Comments on other threads.

[Nessie]

How could someone possibly prove that there are no unicorns ?!?

A lack of unicorn specimens, remains, imagery or physical evidence to prove they exist would be suitable evidence. If you researched unicorns, you would find they are a literary invention, from mythology, with no physical evidence to prove they existed.

Or in other words, the lack of tangible evidence for the existence of unicorns proves that there are no unicorns, making unicorn denial equivalent to Holocaust denial. QED

The lack of tangible evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews transported to the AR camps being transported back out and their existence somewhere else, proves that Holocaust denier claims of resettlement did not happen.

If unicorns existed, they would leave evidence of their existence. If millions of Jews were not murdered 1939-44, then millions of Jews would leave evidence of their existence in 1944.

You are operating under the faulty belief that a negative claim that something did not happen or exist, has no burden of proof.

Are you claiming that biologists must prove that unicorns don't exist or else unicorns exist ?

No. I am making the point that you were wrong to claim that proving a negative is not possible and that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

[borjastick]

How could someone possibly prove that there are no unicorns ?!?

A lack of unicorn specimens, remains, imagery or physical evidence to prove they exist would be suitable evidence. If you researched unicorns, you would find they are a literary invention, from mythology, with no physical evidence to prove they existed.

Or in other words, the lack of tangible evidence for the existence of unicorns proves that there are no unicorns, making unicorn denial equivalent to Holocaust denial. QED

You are operating under the faulty belief that a negative claim that something did not happen or exist, has no burden of proof.

Are you claiming that biologists must prove that unicorns don't exist or else unicorns exist ?

Yes because these low IQ buffoons thinks that if we cannot precisely know where all the jewish inmates of the camps went to they must have been deaded in dem camps. They are also the buffoons who think the IDF is the most moral army in the world, and women can have a penis.

[Stubble]

A lack of unicorn specimens, remains, imagery or physical evidence to prove they exist would be suitable evidence. If you researched unicorns, you would find they are a literary invention, from mythology, with no physical evidence to prove they existed.

Or in other words, the lack of tangible evidence for the existence of unicorns proves that there are no unicorns, making unicorn denial equivalent to Holocaust denial. QED

You are operating under the faulty belief that a negative claim that something did not happen or exist, has no burden of proof.

Are you claiming that biologists must prove that unicorns don't exist or else unicorns exist ?

Yes because these low IQ buffoons thinks that if we cannot precisely know where all the jewish inmates of the camps went to they must have been deaded in dem camps. They are also the buffoons who think the IDF is the most moral army in the world, and women can have a penis.

It's worse actually.

[Nessie]

A lack of unicorn specimens, remains, imagery or physical evidence to prove they exist would be suitable evidence. If you researched unicorns, you would find they are a literary invention, from mythology, with no physical evidence to prove they existed.

Or in other words, the lack of tangible evidence for the existence of unicorns proves that there are no unicorns, making unicorn denial equivalent to Holocaust denial. QED

You are operating under the faulty belief that a negative claim that something did not happen or exist, has no burden of proof.

Are you claiming that biologists must prove that unicorns don't exist or else unicorns exist ?

Yes because these low IQ buffoons thinks that if we cannot precisely know where all the jewish inmates of the camps went to they must have been deaded in dem camps. They are also the buffoons who think the IDF is the most moral army in the world, and women can have a penis.

That is yet another tired, faulty excuse for your inability to find any of the millions of Jews you say were not killed, 1939-44.
If there had been no mass shootings or gassing, by 1944 the Nazis would have had millions of Jews in camps and ghettos. That would leave a lot of evidence, and there is nothing. All the ghettos had closed. Many of the camps had also closed and the largest, A-B, was smaller in 1944 than it had been in 1943.

Faced with that evidence, it is no wonder you divert to using logical fallacies and insults.

[Nessie]

Hektor needs to learn about evidencing.

viewtopic.php?p=25128#p25128

At best shoes prove the existence of shoes, not what happened to the person that wore them previously. But they are great for innuendo and manipulating the gullible.

The huge piles of shoes is physical evidence that people supposedly being sent for resettlement, were not resettled, as they would need their shoes. The shoes should not be cherry-picked as just one piece of evidence. As well as the shoes, everything the Jews arrived with was taken from them, including other items they had been told to bring with them for resettlement, such as some clothing, all valuables and one suitcase each. That all of those items also ended up with the shoes, is circumstantial evidence that fits with the evidence of mass murder. It is also consistent with the lack of evidence of mass resettlement.

