A request to Confused Jew

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Callafangers
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Callafangers »

Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:16 am
One tiny part of the basement, I am not even sure if it was the Leichenkeller, can be accessed to be viewed. Sampling is limited because of the collapsed roof. The highest test sample result was 640ug/kg of CN. Is that essentially zero, or are you misrepresenting the evidence, again?
It is essentially zero because it is within the range of the control samples (inmate barracks, etc., where even you would not be so absurd as to claim 'gassings' occurred). Yes, that makes it essentially zero, since it does nothing whatsoever to support your claims (quite the contrary). Cyanide was present in the camps -- it killed lice, this is its well-documented purpose, and one which a morgue filled with lice-infested corpses would not be exempt from. The epidemic is a proven fact of this camp, one which explains some minimal levels of FeCN just about everywhere. What remains unexplained is the extreme disparity between the levels necessary for your claims to be true, and these measurements, which are the best quality measurements we have to-date.

If you wish to challenge whether it was in the Leichenkeller, good luck. Perhaps you can be the first to demolish Rudolf where Green and Markiewicz (and others more qualified than you) have failed. I do hope you try.
To those who still believe it: grow up. To those lying about it consciously: may you burn in hell.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

Callafangers wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:23 am
Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:16 am
One tiny part of the basement, I am not even sure if it was the Leichenkeller, can be accessed to be viewed. Sampling is limited because of the collapsed roof. The highest test sample result was 640ug/kg of CN. Is that essentially zero, or are you misrepresenting the evidence, again?
It is essentially zero because it is within the range of the control samples (inmate barracks, etc., where even you would not be so absurd as to claim 'gassings' occurred). Yes, that makes it essentially zero, since it does nothing whatsoever to support your claims (quite the contrary). Cyanide was present in the camps -- it killed lice, this is its well-documented purpose, and one which a morgue filled with lice-infested corpses would not be exempt from. The epidemic is a proven fact of this camp, one which explains some minimal levels of FeCN just about everywhere. What remains unexplained is the extreme disparity between the levels necessary for your claims to be true, and these measurements, which are the best quality measurements we have to-date.

If you wish to challenge whether it was in the Leichenkeller, good luck. Perhaps you can be the first to demolish Rudolf where Green and Markiewicz (and others more qualified than you) have failed. I do hope you try.
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... port.shtml

"The results of analyses are presented in Tables I-IV. They unequivocally show that the cyanide compounds occur in all the facilities that, according to the source data, were in contact with them. On the other hand, they do not occur in dwelling accommodations, which was shown by means of control samples. The concentrations of cyanide compounds in the samples collected from one and the same room or building show great differences. This indicates that the conditions that favour the formation of stable compounds as a result of the reaction of hydrogen cyanide with the components of the walls, occur locally."

It is not as simple as you make it out to be. You also fail to take into account how limited sampling is, considering the destruction of the Kremas and farm houses and modifications to Krema I. No building is anything like it was when in use during the war and in use for gassings.

Fact is, any levels now will not be what they were in 1941-4, so making definitive conclusions, as you try to do, is wrong.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:49 am https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... port.shtml

"The results of analyses are presented in Tables I-IV. They unequivocally show that the cyanide compounds occur in all the facilities that, according to the source data, were in contact with them. On the other hand, they do not occur in dwelling accommodations, which was shown by means of control samples. The concentrations of cyanide compounds in the samples collected from one and the same room or building show great differences. This indicates that the conditions that favour the formation of stable compounds as a result of the reaction of hydrogen cyanide with the components of the walls, occur locally."

It is not as simple as you make it out to be. You also fail to take into account how limited sampling is, considering the destruction of the Kremas and farm houses and modifications to Krema I. No building is anything like it was when in use during the war and in use for gassings.

Fact is, any levels now will not be what they were in 1941-4, so making definitive conclusions, as you try to do, is wrong.
Markiewicz's study is bunk. Scroll up, he tells you in black and white he omits the study of long term stable cyanide compounds because he doesn't understand the chemistry involved.

