Examples of the argument from incredulity.

[Nessie]

So-called Holocaust revisionism relies heavily on the logical fallacy of argument from incredulity. This thread will be filled with many examples of that.

"AI Overview
Personal incredulity is not an argument – Rev. Brent L. White
The argument from incredulity (or personal incredulity) is an informal logical fallacy asserting that a proposition is false because it is difficult to imagine, understand, or believe, or true because one cannot conceive of it being false."

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/log ... ncredulity

"Argument from Incredulity
(also known as: argument from personal astonishment, argument from personal incredulity, personal incredulity)
Description: Concluding that because you can't or refuse to believe something, it must not be true, improbable, or the argument must be flawed. This is a specific form of the argument from ignorance."

Callafangers;

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21891#p21891

You cannot say, "historically, there were 800,000 Jews buried at exactly X location" while simultaneously not be saying, "there are scientifically-verifiable traces of the scale upwards of 800,000 Jews buried at exactly X location." This holds true unless you can explain within reason how these traces (e.g., vast volumes of stratified ash/bone equivalent to city populations, fuel logistics at unprecedented scales) may have disappeared. Either way, you are well-within the realm of science; not just historiography.

Callafangers thinks that because he does not find the archaeological evidence that there were c800,000 Jews buried and/or cremated at TII convincing, that is evidence to prove no such number were buried and/or cremated there.

[Nessie]

Stubble;

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21892#p21892

If you expect me to believe that the population of Seattle was buried in a 2 acre plot (the extermination area at Treblinka II), you are going to have to show me where. This applies equally with a quarter of a million at Sobibor etc. The physical evidence such as it is does not support the claim, neither does the Polish Commission report that turned up, what exactly? At Treblinka II? I believe the exact words from the 13 Apostles of Treblinka were 'no mass graves were found'. You can't hand wave that away with a piece of paper and some words. The history as given does not comport with reality.

Stubble also does not believe the physical finds at the AR camps are sufficient to prove mass graves and cremations and thinks that is enough to prove there were no such graves and cremations.

[Nessie]

This thread uses the argument from incredulity in its title.

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=290

"Implausibility of gassing as a method for mass killing"

...the Holocaust story is so unplausible right from the outset, before even starting to look at specific evidence...

The Holocaust is prima facie implausible, therefore it did not happen and we hardly need to bother with the evidence!

[Nessie]

Borjastick,

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21817#p21817

Here's another fun question or two which proves the holocaust could not have happened.

Why is it that in the camps which are supposed to have been death camps no mass graves or bodies or evidence of mass murder exists yet in the mainly German based camps such as Belsen the bodies were left in their thousands for all to see. How is it possible that in a 'death camp' all evidence was magically disappeared and yet in a normal camp it wasn't? If it was possible to cremate all these millions of bodies in Auschwitz, Majdanek, Sobibor, Treblinka in a very short period of time in ovens that could not have handled such volumes, and then dispose of the thousands of tons of cremains such that they were never seen again, why not in the other camps on Western soil was this planning and facility nowhere to be seen or implemeted.

He cannot get his head round certain questions he poses, and argues the means no mass murder happened. The question he raises, about there being no evidence of mass murder, is false. The suggestion that the evidence of mass graves at the AR camps "magically disappeared" is also false. Those false claims are used to support his incredulity about mass murder, and he uses that incredulity to support his disbelief.

[Nessie]

Potpie,

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21839#p21839

There are more holes in the gassing narrative than a block of Swiss cheese, but to touch on a couple of them, yes the Soviets built a chimney that connects to nothing. Why would they do that if gassings really happened? As far as NSDAP records go, the records of arrivals and departures from Auschwitz-Birkenau are missing and in their place, we have things such as Communist Jewish-authored Auschwitz Kalendarium by Marxist camp resistance member Danuta Czech and her collaborators which has been a gold standard source for "holocaust history" books

He cannot figure out why a chimney at Krema I was built after the war, erroneously thinking it was built by the Soviets. His ignorance is used to fuel his disbelief. It is easier to believe that the Soviets would try to hoax the world, than the Poles, who in fact built the chimney. He concludes it is all a hoax.