There is no innuendo or manipulation, as historians are able to evidence a chronology of events with a conclusion. Jews are rounded up at the ghettos, told to get one suitcase and fill it with what they need for resettlement. They are transported to certain camps, where all that property is taken from them, they are killed and the property is sorted and sold. The evidence of that comes primarily from Nazi sources, camp staff and documents. There is an attempt to destroy much of the evidence, but that task ultimately fails.

Revisionists cannot do that and it is they who rely on innuendo and manipulation, to try and promote the Holocaust denial hoax.

[Nessie]

HansHill is learning about witnesses;

viewtopic.php?p=24869#p24869

Another interesting facet of the Hoess """confession""" is his repeated misspelling of "Tremblinka". This misstated name occurs multiple times in his April 5th affidavit. It is difficult to envision a man of Hoess's rank and local specialist knowledge making this mistake repeatedly.

It yet again looks more like Hoess's confession is a mirror of the knowledge of his interrogators, rather than his own.

That does happen. Witnesses will mirror interviewer's words, so it is possible the mistake over "Tremblinka" was made by one of his interrogators and Hoess decided to go along with it, rather than make a correction. How someone is interviewed has a huge impact on their statement. Leading or open questions will get different responses. How much the interviewer knows compared to the interviewee impacts on the information gleaned. An interviewer who already knows a lot about what happened, is in a strong position to challenge, correct or trip up the interviewee.

In Hoess's case, there was already evidence to prove that A-B had been used for mass killings and it had gas chambers. That meant Hoess was in a very weak position compared to his interrogators. He may have decided that, having already been subjected to beatings, that he would not risk challenging an interrogator over the spelling of Treblinka.

[Eye of Zyclone]

The lack of tangible evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews transported to the AR camps being transported back out and their existence somewhere else, proves that Holocaust denier claims of resettlement did not happen.

If unicorns existed, they would leave evidence of their existence. If millions of Jews were not murdered 1939-44, then millions of Jews would leave evidence of their existence in 1944.

You're aware that no population census was performed in Russia and Eastern Europe after WW2, aren't you?

Yitzhak Arad

Yitzhak Arad (November 11, 1926 – May 6, 2021) was an Israeli historian, author, IDF brigadier general and Soviet partisan. He also served as Yad Vashem's director from 1972 to 1993, and specialised in the history of the Holocaust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Arad

No. I am making the point that you were wrong to claim that proving a negative is not possible and that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

Were the gas chambers of WW1 (rehashed and further developed during WW2) real because no historian proved that they weren't ?
Ditto for the Belzec electrocution chambers, the Treblinka steam chambers and the Auschwitz lethal conveyor belt.
Ditto for the Kuwaiti incubator babies killed by Iraqi soldiers in 1990, the weapons of mass destruction produced & piled up by Saddam Hussein in 2003, and the babies decapitated by Hamas in 2023 and by Iran in 2026.

[Nessie]

The lack of tangible evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews transported to the AR camps being transported back out and their existence somewhere else, proves that Holocaust denier claims of resettlement did not happen.

If unicorns existed, they would leave evidence of their existence. If millions of Jews were not murdered 1939-44, then millions of Jews would leave evidence of their existence in 1944.

You're aware that there was no population census in Russia and Eastern Europe after WW2, aren't you?

Every Eastern European country, from Poland which was not part of the Soviet Union, to Latvia, which was, have subsequently reported huge drops in their Jewish populations. The Nazis recorded huge drops in the Jewish population during the war. Local people all over Eastern Europe saw their Jewish neighbours disappear and few, if any return, with many of them taking over the empty houses, farms and businesses.

You are also ignoring that I am referring to Nazi occupied Europe, in 1944. Why have they not recorded millions of Jews they arrested, still in the camps and ghettos? Why have you jumped forward to after the war? Do you not understand chronology?

No. I am making the point that you were wrong to claim that proving a negative is not possible and that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

Were the gas chambers of WW1 (rehashed and further developed during WW2) real because no historian proved that they weren't ?
Ditto for the Belzec electrocution chambers, the Treblinka steam chambers and the Auschwitz lethal conveyor belt.
Ditto for the Kuwaiti incubator babies killed by Iraqi soldiers in 1990, the weapons of mass destruction produced & piled up by Saddam Hussein in 2003, and the babies decapitated by Hamas in 2023 and by Iran in 2026.

