, mistaken etc and what is corroborated and at least in the main part, truthful.

Jankel Warnick is the fellow upon whom the diesel engine death chamber, open air cremations on railroad tracks, heaps of bodies buried abutting the drinking water well and various other outlandish claims made regarding treblinka rely.

This is of great interest to me regarding the holocaust because I lack the cognitive dissonance necessary to reconcile it.

I have no doubt that he spent a year in treblinka. I approach his memoir with great scepticism because of its contents and their detachment from reality.

[Nessie]

I have no idea who he is. I can go through witness testimony with you, and point out what is hearsay, exaggerated, mistaken etc and what is corroborated and at least in the main part, truthful.

Jankel Warnick is the fellow upon whom the diesel engine death chamber...

He did not say the engine was diesel, he did not say what fuel was used. I am sorry, but yet again you have been misinformed and the faulty information you have has lead you to making faulty conclusions.

... open air cremations on railroad tracks,

Every single witness who worked in the camp when pyres started, states that is how they were set. Local Polish witnesses speak to months of burning and the smell from the camp. The archaeological evidence find large areas of cremated remains. The pyres were set in a way that was similar to the pyre found by the Americans when they liberated Ohrdruf, and even though it was smaller, the heat was enough to bend the rails.

https://www.dla.mil/About-DLA/Images/ig ... 002289758/

... heaps of bodies buried abutting the drinking water well and various other outlandish claims made regarding treblinka rely.

Where did that claim come from?

This is of great interest to me regarding the holocaust because I lack the cognitive dissonance necessary to reconcile it.

You use rubbish sources and get misinformation.

I have no doubt that he spent a year in treblinka. I approach his memoir with great scepticism because of its contents and their detachment from reality.

You should be more neutral and look to see what he claimed, is corroborated by other evidence. Take your opinion out of the equation. You previously said:

"The method of execution at treblinka is of note as well, because both the source testimony and the method of execution make no sense and are not physically possible."

Every single eyewitness to the gassings (so not people who may have worked at the camp, but who did not see gassings) agrees that an engine was used to produce exhaust fumes. No one said it was a diesel engine. What is physically impossible about that method?

[Stubble]

I have no idea who he is. I can go through witness testimony with you, and point out what is hearsay, exaggerated, mistaken etc and what is corroborated and at least in the main part, truthful.

Jankel Warnick is the fellow upon whom the diesel engine death chamber...

He did not say the engine was diesel, he did not say what fuel was used. I am sorry, but yet again you have been misinformed and the faulty information you have has lead you to making faulty conclusions.

... open air cremations on railroad tracks,

Every single witness who worked in the camp when pyres started, states that is how they were set. Local Polish witnesses speak to months of burning and the smell from the camp. The archaeological evidence find large areas of cremated remains. The pyres were set in a way that was similar to the pyre found by the Americans when they liberated Ohrdruf, and even though it was smaller, the heat was enough to bend the rails.

https://www.dla.mil/About-DLA/Images/ig ... 002289758/

... heaps of bodies buried abutting the drinking water well and various other outlandish claims made regarding treblinka rely.

Where did that claim come from?

This is of great interest to me regarding the holocaust because I lack the cognitive dissonance necessary to reconcile it.

You use rubbish sources and get misinformation.

I have no doubt that he spent a year in treblinka. I approach his memoir with great scepticism because of its contents and their detachment from reality.

You should be more neutral and look to see what he claimed, is corroborated by other evidence. Take your opinion out of the equation. You previously said:

"The method of execution at treblinka is of note as well, because both the source testimony and the method of execution make no sense and are not physically possible."

Every single eyewitness to the gassings (so not people who may have worked at the camp, but who did not see gassings) agrees that an engine was used to produce exhaust fumes. No one said it was a diesel engine. What is physically impossible about that method?

Let me get this straight here, I want to be as clear as possible about this particular piece of the lore.

Are you, here and now, telling me that the method of execution was not a Soviet tank engine that was diesel powered? You are going to stand by that, and say that it was an engine, not specifically a diesel engine from a Soviet tank?

"According to Martin Gilbert’s book Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. Many writers say that these diesel engines were obtained from captured Russian submarines, but according to the Nizkor Project, they were large 500 BHP engines from captured Soviet T-34 tanks. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers"

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/hi ... -treblinka

There are other sources, like the testimony of the 'camp mechanic' but, this should pass as a 'trusted' source to you.

The drinking water/burial pit correlation comes from the map of the plots and the physical location of the water head.

[Nessie]

....

You should be more neutral and look to see what he claimed, is corroborated by other evidence. Take your opinion out of the equation. You previously said:

"The method of execution at treblinka is of note as well, because both the source testimony and the method of execution make no sense and are not physically possible."

Every single eyewitness to the gassings (so not people who may have worked at the camp, but who did not see gassings) agrees that an engine was used to produce exhaust fumes. No one said it was a diesel engine. What is physically impossible about that method?

Let me get this straight here, I want to be as clear as possible about this particular piece of the lore.

Are you, here and now, telling me that the method of execution was not a Soviet tank engine that was diesel powered? You are going to stand by that, and say that it was an engine, not specifically a diesel engine from a Soviet tank?

The witnesses to gassings, as in those who worked at the gas chambers, Jewish and Nazi, agree it was a Soviet engine, but not specifically one from a tank, though that is what Wiernik said and none of them said it was diesel. They either, like Wiernik did not say what fuel it used, or they said it was petrol.

The "piece of lore" is revisionists, started by FP Berg, who picked up on hearsay descriptions, by people who thought it was a diesel engine, but they did not work at the chambers, or on the engine. It is inaccurate hearsay, which led to a mistaken conclusion. You can maybe see a theme here, of inaccuracy by revisionists.

The drinking water/burial pit correlation comes from the map of the plots and the physical location of the water head.

Which map? This one has a well (5) as far from the graves as it was possible, with a water pump (37) situated nearer the graves, probably for washing down the gas chambers and if the prisoners got to drink it, the Nazis would not have cared about that.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic/bmap9.jpg