Many records of arrivals and departures are not missing, so again, his ignorance is fuelling his disbelief.

[Nessie]

Potpie, again,

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21851#p21851

10) Hundreds of tonnes human ash and bone fragments must have been generated. These have never been found and little effort has been made to locate such an obvious bit of evidence for the 'Holocaust' thesis not even field walking which is normal archaeological practice.

This is yet another. The claim is that 1 million were murdered at Auschwitz-Birkenau and the ashes dumped into the Vistula River, yet that river was never reported choked with all that ash, nor has anyone presented anything resembling any amount of human bone fragments from the cremation process anywhere along that river. There should be fragments and other remains everywhere. There aren't, and even the help of AI can't locate anything. In spite of years of dredging, drought, and other activities along this waterway, nobody has found physical evidence of human ash dumping into the Vistula, period. Each body, according to AI, yields 4-7 lbs or 2-3 kg of ash. Multiply that by 1 million. Massive amounts missing from the riverbed and sea floor that should be there. These are such large amounts, that frankly, dumping in a short period of time could even outright form an artificial dam in a river, backing it up for miles, spreading the evidence everywhere. Yet it didn't happen and aerial photography likewise doesn't show that, either.

It just didn't happen.

He cannot work out, to his satisfaction, or believe, how it was possible to dispose of all the cremation ashes at Auschwitz and concludes it did not happen.

[Nazgul]

He cannot figure out why a chimney at Krema I was built after the war, erroneously thinking it was built by the Soviets. His ignorance is used to fuel his disbelief. It is easier to believe that the Soviets would try to hoax the world, than the Poles, who in fact built the chimney. He concludes it is all a hoax.

He seems to assume the chimney at Krema I must have been a Soviet construction, but in reality it was built by the postwar Polish authorities. While Poland at the time was effectively a vassal of Moscow, day-to-day administration and infrastructure projects were handled locally. That said, given the historical record of the Soviets attempting to attribute their own crimes to others — for example, at Katyn , Kurapaty and Volnytsia — it is possible that Soviet influence could have played a role in shaping how postwar projects were documented or interpreted. Many records of arrivals and departures are intact, which adds context to the discussion.

[Keen]

He cannot work out, to his satisfaction, or believe, how it was possible to dispose of all the cremation ashes at Auschwitz

[Keen]

Callafangers thinks that because he does not find the archaeological evidence that there were c800,000 Jews buried and/or cremated at TII convincing, that is evidence to prove no such number were buried and/or cremated there.

BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II

Are the remains of 2.145 million Jews really buried in the 100 alleged “scientifically proven” mass graves?

(The labeling of asking this legitimate adjudicable question as “hate / antisemitic” is your first clue that they do not want you to know what the answer is.)

OPENING / FUNDAMENTAL STATEMENT OF FACT: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the bodies and burnt remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of Jews were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive, unsubstantiated allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 100 graves in question that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these five sites, in which verified human remains have been uncovered / tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

Note: Using the information presented on this website and applying legal standards used in U.S. courts, the above opening / fundamental statement of fact, which is written as, and can be defined as - a rebuttable presumption - can be - LEGALLY - ACCEPTED - AS - TRUE - in a U.S. court.

Foundational legal question: Is it reasonable to doubt that the remains of 2.145 million Jews are currently buried in the 100 specifically identified locations in question - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Foundational legal principles that easily expose this transparent archaeological hoax: BURDEN OF PRODUCTION, BURDEN OF PERSUASION & BURDEN OF PROOF.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people. (That is less than one tenth of one one thousandth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.)

