A request to Confused Jew

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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:05 am
Nessie wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 4:19 pm
The argument is why is it missing from Krema I and the small part of Krema II that can be seen. When Markiewicz said "It should be added that this blue coloration does not appear on the walls of all the delousing rooms.", he will be referring to delousing at A-B. If you look back at the photo of the delousing chamber at Majdanek, one wall is discoloured up to about half way, another less than that and one side of the end wall is more discoloured than the other. The ceiling has little to no discolouration. If the part of the Leichenkeller at Krema II that could be accessed, was a part that had little to no discolouration, that does not mean none of it has. It may be that other parts were obviously discoloured, as found at Majdanek.

It could be that both Markiewicz and Rudolf are wrong and it did form inside the gas chambers, but not consistently across all the walls, giving the false impression it left little residue.

I am pointing this out, because, as I have argued from the beginning, we just do not know. All we know is that people were gassed inside the Kremas and farm houses and why the two buildings that can be accessed, albeit one only partially, do not show Prussian blue staining like delousing chambers do, is unknown. Various chemists have postulated their reasons as to why that is. It is possible they are all wrong.
You are off your meds if you think this example supports your position.

"If you look back at the photo of the delousing chamber at Majdanek, one wall is discoloured up to about half way, another less than that and one side of the end wall is more discoloured than the other."

The room you have shown is "Gas Chamber III from Barrack 41" in Majdanek. The existence of this room in fact discredits your argument, not supports it.
If that Majdanek gas chamber was blown up and its ceiling collapsed, leaving only very limited access to the inside, it would be possible that the accessible part did not show any blue staining. That clearly does not mean therefore there is no blue staining anywhere in the chamber.

You are still dodging my point that no one knows if blue staining did appear or not in the Kremas III to V and the farm houses, since they were destroyed. Krema II may have blue staining, but it cannot be accessed and seen. Krema I probably did not have blue staining, but we cannot be sure, because of the extensive rebuilding work.
This room was fitted to a heating system and so therefore was demonstrably warmer and drier than Krema II in Birkenau. It is also alleged that this room was used for CO gassings and only infrequent Zyklon fumigations.
Chamber No. III, with an area of 36.3m2 and a volume of 79.8m3, was simi-
larly designed for poisoning human beings with carbon mo-
noxide, as indicated by its construction and by the heating system and
gas pipe which comprised its equipment
. This chamber could also have
been used to disinfest the clothing of the poisoned victims, but not to disinf-
est the clothing of people washing themselves in the Shower, since it is not
connected to the Shower; it is a detached building and is separated from
the Shower by a barbed wire barrier.

Mattogno, citing Polish-Soviet investigations - HH Vol 5
Futhermore:

Key points here: the heating system in this room, and the seemingly infrequent exposure to Zyklon B (remember, your whole argument about Chamber III is that it used CO gas as it's murder weapon, meaning HCN exposure were infrequent at best).

Given that PB formation is most strongly influenced by moisture & dampness, what this actually demonstrates is that PB formation is observable even under less-than-ideal circumstances.

Therefore, given Krema II had no heater, was damper, less dry and cooler than Chamber III and allegedly exposed much more frequently than Chamber III, the conclusion here is that, if we observe PB in the more unlikely place (Chamber III) we should also expect it in the more likely of places (Krema II)

I know you don't understand any of these arguments but I want to check in on CJ as that is what the entire purpose of this thread is about.
ConfusedJew wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:11 am .
CJ based on everything you have learned about PB formation from myself, this thread, other threads and the literature I have given you, do you understand why Nessie's argument here is an own-goal? Would you like to explain anything further to him?
Document recording the warm air device fitted inside Krema II;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ce-on.html

"Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]"

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/i ... mage24.jpg

You assume and speculate, as you craft your illogical argument from incredulity.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:55 am
Document recording the warm air device fitted inside Krema II;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ce-on.html

"Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]"

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/i ... mage24.jpg

You assume and speculate, as you craft your illogical argument from incredulity.
Just so I'm clear, and it's clear to everybody else in the thread - you are arguing that the Morgue (gas chamber) in Krema II was heated with a furnace. That is what you are arguing?
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:14 am
Nessie wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:55 am
Document recording the warm air device fitted inside Krema II;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ce-on.html

"Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]"

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/i ... mage24.jpg

You assume and speculate, as you craft your illogical argument from incredulity.
Just so I'm clear, and it's clear to everybody else in the thread - you are arguing that the Morgue (gas chamber) in Krema II was heated with a furnace. That is what you are arguing?
No, the document refers to an Entluftungsanlage Warmluftzufurung or ventilation system warm air supply. I do not know what warmed the air, but that document proves it was not unheated as you claimed.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Nessie wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:43 am
HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 10:14 am
Nessie wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:55 am
Document recording the warm air device fitted inside Krema II;

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... ce-on.html

"Material list of 13 April 1943 on “extension of the aeration and deaeration device (warm air supply) of the crematorium II” [Rudolf Report, 2nd edition]"

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/i ... mage24.jpg

You assume and speculate, as you craft your illogical argument from incredulity.
Just so I'm clear, and it's clear to everybody else in the thread - you are arguing that the Morgue (gas chamber) in Krema II was heated with a furnace. That is what you are arguing?
No, the document refers to an Entluftungsanlage Warmluftzufurung or ventilation system warm air supply. I do not know what warmed the air, but that document proves it was not unheated as you claimed.
Image

This is what the document shows. Ofen = oven. You are claiming a furnace oven was operating in the Morgue in Krema II, correct?
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

That translates as "Disinfestation oven" and there were 2 of them provided by Topf & Sons, a company that made heating systems amongst other things. The point is, you were wrong to suggest Krema II had no heating.
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Stubble
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Stubble »

I think you mean LK-1.