From YOUR study that YOU cited:
It is hard to imagine the chemical reactions and physicochemical processes that could have led to the formation of Prussian blue in that place.
He is telling you he is incompetent to analyse this dataset
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 10:51 am
Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:49 am https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... port.shtml

"The results of analyses are presented in Tables I-IV. They unequivocally show that the cyanide compounds occur in all the facilities that, according to the source data, were in contact with them. On the other hand, they do not occur in dwelling accommodations, which was shown by means of control samples. The concentrations of cyanide compounds in the samples collected from one and the same room or building show great differences. This indicates that the conditions that favour the formation of stable compounds as a result of the reaction of hydrogen cyanide with the components of the walls, occur locally."

It is not as simple as you make it out to be. You also fail to take into account how limited sampling is, considering the destruction of the Kremas and farm houses and modifications to Krema I. No building is anything like it was when in use during the war and in use for gassings.

Fact is, any levels now will not be what they were in 1941-4, so making definitive conclusions, as you try to do, is wrong.
Markiewicz's study is bunk. Scroll up, he tells you in black and white he omits the study of long term stable cyanide compounds because he doesn't understand the chemistry involved.

From YOUR study that YOU cited:
It is hard to imagine the chemical reactions and physicochemical processes that could have led to the formation of Prussian blue in that place.
He is telling you he is incompetent to analyse this dataset
He is casting doubt that HCN caused the staining.

"Brick, unlike other building materials, very feebly absorbs hydrogen cyanide, it sometimes does not even absorb it at all. Besides, iron occurring in it is at the third oxidation state, whereas bivalent iron ions are indispensable for the formation of the [Fe(CN)6]-4 ion, which is the precursor of Prussian blue. This ion is, besides, sensitive to the sunlight.
J. Bailer (1) writes in the collective work "Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit" that the formation of Prussian blue in bricks is simply improbable"

"It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms."

Prussian blue's appearence is inconsistent, so its appearence, or non-appearence, is not a definitive indicator of the presence of HCN. The Majdanek gas chamber walls are not consistent, with lots of staining on some walls, or parts of wall and none on others.

Image

It is clearly not as simple as staining means high use of HCN, no staining means low or no use, as you suggest. For all you know, that is what the gas chambers inside Kremas IV, V and the two farm houses looked like, as they were also stained.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 11:46 am
He is casting doubt that HCN caused the staining.

"Brick, unlike other building materials, very feebly absorbs hydrogen cyanide, it sometimes does not even absorb it at all. Besides, iron occurring in it is at the third oxidation state, whereas bivalent iron ions are indispensable for the formation of the [Fe(CN)6]-4 ion, which is the precursor of Prussian blue. This ion is, besides, sensitive to the sunlight.
J. Bailer (1) writes in the collective work "Amoklauf gegen die Wirklichkeit" that the formation of Prussian blue in bricks is simply improbable"

"It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms."

Prussian blue's appearence is inconsistent, so its appearence, or non-appearence, is not a definitive indicator of the presence of HCN. The Majdanek gas chamber walls are not consistent, with lots of staining on some walls, or parts of wall and none on others.

Image

It is clearly not as simple as staining means high use of HCN, no staining means low or no use, as you suggest. For all you know, that is what the gas chambers inside Kremas IV, V and the two farm houses looked like, as they were also stained.
!!!!

I am going to take you at your word that you don't understand these arguments. The PB at the delousing chambers is caused by cyanide exposure. We know this because the cyanide readings are off the charts, and PB formation is a very well understood chemical reaction. That Markiewicz ignores and tells you he is ignoring it, is very poor.

Even Green concedes this point for the delousing chambers:
The Prussian-Blue staining indeed owes its presence to exposure to HCN
Green's sole issue with Rudolf isn't the presence of PB at the delousing chambers, but the absence of PB at the homicidal gas chambers. He then goes on to say exactly the same as I have been saying in this thread since page 1, and many other threads:
We agree with Rudolf that it would have been nice if Markiewicz et al. had tested for total
cyanides as well as cyanides not complexed to iron.
You are a slop merchant.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 2:46 pm ... but the absence of PB at the homicidal gas chambers...
How do you know it was absent from the gas chambers?

How do you explain its absence at certain delousing chambers?
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

"How do you know it was absent from the gas chambers?"

Your entire argument is centered around reasons why it cannot be expected to form in the gas chambers. Are you suggesting its formation is possible / expected?

"How do you explain its absence at certain delousing chambers?"