Thank you for providing more examples of claims made that have since been evidenced to be false. So you are wrong to claim you cannot prove a negative. If there had been no gas chambers and mass murders, there would be both evidence and a lack of evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and other sources to prove that. For example, if the Kremas were not used for gassings, there would be evidence from people who worked there, who stated there were no gas chambers and you would not find a witness who said that there were gas chambers.

[Eye of Zyclone]

In Hoess's case, there was already evidence to prove that A-B had been used for mass killings and it had gas chambers.

No there wasn't. There was only witchcraft trial "evidence," that is, mendacious testimonies and extorted false confessions.

The usual orthodox/antirevisionist evasion :

[Eye of Zyclone]

Thank you for providing more examples of claims made that have since been evidenced to be false. So you are wrong to claim you cannot prove a negative.

Well tried, but those things were not evidenced to be false. Propagandists just stopped telling those lies because the victorious powers didn't select them for posterity after the end of the wars in which they were used as weapons of psychological warfare, and time did the rest to more or less erase them from public memory.

If there had been no gas chambers and mass murders, there would be both evidence and a lack of evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and other sources to prove that. For example, if the Kremas were not used for gassings, there would be evidence from people who worked there, who stated there were no gas chambers and you would not find a witness who said that there were gas chambers.

Too bad witness testimonies never proved anything.

What kind of documents could possibly prove that those rooms were not gas chambers ? The blueprints says that they were morgues (Leichenkeller), but orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that they were gas chambers in spite of that. Documents say what things were/are (positive), NOT what they were/are not (negative).

[HansHill]

Thank you for providing more examples of claims made that have since been evidenced to be false. So you are wrong to claim you cannot prove a negative.

Well tried, but those things were not evidenced to be false. Propagandists just stopped telling those lies because the victorious powers didn't select them for posterity after the end of the wars in which they were used as weapons of psychological warfare, and time did the rest to more or less erase them from public memory.

If there had been no gas chambers and mass murders, there would be both evidence and a lack of evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and other sources to prove that. For example, if the Kremas were not used for gassings, there would be evidence from people who worked there, who stated there were no gas chambers and you would not find a witness who said that there were gas chambers.

Too bad witness testimonies never proved anything.

What kind of documents could possibly prove that those rooms were not gas chambers ? The blueprints says that they were morgues (Leichenkeller), but orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that they were gas chambers in spite of that. Documents say what things were/are (positive), NOT what they were/are not (negative).

Zyclone yet again getting the better of Nessie. What Nessie would do in this situation is called a No True Scottsman Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Zyclone is correct in demonstrating the documents describe the rooms as morgues. Nessie will say this doesn't really count for arbitrary reasons, making it not truly evidence.

[Stubble]

The lack of tangible evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews transported to the AR camps being transported back out and their existence somewhere else, proves that Holocaust denier claims of resettlement did not happen.

If unicorns existed, they would leave evidence of their existence. If millions of Jews were not murdered 1939-44, then millions of Jews would leave evidence of their existence in 1944.

You're aware that no population census was performed in Russia and Eastern Europe after WW2, aren't you?

Yitzhak Arad

Yitzhak Arad (November 11, 1926 – May 6, 2021) was an Israeli historian, author, IDF brigadier general and Soviet partisan. He also served as Yad Vashem's director from 1972 to 1993, and specialised in the history of the Holocaust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Arad

No. I am making the point that you were wrong to claim that proving a negative is not possible and that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

Were the gas chambers of WW1 (rehashed and further developed during WW2) real because no historian proved that they weren't ?
Ditto for the Belzec electrocution chambers, the Treblinka steam chambers and the Auschwitz lethal conveyor belt.
Ditto for the Kuwaiti incubator babies killed by Iraqi soldiers in 1990, the weapons of mass destruction produced & piled up by Saddam Hussein in 2003, and the babies decapitated by Hamas in 2023 and by Iran in 2026.

How many years does that provide for the diaspora to have taken place? I've always found it odd that short of the interwar period and the great depression, the jewish birthrate has been at replacement and after the war it was so static.

jewish population study is an odd thing.

[Nessie]

In Hoess's case, there was already evidence to prove that A-B had been used for mass killings and it had gas chambers.

No there wasn't. There was only witchcraft trial "evidence," that is, mendacious testimonies and extorted false confessions.

The usual orthodox/antirevisionist evasion :

You constantly ignore the fact that millions of Jews were missing at the end of the war. The Allies, many of whom had at times assisted the Nazis, from Norway to France to Italy to Greece, in rounding up and transporting Jews, knew that they had disappeared. There were millions of displaced persons, but only a few hundred thousand were Jewish. The camp liberations had also only resulted in the finding of a few hundred thousand Jews. That is circumstantial evidence.

