Name a Single Jew Transited Through the Reinhardt Camps To The East!

[fireofice]

Jack Spiegel

It would indeed appear that the transports in May and July 1942 were not the only convoys of Polish Jews to reach Bobruisk. In 1993 the American-Jewish writer Joseph J. Preil interviewed Jack Spiegel, born in Łódź in 1918. According to Preil’s summary of the interview, Spiegel was deported in October 1942 from Warsaw to Minsk, and from there sent on to Bobruisk, where he was detained in a camp until March 1944:

He remembers a ‘horrible welcome.’ The officer said, ‘If you work, all will be fine. If not…’ He took a pistol and killed a person. After two months in Bobruisk, only one hundred of the three hundred men who had been in his bunk remained alive. The others were regularly murdered, especially on Sundays. […]. In that camp, only ninety-one people were left alive from the original three thousand.

After Bobruisk, JS moved quickly from camp to camp: ‘Minsk – a very short stay; Majdanek – one week; Bedzin – April until November or December 1944; Mielec – two weeks; Wieliczka – two weeks.’ […]. JS was then moved from Poland to Germany: ‘Flossenbürg – two weeks; Hersbruck – summer 1944 until March 1945; Dachau – until liberated by Americans on April 29, 1945.’

By October 1942 the great evacuation of the Warsaw Ghetto had ceased. However, the last Jewish transport from Warsaw in 1942 departed on 21 September (carrying 2,196 Jews). According to mainstream historians these Jews were gassed at Treblinka. Could it be that Jack Spiegel was part of the 21 September 1942 convoy but erroneously remembered the departure as having taken place in October? It seems very unlikely, on the other hand, that Spiegel would have erroneously recalled a May or July transport as having taken place in October.

https://codoh.com/library/document/evid ... st-part-3/

The actual interview can be found here:

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn504781

The relevant part starts at 37:45, and you can confirm that the description is indeed accurate.

Now yes, he doesn't technically say he went through one of the Reinhard camps, but it's completely reasonable to think he did get transited through Treblinka to Minsk. That is the default assumption unless it can be shown otherwise. Given the surrounding evidence and timing of a train sent from the Warsaw Ghetto to Treblinka (he likely confused September and October), the burden of proof is now on the orthodoxy to prove he didn't go through it.

[bombsaway]

I ran the transcript through AI

Here's what Jack Spiegel says about his transport from Warsaw to Minsk/Bobruisk:
Timing:

"They caught me in 19-- at that time October, November in 1942."
More specifically: "To 1942, October-- October."
The interviewer later confirms: "You came in October '42."

Circumstances of capture:

His father had just died of typhoid in the Warsaw ghetto hospital
"I took out that bridge... When we come to the camp in Bobruisk, there was then, the Germans, and asked if somebody had money, jewelry, anything-- out. Otherwise you'd get shot."
"I buried my father. I have his bridge... I went looking to sell it. They caught me on the street. And they took me... at umschlagplatz."

The route:

Warsaw → Minsk → Bobruisk
About Minsk: "the Minsk was like Lublin. In Poland, it was, like, a transfer camp."
"Oh, so how long were you in Minsk?" "Minsk was a couple weeks."

Details about his arrival at Bobruisk:

"We come there, 1,500 people." (Though he may be referring to total numbers, not just his transport)
When asked about his specific shipment: "In my shipment, 50."

Importantly: Spiegel never mentions going through Treblinka or any of the Reinhard camps. He describes a direct route: Warsaw ghetto → Minsk (transfer camp) → Bobruisk.

[fireofice]

I ran the transcript through AI

Here's what Jack Spiegel says about his transport from Warsaw to Minsk/Bobruisk:
Timing:

"They caught me in 19-- at that time October, November in 1942."
More specifically: "To 1942, October-- October."
The interviewer later confirms: "You came in October '42."

Circumstances of capture:

His father had just died of typhoid in the Warsaw ghetto hospital
"I took out that bridge... When we come to the camp in Bobruisk, there was then, the Germans, and asked if somebody had money, jewelry, anything-- out. Otherwise you'd get shot."
"I buried my father. I have his bridge... I went looking to sell it. They caught me on the street. And they took me... at umschlagplatz."