I don't have my notes in front of me, kindly send me a delousing chamber or fumigation chamber absent of PB and I'll take a look.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by bombsaway »

Callafangers wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 8:22 am
bombsaway wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:17 am
You're assuming that the paint would necessarily last decades without serious failure / erosion right?

The only direct evidence of resettlement in Russia is the Korherr report, otherwise you're relying on plans, which can change.
Wrong and, uhh, wrong.

Paint isn't documented by anyone, anywhere. There is nothing which says it exists, other than a proven serial liar (Mueller). It is you assuming that all of the paint would have eroded (even in covered/sheltered areas), so that no one (even those in your camp) would ever so much as make a note of it.

The Soviets "reconstructed" certain 'chambers', and guess what -- no paint! Guess they didn't consider it a common feature, either, even in their immediate postwar occupation of the camp.

There is truly not a shred of evidence supporting your desperate, clawing attempt to explain away the lack of FeCN. You've exhausted all other avenues and so "must be paint" is your last, whimpering cry... the death throes of exterminationism. One loves to hear it.

On the other hand, the direct evidence of a policy of resettlement to the East is almost overwhelming (with gaps only in those precise areas we'd expect from mendacious postwar powers gaining control over the records and archives). In fact, evacuation for resettlement is the latest and only official, documented Final Solution policy.

Plans can indeed change (say, to genocide) but it is precisely this "change" which is totally unevidenced, neither by documents nor anything measurable.
Has there been any tests of fragments deemed interior surface (direct surface) of the gas chamber?

So you don't have anything ongoing in terms of resettlement, I believe there are vague statements? Any concrete plans? Post the strongest evidence of resettlement in documentary form if you can.

In terms of documents, Goebbels diary shows a change in plans, liquidation of the non-working population by Globocnik. The FG report says the same was happening in Auschwitz. Most compelling I think the Greiser correspondence (revisionists haven't even argued this is fake), which speaks of the euthanization of 100,000 Jews in the Warthe.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Keen »

ConfusedJew wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 7:05 pm I learn quick and can figure out complicated scientific concepts.
Could you please explain to us the "science" behind your "magically disappearing jew theory"?
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 3:07 pm "How do you know it was absent from the gas chambers?"

Your entire argument is centered around reasons why it cannot be expected to form in the gas chambers. Are you suggesting its formation is possible / expected?

"How do you explain its absence at certain delousing chambers?"

I don't have my notes in front of me, kindly send me a delousing chamber or fumigation chamber absent of PB and I'll take a look.
The argument is why is it missing from Krema I and the small part of Krema II that can be seen. When Markiewicz said "It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms.", he will be referring to delousing at A-B. If you look back at the photo of the delousing chamber at Majdanek, one wall is discoloured up to about half way, another less than that and one side of the end wall is more discoloured than the other. The ceiling has little to no discolouration. If the part of the Leichenkeller at Krema II that could be accessed, was a part that had little to no discolouration, that does not mean none of it has. It may be that other parts were obviously discoloured, as found at Majdanek.

It could be that both Markiewicz and Rudolf are wrong and it did form inside the gas chambers, but not consistently across all the walls, giving the false impression it left little residue.

I am pointing this out, because, as I have argued from the beginning, we just do not know. All we know is that people were gassed inside the Kremas and farm houses and why the two buildings that can be accessed, albeit one only partially, do not show Prussian blue staining like delousing chambers do, is unknown. Various chemists have postulated their reasons as to why that is. It is possible they are all wrong.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by ConfusedJew »

Keen wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:06 pm
ConfusedJew wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 7:05 pm I learn quick and can figure out complicated scientific concepts.
Could you please explain to us the "science" behind your "magically disappearing jew theory"?
The burden really falls on you to explain potential flaws within the census data and how a decrease in millions of Jews were resettled or displaced with very little trace.

There's so much evidence that can explain that decrease with the Nazi's Final Solution so if you can pick apart specific problems with the census data and can provide any explanation for how so many Jews disappeared, then I at least have something to respond to.

I'm welcome to debate that out but you need to share some of the burden to figure it out as well.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Keen »

Oh, so there is no science behind your "magically dissapearing jew theory."

No wonder you are so afraid to debate Mr. Gerdes

Perhaps you can explain to us how the "magic" works then?
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by ConfusedJew »

Keen wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:56 pm Oh, so there is no science behind your "magically dissapearing jew theory."