The Kremas were obviously heated, they had offices after all, and the furnace room, well, yea, that was 'heated too'.

You have made this claim about the LK being heated before. I didn't spend a whole lot of time chasing this rabbit though.

It is my opinion that if LK-1 was heated, it was for defrosting corpses so they could be loaded into the cremation ovens without risk of the bodies exploding.

Again, I didn't invest a lot of time on this particular detail.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

Topf & Sons were proven to have been involved in work to convert the Kremas, so they had undressing rooms, gas chambers and ovens for multiple corpse continuous cremations. The evidence comes from every single witness who worked inside a Krema, company and camp documents and circumstantial evidence around the operation of the buildings, receiving people not needed for work and their subsequent disappearance from all records.

Not know the details about the heating system, is used as an excuse for so-called revisionists to deny the buildings were used for gassings and cremations. HansHill has been caught making a false claim that there was no heating, as he tries to claim it was not possible for gassings to have taken place.
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Stubble
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Stubble »

Nessie, you seem to disregard 'the principle of charity' often lately.

No, there is not some 'conspiracy' to 'excuse' anything by every revisionist.

Personally, I have been chasing other rabbits down other trails, for example, counting Hungarian jews.

Can you stop with the unfounded assumptions and strawmanning? Or na?
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

Just to make it clear to the thread-readers in future what our friend Nessie is claiming about these Topf disinfestation units - as per Pressac:

Image

and

Image

These are disinfestation units to delouse clothing and other such sanitary requirements. For Nessie's argument to hold, he must argue that one of these was situated inside the gas chamber, operating during a gassing, to ensure the temperature of the walls was inhospitable to Prussian Blue formation.

Well Nessie?
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 12:21 pm Just to make it clear to the thread-readers in future what our friend Nessie is claiming about these Topf disinfestation units - as per Pressac:

Image

and

Image

These are disinfestation units to delouse clothing and other such sanitary requirements. For Nessie's argument to hold, he must argue that one of these was situated inside the gas chamber, operating during a gassing, to ensure the temperature of the walls was inhospitable to Prussian Blue formation.

Well Nessie?
I have no idea if the disinfestation oven was a part of the ventilation system warm air supply or not. I do not know the detailed workings of the Kremas. No one does, since four of them were demolished and the other radically altered.

I do not try to use that knowledge gap, to argue gassings and mass cremations did not happen, because I cannot believe the claims nor work out how they were possible.
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HansHill
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by HansHill »

So anyway back to Majdanek then and you can see that the comparison isn't as clean as you originally made it out to be - the point stands, with everything we know about Majdanek, the expectation of PB formation is demonstrably lower than in Krema II yet still we observe it.

This also renders any piddling around about pH, water content etc by Orthodoxy as rather silly when we clearly observe PB in Majdanek despite the less than textbook parameters. Even Green comments on this and notes it is due to HcN exposure, meaning he is perfectly fine to accept that PB can form in these environments.

As an interesting point, Green seems to misconstrue that the PB formed during a homicidal gassing. It's not clear from the exchanges if Green acknowledges CO as the alleged murder weapon, I'm sure he does privately, but it's not mentioned in the exchanges which is interesting why he omitted that.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by ConfusedJew »

HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 8:05 am
CJ based on everything you have learned about PB formation from myself, this thread, other threads and the literature I have given you, do you understand why Nessie's argument here is an own-goal? Would you like to explain anything further to him?
Let me take a look at this exchange and I'll objectively say what I think is right or wrong based on my research. It might be better to have multiple people debate out these issues independently to get to the truth faster.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

HansHill wrote: Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:02 pm So anyway back to Majdanek then and you can see that the comparison isn't as clean as you originally made it out to be - the point stands, with everything we know about Majdanek, the expectation of PB formation is demonstrably lower than in Krema II yet still we observe it.

This also renders any piddling around about pH, water content etc by Orthodoxy as rather silly when we clearly observe PB in Majdanek despite the less than textbook parameters. Even Green comments on this and notes it is due to HcN exposure, meaning he is perfectly fine to accept that PB can form in these environments.

As an interesting point, Green seems to misconstrue that the PB formed during a homicidal gassing. It's not clear from the exchanges if Green acknowledges CO as the alleged murder weapon, I'm sure he does privately, but it's not mentioned in the exchanges which is interesting why he omitted that.
You are dodging my point. If Majdanek was blown up as Krema II was, with limited access to see inside, it would be possible to only see parts of the wall with no staining. Maybe that also happened at Krema II, and the inaccessible parts are stained, since staining does not occur consistently across a wall.
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Keen »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:16 pm I'm not afraid to debate Gerdes.
Yes you are.
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Nessie
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Re: A request to Confused Jew

Post by Nessie »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon Jun 16, 2025 9:16 pm I'm not afraid to debate Gerdes.
It would not be a debate. It would be him getting you to answer his questions and him refusing to answer any of your questions. Do anything he does not like and expect to be abused. He is a controlling bully.
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