Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

[Keen]

First off, the question wasn't directed at you.

Second, I didn't ask if archaeological evidence is one type of physical evidence.

Your lack of intelligence is really evident here.

There's no need for insults here. You asked a self evident gotcha question. None of that was necessary.

I'm just stating facts CJ.

If you are insulted by facts, you shouldn't be here.

[ConfusedJew]

I'm not insulted by that but it is counterproductive. It is also not a "fact", it is an opinion. Intelligence is very difficult to make "objective". The closest thing that people have been able to create is IQ but that is increasingly outdated with AI and it always had problems.

[Keen]

CJ:

Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

Because we know, with 100 % certainty, that:

Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

[ConfusedJew]

CJ:

Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

Because we know, with 100 % certainty, that:

Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

Are you Greg Gerdes?

How can you be 100% certain about anything?

Proving that the "orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged" is very vague. It could mean that more people were killed than was originally thought but also no single person has a monopoly on orthodox historical narratives so how could so many people get it wrong?

I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I used to be a stock market investor and if you think the market (crowd) is very wrong about something, you definitely want to know why before placing a bet.

[Wahrheitssucher]

THE DECEPTIVE OR IGNORANT QUESTION BY CONFUSED JEW

Q. Why do you think ‘the holocaust’ is fake?

A. Please first explain what exactly the term ‘the holocaust’ means. Define it.
Make explicitly clear what you think the main occurrences were that constitute your perception of ‘the holocaust’.

Until you have done that you are either gullibly asking from a position of ignorance OR are deliberately perpetuating a deception.

MY OWN PERCEPTION:
I doubt that there were ANY Third-Reich planned and designed ‘extermination camps’.
I do NOT doubt that many hundreds of thousands of people died in concentration camps due to disease and harsh conditions, especially at the war’s end.
I do NOT doubt the probability that some people were killed in camps using poisonous gas.
I DO doubt that that occurred on the scale claimed, using the methods claimed, at the places claimed.

I doubt there was ANY Third-Reich plan to exterminate ALL jews.
I do NOT doubt there was a plan to make central Europe juden-rein, which involved arresting and incarcerating whole jewish communities.

I do NOT doubt that whole jewish communities were massacred in vicious, collective-punishment reprisals for partisan activities during Operation Redbeard.

The above is NOT saying ‘the holocaust never happened’.
Anyone who claims it is, is either gullible and stupid or practicing a deliberate deception.

More people are now courageously demonstrating they have broken the years of indoctrination and have seen through some of the obvious nonsense that official organs of the anti-German racism have been peddling for eight decades.

E.g.

[Keen]

CJ:

Why Do you Guys Think the Holocaust is Fake?

Because we know, with 100 % certainty, that:

Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

How can you be 100% certain about anything?

I'm 100% certain that you don't have the intelligence or courage to debate Mr. Gerdes.

CONCLUSION / STATEMENT OF FACT: It can be, and Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the above mentioned “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE - PROVES - NO MASS MURDER

Additionally, and independent of any other reward offered on this website, a reward of - $5,000.00 - will be remitted to anyone who can refute the above conclusion / statement of fact in a publicized debate against Greg Gerdes. Rules are essentially the same as those for the other challenges on this site. Contact Greg Gerdes for details.

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

[Nessie]

A conspiratorial belief that it is possible to fake the Holocaust, mixed with a desire for it to have not happened, is why some think the Holocaust is fake.

When I say some think the Holocaust is fake, I am using that as shorthand to cover a wide range of beliefs, from very little about the Holocaust happened and only around 271k Jews died in camp, with no mass murders at all, to those who accept more deaths and some mass shootings and even a few gassings took place.

[Keen]

A conspiratorial belief that it is possible to fake the Holocaust, mixed with a desire for it to have not happened, is why some think the Holocaust is fake.

When I say some think the Holocaust is fake, I am using that as shorthand to cover a wide range of beliefs, from very little about the Holocaust happened and only around 271k Jews died in camp, with no mass murders at all, to those who accept more deaths and some mass shootings and even a few gassings took place.