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

What are you waiting for roberta?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

Stubble also does not believe the physical finds at the AR camps are sufficient to prove mass graves and cremations and thinks that is enough to prove there were no such graves and cremations.

BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II

Are the remains of 2.145 million Jews really buried in the 100 alleged “scientifically proven” mass graves?

(The labeling of asking this legitimate adjudicable question as “hate / antisemitic” is your first clue that they do not want you to know what the answer is.)

OPENING / FUNDAMENTAL STATEMENT OF FACT: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the bodies and burnt remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of Jews were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive, unsubstantiated allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 100 graves in question that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these five sites, in which verified human remains have been uncovered / tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

Note: Using the information presented on this website and applying legal standards used in U.S. courts, the above opening / fundamental statement of fact, which is written as, and can be defined as - a rebuttable presumption - can be - LEGALLY - ACCEPTED - AS - TRUE - in a U.S. court.

Foundational legal question: Is it reasonable to doubt that the remains of 2.145 million Jews are currently buried in the 100 specifically identified locations in question - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Foundational legal principles that easily expose this transparent archaeological hoax: BURDEN OF PRODUCTION, BURDEN OF PERSUASION & BURDEN OF PROOF.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people. (That is less than one tenth of one one thousandth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.)

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

What are you waiting for roberta?

What are you so afraid of?

[Keen]

The suggestion that the evidence of mass graves at the AR camps "magically disappeared" is also false. Those false claims are used to support his incredulity about mass murder, and he uses that incredulity to support his disbelief.

BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II

Are the remains of 2.145 million Jews really buried in the 100 alleged “scientifically proven” mass graves?

(The labeling of asking this legitimate adjudicable question as “hate / antisemitic” is your first clue that they do not want you to know what the answer is.)

OPENING / FUNDAMENTAL STATEMENT OF FACT: It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II, the bodies and burnt remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of Jews were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive, unsubstantiated allegations to the contrary, the truth is, the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 100 graves in question that are fraudulently alleged to have been “scientifically proven” to currently exist at these five sites, in which verified human remains have been uncovered / tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, contained the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

Note: Using the information presented on this website and applying legal standards used in U.S. courts, the above opening / fundamental statement of fact, which is written as, and can be defined as - a rebuttable presumption - can be - LEGALLY - ACCEPTED - AS - TRUE - in a U.S. court.

Foundational legal question: Is it reasonable to doubt that the remains of 2.145 million Jews are currently buried in the 100 specifically identified locations in question - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Foundational legal principles that easily expose this transparent archaeological hoax: BURDEN OF PRODUCTION, BURDEN OF PERSUASION & BURDEN OF PROOF.

...

A - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of - at least 2 people. (That is less than one tenth of one one thousandth of one percent of the alleged mass murder.)

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

What are you waiting for roberta?

What are you so afraid of?

[Nessie]

Callafangers is totally unconvinced that mass cremations on pyres, were possible;

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21957#p21957

...none approach AR camps' alleged biblical scale (e.g., Treblinka's 280M kg wood as the largest burning operation ever, totally unevidenced). Smaller sites like Plaszow or Poniatowa had docs/witnesses for modest pyres, not mega-operations. Your "significantly easier to organise" is pure hand-waving; quantify the wood/process for even your reduced Treblinka toll (350kg/corpse still dwarfs everything) -- where's the supply chain or relentless Polish testimony to acrid smoke/mushroom clouds blanketing homes for months?

He thinks that if he makes a convincing case that mass pyres were unevidenced, that he can dismiss them. He promotes a huge amount of wood being needed and then questions why there is no evidence of wood being taken to the camp. That ignores the evidence from prisoners that they went out to gather wood and that AR camps got wood delivered from Polish saw mills. His claim, about 350kg of wood per corpse, is based on his estimations, which he makes as high as he thinks he can get away with. He ignores, or does not know about, witness evidence of months of burning coming from the camp.