No wonder you are so afraid to debate Mr. Gerdes

Perhaps you can explain to us how the "magic" works then?
What are you talking about exactly? I don't believe in any "Magically disappearing Jew theory". The mainstream belief is that they were mass exterminated. You are the one who believes that they were magically resettled and disappeared off the grid.

I'm not afraid to debate Gerdes. I don't know who he is. He will most certainly know a ton of facts that I don't know about and even if his conclusions are wrong, I will not be able to refute them. Not because I am wrong, but out of a lack of knowledge.

It is possible to "lose a debate" against somebody who is dead wrong just because they are more prepared. Do you disagree? I'm not focused so much on winning or losing but I want to learn more about the Holocaust, how it happened, and sharpen my epistemological thinking and debate skills. That's a real win for me.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:16 pm ... I don't believe in any "Magically disappearing Jew theory"...
That theory is a blatant attempt by so-called revisionists, to suggest there is no evidence of mass graves, to deflect from the actual disappearance of the Jews, sent to the death camps. Millions of Jews existed in Nazi and local records, until they arrived at certain camps and then, nothing. So-called revisionists cannot revise history and produce an evidenced chronology of what happened after they arrived at the camps.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:19 pm
The argument is why is it missing from Krema I and the small part of Krema II that can be seen. When Markiewicz said "It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms.", he will be referring to delousing at A-B. If you look back at the photo of the delousing chamber at Majdanek, one wall is discoloured up to about half way, another less than that and one side of the end wall is more discoloured than the other. The ceiling has little to no discolouration. If the part of the Leichenkeller at Krema II that could be accessed, was a part that had little to no discolouration, that does not mean none of it has. It may be that other parts were obviously discoloured, as found at Majdanek.

It could be that both Markiewicz and Rudolf are wrong and it did form inside the gas chambers, but not consistently across all the walls, giving the false impression it left little residue.

I am pointing this out, because, as I have argued from the beginning, we just do not know. All we know is that people were gassed inside the Kremas and farm houses and why the two buildings that can be accessed, albeit one only partially, do not show Prussian blue staining like delousing chambers do, is unknown. Various chemists have postulated their reasons as to why that is. It is possible they are all wrong.
You are off your meds if you think this example supports your position.

"If you look back at the photo of the delousing chamber at Majdanek, one wall is discoloured up to about half way, another less than that and one side of the end wall is more discoloured than the other."

The room you have shown is "Gas Chamber III from Barrack 41" in Majdanek. The existence of this room in fact discredits your argument, not supports it. This room was fitted to a heating system and so therefore was demonstrably warmer and drier than Krema II in Birkenau. It is also alleged that this room was used for CO gassings and only infrequent Zyklon fumigations.
Chamber No. III, with an area of 36.3m2 and a volume of 79.8m3, was simi-
larly designed for poisoning human beings with carbon mo-
noxide, as indicated by its construction and by the heating system and
gas pipe which comprised its equipment
. This chamber could also have
been used to disinfest the clothing of the poisoned victims, but not to disinf-
est the clothing of people washing themselves in the Shower, since it is not
connected to the Shower; it is a detached building and is separated from
the Shower by a barbed wire barrier.

Mattogno, citing Polish-Soviet investigations - HH Vol 5
Futhermore:

Key points here: the heating system in this room, and the seemingly infrequent exposure to Zyklon B (remember, your whole argument about Chamber III is that it used CO gas as it's murder weapon, meaning HCN exposure were infrequent at best).

Given that PB formation is most strongly influenced by moisture & dampness, what this actually demonstrates is that PB formation is observable even under less-than-ideal circumstances.

Therefore, given Krema II had no heater, was damper, less dry and cooler than Chamber III and allegedly exposed much more frequently than Chamber III, the conclusion here is that, if we observe PB in the more unlikely place (Chamber III) we should also expect it in the more likely of places (Krema II)

I know you don't understand any of these arguments but I want to check in on CJ as that is what the entire purpose of this thread is about.
ConfusedJew wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:11 am .
CJ based on everything you have learned about PB formation from myself, this thread, other threads and the literature I have given you, do you understand why Nessie's argument here is an own-goal? Would you like to explain anything further to him?
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