It can be, and Greg Gerdes has, using legal standards applied in U.S. courts, PROVEN that the above mentioned “huge mass grave discoveries” are fraudulent charades, the Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II mass murder / holocaust allegations are false, and the orthodox holocaust story did not happen as alleged.

[Archie]

I don't really have the mental capacity to read through all these diverse arguments.

Can you present me with the 3 strongest reasons why you think the Holocaust didn't happen and we can go from there?

Something like an FAQ would be helpful so that each point can be addressed clearly.

An FAQ has been added to the Beginner's Guide.

I wrote most of this a while ago but had set it aside unfinished. Thank you for reminding me about it.

[ConfusedJew]

An FAQ has been added to the Beginner's Guide.

I wrote most of this a while ago but had set it aside unfinished. Thank you for reminding me about it.

This is pretty much what I was looking for when I started this thread at the very beginning.

I have a lot of important projects that are picking up so I have much less time to devote to this, but I will say that I'm generally OK with people questioning pretty much anything if the intent is meant to be truth seeking and constructive. Everybody on this forum will have a different attitude, but there are some here that are clearly motivated by a hatred of Jewish people as a whole which is not acceptable to me. That hatred clearly distorts one's judgment and causes a lot of harm in many different ways.

The evidence is overwhelmingly to me. Just the tens of thousands of direct and indirect witness testimonies alone is way more than enough to convince me. I would not expect all of those witnesses to be 100% accurate or even truthful. After what many of those people went through, I think it would be appropriate for them to utterly despise the group of people that persecuted them and their families in such a way.

Philosophically speaking, you can never be 100% sure of almost anything though. But my estimate that the Holocaust happened, more or less as is documented by the mainstream historical narrative is like 99.99999999999999%.

I think using the label revisionist to describe the movement on this board is extremely misleading at best, I do consider most of you deniers. Maybe ultra extreme skeptics is a more intellectually honest term.

Based on my observations in my time on this message board, I have seen some that genuinely seem to be skeptical and historical revisionism is an important part of the history process.

However, I think you can imagine how much pain you would cause to people who believe in the Holocaust and lost family in WW2. I am still surprised to see that people would question this so brashly without even considering how it might be received by others. Any normal person would likely believe that Holocaust deniers aren't likely to be serious and just want to spread hatred and pain for a million different reasons.

I see it similar to Alex Jones accusing the children who were killed in the Sandy Hook school shooting of being crisis actors. I have a very hard time believing that he thought that it was true and he had very strong financial incentives to spread such wild allegations that I suspect he was just lying for profit but I don't know how to prove that.

What do you think? Should it be legal for him to knowingly spread such heinous and false allegations? Why or why not? Does it matter if he actually believe it?

[Callafangers]

I have a lot of important projects that are picking up so I have much less time to devote to this, but I will say that I'm generally OK with people questioning pretty much anything if the intent is meant to be truth seeking and constructive. Everybody on this forum will have a different attitude, but there are some here that are clearly motivated by a hatred of Jewish people as a whole which is not acceptable to me. That hatred clearly distorts one's judgment and causes a lot of harm in many different ways.

You do this "thing" where you simply declare, over and over again, the official platform and promoted worldview of Jewish-owned media conglomerates and their massive global networks. This is a hopeless effort to persuade anyone who has dedicated considerable time to understanding what is actually true about the Jewish collective. If followers of Judaism (Talmudism, followers of "Oral Torah"), as a generally sadistic cult, tend to bring problems wherever they arrive en masse over thousands of years, then there is nothing wrong (nor hateful) with acknowledging this pattern. To the extent this pattern can be measured or verified, it can be stated as a fact. As much distrust and frustration I have with the Jewish collective and its indisputable patterns of behavior, it is a lie (or ignorance) to say that I have ever been "motivated by a hatred of Jewish people as a whole". This is not to say you were referring to myself (or anyone in particular) specifically, or perhaps you were, but in any case, it is a debate you are not prepared to engage in, let alone win. Jews have patterns of behavior which have persisted for centuries through extremist cult views which are so incredibly consistent that some (e.g. Hitler/NSDAP) have concluded this must be a blood-driven (racial) matter -- something so prevalent among a group that ideology, alone, seems insufficient to explain it. My own view is that the "jury is still out" on this particular question (nature vs. nurture)... but the pattern of behavior is pervasive and undeniable, across geography and centuries of time.