The route:

Warsaw → Minsk → Bobruisk
About Minsk: "the Minsk was like Lublin. In Poland, it was, like, a transfer camp."
"Oh, so how long were you in Minsk?" "Minsk was a couple weeks."

Details about his arrival at Bobruisk:

"We come there, 1,500 people." (Though he may be referring to total numbers, not just his transport)
When asked about his specific shipment: "In my shipment, 50."

Importantly: Spiegel never mentions going through Treblinka or any of the Reinhard camps. He describes a direct route: Warsaw ghetto → Minsk (transfer camp) → Bobruisk.

The AI doesn't add anything I haven't already conceded though. He probably went through Treblinka, even though he doesn't explicitly say it.

[bombsaway]

Even if I were to accept that logic, that he went through Treblinka because it was on the way (well not really it would have been a few miles diversion), he says multiple times he left in October. You state it must have been September, without any justification.

[fireofice]

Even if I were to accept that logic, that he went through Treblinka because it was on the way (well not really it would have been a few miles diversion), he says multiple times he left in October. You state it must have been September, without any justification.

Are there any documented transports from Warsaw to Minsk in October 1942? Just to be sure I ran it through ChatGPT and it came up empty. Maybe you'll have better luck. From the looks of it, it appears all deportations from the Warsaw Ghetto stopped in September 1942 and didn't pick up again until 1943, so this appears to be a mistake on his part and he meant September.

[bombsaway]

Even if I were to accept that logic, that he went through Treblinka because it was on the way (well not really it would have been a few miles diversion), he says multiple times he left in October. You state it must have been September, without any justification.

Are there any documented transports from Warsaw to Minsk in October 1942? Just to be sure I ran it through ChatGPT and it came up empty. Maybe you'll have better luck. From the looks of it, it appears all deportations from the Warsaw Ghetto stopped in September 1942 and didn't pick up again until 1943, so this appears to be a mistake on his part and he meant September.

Is it necessary for all, even small transports to be documented? We don't know who he was sent to Minsk with, he says 50 people?

I think what you have here is a 'maybe' went through Treblinka

He wasn't a candidate for resettlement as he was clearly a strong and hardy worker

Himmler's note about resettlement of the GG makes clear this was for non-working Jews.

[fireofice]

Is it necessary for all, even small transports to be documented? We don't know who he was sent to Minsk with, he says 50 people?

I think what you have here is a 'maybe' went through Treblinka

He wasn't a candidate for resettlement as he was clearly a strong and hardy worker

Himmler's note about resettlement of the GG makes clear this was for non-working Jews.

Oh now all deportations to the East don't have to be documented. Interesting.

Even if it was mostly Jews unable to work that were deported, it doesn't follow all of them were. Plenty of Jews able to work were exterminated according to orthodoxy. They may also have needed labor in Minsk for whatever reason.

Appealing to possibility won't get you far here. Sure, it's possible, but do you have any evidence to make it probable?

[Nessie]

....

Appealing to possibility won't get you far here. Sure, it's possible, but do you have any evidence to make it probable?

That is the preserve of the so-called revisionists. They cannot produce evidence to revise the history of what happened. When they try, their attempts are so poor, that they cannot even agree amongst themselves. They come with the AR camps were, transit camps, customs stops, stops to change train because of the Soviet gauge difference, hygiene stations to prevent the spread of disease and property sorting centres.

[Keen]

....

Appealing to possibility won't get you far here. Sure, it's possible, but do you have any evidence to make it probable?

That is the preserve of the so-called revisionists. They cannot produce evidence to revise the history of what happened. When they try, their attempts are so poor, that they cannot even agree amongst themselves. They come with the AR camps were, transit camps, customs stops, stops to change train because of the Soviet gauge difference, hygiene stations to prevent the spread of disease and property sorting centres.