From 1941-5, the Western Press had been reporting on mass killings. The Allied governments would have known even more from intelligence reports that were subject to secrecy rules. That is documentary and physical evidence.

Then there were widespread admissions from camp staff, with none putting forward any evidence to prove mass survival and resettlement. There were also already numerous Jewish prisoner testimonies. That is eyewitness evidence.

You are a Holocaust denier, because you deny and minimise the volume of evidence for mass killings.

[Nessie]

Thank you for providing more examples of claims made that have since been evidenced to be false. So you are wrong to claim you cannot prove a negative.

Well tried, but those things were not evidenced to be false. Propagandists just stopped telling those lies because the victorious powers didn't select them for posterity after the end of the wars in which they were used as weapons of psychological warfare, and time did the rest to more or less erase them from public memory.

They were evidenced to be false, or there was no evidence to substantiate them. The Dachau gas chamber is a very good example of how evidence determined if there had been mass killing and gas chambers at a camp.

If there had been no gas chambers and mass murders, there would be both evidence and a lack of evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and other sources to prove that. For example, if the Kremas were not used for gassings, there would be evidence from people who worked there, who stated there were no gas chambers and you would not find a witness who said that there were gas chambers.

Too bad witness testimonies never proved anything.

They all corroborated and proved the use of gas chambers. You underestimate how all courts find that when an accused and witnesses agree with each other, that is strong corroboration.

What kind of documents could possibly prove that those rooms were not gas chambers ? The blueprints says that they were morgues (Leichenkeller), but orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that they were gas chambers in spite of that. Documents say what things were/are (positive), NOT what they were/are not (negative).

Documents that recorded the numbers of corpses stored each day would prove the Leichenkellers were not being used for gassing. Or, for those who believe they were used for delousing or showering, documents that referenced that happening. Or, a document that stated there was an awareness of rumours of gas chambers and a visit had been arranged with the ICRC to inspect them. Then, of course, documents that recorded what happened to those people not selected for work, proving that they left Birkenau alive, that would do.

Your lack of experience in any sort of investigation and bias have clouded your mind. You just cannot think of the type of evidence that would result if there had been no gas chambers and everyone who arrived at Birkenau lived beyond the selection process. You know that there is evidence of the survival of those selected to work, but are not bothered by the lack of evidence for those not selected for work. If they had survived they would need guarding, transporting, feeding and accommodating. That would leave records and witnesses to it happening.

[Nessie]

Thank you for providing more examples of claims made that have since been evidenced to be false. So you are wrong to claim you cannot prove a negative.

Well tried, but those things were not evidenced to be false. Propagandists just stopped telling those lies because the victorious powers didn't select them for posterity after the end of the wars in which they were used as weapons of psychological warfare, and time did the rest to more or less erase them from public memory.

If there had been no gas chambers and mass murders, there would be both evidence and a lack of evidence from eyewitnesses, documents and other sources to prove that. For example, if the Kremas were not used for gassings, there would be evidence from people who worked there, who stated there were no gas chambers and you would not find a witness who said that there were gas chambers.

Too bad witness testimonies never proved anything.

What kind of documents could possibly prove that those rooms were not gas chambers ? The blueprints says that they were morgues (Leichenkeller), but orthodox/antirevisionist historians claim that they were gas chambers in spite of that. Documents say what things were/are (positive), NOT what they were/are not (negative).

Zyclone yet again getting the better of Nessie.

I have shown his claim that proving a negative is impossible and his understanding of the burden of proof, are wrong.

What Nessie would do in this situation is called a No True Scottsman Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Zyclone is correct in demonstrating the documents describe the rooms as morgues. Nessie will say this doesn't really count for arbitrary reasons, making it not truly evidence.

The documents that record the Kremas have having been originally designed with corpse stores, are evidence. There is then evidence from other documents and eyewitnesses, that those corpse stores were the rooms converted into gas chambers. The result is a chronology of how the Kremas were originally designed and then converted. The original Krema designers were put on trial in Austria, where the defence of not knowing what the corpse cellars were to be later to be used for, was accepted. The Topf & Sons engineers, who designed and managed the conversion to gas chambers, were held responsible for their actions.

So-called revisionists cannot produce chronologies like that. They fail at the basic task of any historical or criminal investigation, which is evidencing what took place. A genuine revision would need evidence, such as both the original designers and the engineers from Topf & Sons to deny the existence of gas chambers and show what the Leichenkellers were used for.