There are certainly many millions of Jews who have lived relatively normal lives in their host nations but even these have most often served as 'enablers' for the more problematic elements -- deflecting criticism from, distracting attention from, or more overtly defending these elements.

I've asked this before: with all the Jewish power in the world, and with thousands of powerful Jewish-run organizations, where is even a single powerful Jewish organization whose explicit purpose it is to stand in opposition to specifically-Jewish abuses of power?

Jews Against Jewish Power Abuses?

Jews Against Subversion?

Jews Against Usury?

Jews Against Jewish Media Lies?

Jews Against Jewish Privilege?

Let the crickets chirp...

Despite all their power, and despite your claim of 'Jewish individuality', Jews never seem to organize in ways that do not directly or indirectly benefit the Jewish collective. Any organized disagreement among Jews tends to be about whether or not a given initiative is actually good for Jews, never about principles of national (e.g. American) patriotism, or of "right and wrong" in the context of treatment toward other peoples, etc.

The evidence [of the Holocaust] is overwhelmingly to me. Just the tens of thousands of direct and indirect witness testimonies alone is way more than enough to convince me. I would not expect all of those witnesses to be 100% accurate or even truthful. After what many of those people went through, I think it would be appropriate for them to utterly despise the group of people that persecuted them and their families in such a way.

Yes, we understand that you claim to feel "overwhelmed" by the evidence. You have been "overwhelmed" by it regardless of your understanding of arguments for or against it, as evident by your introduction to this forum which exhibited your steadfast adherence to the official narrative, despite being 'debunked' on almost every idea or argument you first put forth, even with your frantic use of ChatGPT. It is obvious you will claim to still be "overwhelmed" by the evidence for the 'Holocaust', even if the rest of the non-Jewish world acknowledges the proof piling in the other direction, because it is clear you are motivated by things other than objective truth.

Unfortunately for you, there are a lot of ways that Jewish behavior has been recorded over time. A great example is Zionism -- no honest person of a sound and reasonable mind can look at 'Israelis' as anything but the villain in their story within Palestine. Surely, you have some disagreement here... but informed, compassionate people will not. You can of course point to a few hundred or so (at most) anecdotes of Palestinians retaliating and hurting Jews or Israelis ("muh rockets!") in a seemingly 'evil' way... but almost 100% of these instances will only assist your position so long as they are presented without all important context. We find similar narrative-shaping in the so-called 'Holocaust'; I have lost count of how many documents or statements I was initially told were 'proof' or 'strong evidence' of something, only to later find that the surrounding context and bigger picture tells a much different story.

Philosophically speaking, you can never be 100% sure of almost anything though. But my estimate that the Holocaust happened, more or less as is documented by the mainstream historical narrative is like 99.99999999999999%.

It is so transparent -- the way you engage here, still pretending to be an open-minded, "fair & balanced" assessor of topics and ideas. Your only hope is that an adjudicator (or the public eye) will read not the full context but only mere snippets of what you have said on this forum, so that they can see you behaving in a "calm and civilized way" while those of us here growing angry or bothered by your behavior can appear 'unhinged' and 'toxic' by comparison. But I suppose this behavior of yours is a longstanding tradition that you are happy to embrace, knowing it has been effective over the course of time at securing your tribal interests, even conquering nations.

I think using the label revisionist to describe the movement on this board is extremely misleading at best, I do consider most of you deniers. Maybe ultra extreme skeptics is a more intellectually honest term.

Here is more presentation of yourself as an objective evaluator. Completely absurd.