Now compare that to the reality deniers "magic locations" where jews turn to liquid while interned in "huge mass graves" then "magically disappear" (exept for their hair - for some unknown reason, jewish hair doesn't burn) when dug out and burned on "roasters" that work without fuel because those evil natsies figured out a way to stack the bodies "just right."

[TlsMS93]

The Revisionists are accused of not presenting documents transporting Jews from Birkenau to other locations, but the selectivity here seems to suggest that transport documents aren't necessary. Interesting, to say the least.

[Nessie]

The Revisionists are accused of not presenting documents transporting Jews from Birkenau to other locations, but the selectivity here seems to suggest that transport documents aren't necessary. Interesting, to say the least.

There is no evidence, from any source, including documents, to prove that there were mass transports of people back out of the AR camps. When so-called revisionists attempt to evidence a different purpose for those camps, they fall apart into disagreement. No claim is well enough evidenced for the so-called revisionists to reach a consensus. That is why they are so-called revisionists, because they cannot revise the history of AR.

[Nazgul]

There is no evidence, from any source, including documents, to prove that there were mass transports of people back out of the AR camps.

There is no evidence of mass transports arriving at the camps, especially in the light of transports stopping at multiple sites of Jewish labour camps for extended periods.

There were multiple labour camps at Belzec and the presence of Toll Officers at Sobibor is telling. SS would only drink with their own, they were an elite organization, unlike the Sturmabteilung, not drink with some customs officer nearby unless those customs were working in collaboration with SS responsibilities. This would only happen if people were moving over the border, in which the SS and Customs had joint responsibility and deep respect for each other.

The relaxed man sitting in the chair below is an officer of the Zollgrenzschutz (customs) at Sobibor from the Niemann images.


Each of the alleged death camps Nessie refers to as AR camps were on the border until the Reich expanded. It was only on the 20th July 1944 that the Zollgrenzschutz were placed within amt IV of the RSHA commonly known as the Gestapo. Niemann was murdered on October 1943 during the Sobibor uprising staged by a Russian agent.
The head of the Zollgrenzschutz or customs officers was Friedrich Rudolph (Fritz) Reinhardt. Under him were the Tax and Customs School – set up by him in 1935 – and the Zollgrenzschutz ("Customs Service"). It was one of the components of the programs aimed at reducing unemployment, which collectively were also known as the Reinhardt Program.

[Nessie]

There is no evidence, from any source, including documents, to prove that there were mass transports of people back out of the AR camps.

There is no evidence of mass transports arriving at the camps,

You are a bare faced liar. There is documentary and eyewitness evidence of mass transports arriving at the camps. There is no point in continuing with the discussion, when you lie so blatantly.

[Nazgul]

You are a bare faced liar. There is documentary and eyewitness evidence of mass transports arriving at the camps. There is no point in continuing with the discussion, when you lie so blatantly.

Of course people arrived at the camps. Your eye witnesses are mainly spies. You once relied on the Fplo documents as did Hilberg as proof of mass transports to the destination; however, I proved that those transports stopped at either Jewish Labour camps or railway junctions to other Jewish labour camps. Unless you have more than spies as eye witnesses or those under duress, please do not continue.

[Nessie]

You are a bare faced liar. There is documentary and eyewitness evidence of mass transports arriving at the camps. There is no point in continuing with the discussion, when you lie so blatantly.

Of course people arrived at the camps.

IOW, you lied.

Your eye witnesses are mainly spies.

Liar. The majority of eyewitness for mass arrivals are Nazi, SS staff who worked at the camps.

You once relied on the Fplo documents as did Hilberg as proof of mass transports to the destination;

Liar. I have never relied on the Fplos. I used corroborating evidence from multiple eyewitnesses and documents, the Stroop Report, Ganzenmueller Letter and Hofle Telegram.

however, I proved that those transports stopped at either Jewish Labour camps or railway junctions to other Jewish labour camps. Unless you have more than spies as eye witnesses or those under duress, please do not continue.

Stop lying about the evidence I have and use. You failed to prove Jews left the trains at the stops.