He is listing why he thinks mass pyres are physically impossible, too unbelievable to accept and thinks that his opinion is of evidential value that proves there were no mass pyres that cremated hundreds of thousands of corpses. That opinion is contradicted by the evidence of months of mass cremations on pyres.

[Nazgul]

He is listing why he thinks mass pyres are physically impossible, too unbelievable to accept and thinks that his opinion is of evidential value that proves there were no mass pyres that cremated hundreds of thousands of corpses. That opinion is contradicted by the evidence of months of mass cremations on pyres.

Looking strictly at the documented facts for this Treblinka site—based on the elders at Wólka Okrąglik and Wiernik’s map—there was an Arbeitslager where prisoners worked in the quarry and two Judenlager for holding prisoners. There is no evidence of large-scale wood collection or forests sufficient to support mass cremation of hundreds of thousands of corpses. While claims of 750,000 cremated have been made, the logistics simply do not match the documented conditions: the labor pool and available fuel at this location could not have supported such operations.

Claim: 750,000 cremated

If we take the open-air pyre estimate of ~165 kg wood per corpse:

750,000×165 kg≈123,750,000 kg=123,750 tonne of wood

That’s an enormous amount of wood, equivalent to clearing ~7–8 km² of dense forest. There is no evidence such clearing took place nor was there the manpower to do so.

[Nessie]

Nazgul expresses the reasons for his incredulity about the mass pyres at TII.

He is listing why he thinks mass pyres are physically impossible, too unbelievable to accept and thinks that his opinion is of evidential value that proves there were no mass pyres that cremated hundreds of thousands of corpses. That opinion is contradicted by the evidence of months of mass cremations on pyres.

Looking strictly at the documented facts for this Treblinka site—based on the elders at Wólka Okrąglik and Wiernik’s map—there was an Arbeitslager where prisoners worked in the quarry and two Judenlager for holding prisoners. There is no evidence of large-scale wood collection or forests sufficient to support mass cremation of hundreds of thousands of corpses. While claims of 750,000 cremated have been made, the logistics simply do not match the documented conditions: the labor pool and available fuel at this location could not have supported such operations.

Claim: 750,000 cremated

If we take the open-air pyre estimate of ~165 kg wood per corpse:

750,000×165 kg≈123,750,000 kg=123,750 tonne of wood

That’s an enormous amount of wood, equivalent to clearing ~7–8 km² of dense forest. There is no evidence such clearing took place nor was there the manpower to do so.

His incredulity is based on a lack of evidence of large scale wood gathering and for logistical reasons.

It is wrong to assume that a lack of evidence means there was no large scale wood gathering or delivery to the camp. No documents from TII survive, so it stands to reason any records of wood gathered by prisoners, or transported to the camp from further afield, were destroyed. Poland had large forests, many wood yards and saw mills and the camp had a train link, that could be used to deliver wood.

He then uses a lower figure than Callafangers, as to how much wood was needed to cremate each corpse, with 165kg as opposed to 350kg. Both figures are estimations, at best educated guesses. That he cannot believe, or work out how mass pyres were possible, based on his best guessing, is not evidence to prove there were no such pyres.

[Archie]

Stubble;

https://codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=21892#p21892

If you expect me to believe that the population of Seattle was buried in a 2 acre plot (the extermination area at Treblinka II), you are going to have to show me where. This applies equally with a quarter of a million at Sobibor etc. The physical evidence such as it is does not support the claim, neither does the Polish Commission report that turned up, what exactly? At Treblinka II? I believe the exact words from the 13 Apostles of Treblinka were 'no mass graves were found'. You can't hand wave that away with a piece of paper and some words. The history as given does not comport with reality.

Stubble also does not believe the physical finds at the AR camps are sufficient to prove mass graves and cremations and thinks that is enough to prove there were no such graves and cremations.

All he says here is, "you are going to have to show me where." He is demanding evidence for an extraordinary claim. That is not a fallacy. That is good thinking.