"Hello, fellow skeptics." - Steve Buscemi skateboard meme

Based on my observations in my time on this message board, I have seen some that genuinely seem to be skeptical and historical revisionism is an important part of the history process.

This is information you learned from ChatGPT like 3-4 months ago. You have not shared a word of original wisdom here.

However, I think you can imagine how much pain you would cause to people who believe in the Holocaust and lost family in WW2. I am still surprised to see that people would question this so brashly without even considering how it might be received by others. Any normal person would likely believe that Holocaust deniers aren't likely to be serious and just want to spread hatred and pain for a million different reasons.

More of our people (that is Europeans, Asians, and others) lost family members than did yours, not to mention the disproportionate role of your people in motivating and exacerbating the major wars, or of overrunning and then slaughtering the Russians at the turn of the 20th century, or of deceiving the planet today via media juggernauts while subverting global politics to seize geopolitical hegemony over the Middle East and, gradually, through "puppet state" formations, much of the world. Any 12-year-old with a half-hour on their hands can easily discover that Jews DO "control the media", have outsized influence in US Congress and political lobbies across UK, USA, Canada, Europe, Australia, and more. If claiming Jews have and abuse such power is "just plain hatred", then it sure is a strange coincidence that the power that 'haters' claim Jews have is actually true.

I see it similar to Alex Jones accusing the children who were killed in the Sandy Hook school shooting of being crisis actors. I have a very hard time believing that he thought that it was true and he had very strong financial incentives to spread such wild allegations that I suspect he was just lying for profit but I don't know how to prove that.

I understand this is the next angle Jews hope to use to stifle their political opponents. The televised-trial-debacle of Alex Jones was a "test run", likely to set legal and sociocultural precedent and/or to gauge and gather data on the public response to such a theater against free speech. Jews have had a ton of trouble in the USA getting around the explicit First Amendment right, so they will need to claim certain views are a 'danger' in order to justify their intended nullification of this right. It's all so transparent, it's all so tiresome.

What do you think? Should it be legal for him to knowingly spread such heinous and false allegations? Why or why not? Does it matter if he actually believe it?

The Sandy Hook shooting was one of many which gained an extreme amount of mass media attention, and certain other mass media events which gained a similar degree of attention have had obvious problems in their official narratives. The overwhelming majority of people who have opinions either way on Sandy Hook have not investigated it either way. This means that the vast majority of opinions on this subject (either Sandy Hook or Alex Jones' controversy) have simply "chosen a side", only assuming their preferred premise (that Sandy Hoax's true events were or were not perfectly aligned with the official narrative). I personally have not looked into this, nor do I know what Alex Jones has said on the matter. The truth of it is relatively inconsequential on the bigger questions of global key players, key narratives, and key events (real or alleged) of politics and power structures but it is these things which are most in need of scrutiny and attention. Sandy Hook's true narrative is of little interest to the "powers that be", which is why I'm certain they'd prefer us discussing this over the Holocaust, the War on Terror, 9/11, who runs the media, why Netanyahu gets standing ovations in US Congress, etc.

[Nessie]

I don't really have the mental capacity to read through all these diverse arguments.

Can you present me with the 3 strongest reasons why you think the Holocaust didn't happen and we can go from there?

Something like an FAQ would be helpful so that each point can be addressed clearly.

An FAQ has been added to the Beginner's Guide.

I wrote most of this a while ago but had set it aside unfinished. Thank you for reminding me about it.

I see you locked it, as you do not want a direct challenge to its multiple errors, chief of which is so-called revisionist inability to revise the history of the Jews arrested by the Nazis and produce an evidenced chronology that concludes with millions of Jews till alive in 1945.

This is a lie;

Revisionists point out that the evidentiary basis for the Holocaust (to the extent there has even been any attempt to justify it in terms of evidence) largely consists testimonies collected after the war, a surprisingly weak and unreliable foundation for such extraordinary claims. These witnesses simply do not hold up under scrutiny as their stories are full of serious contradictions, errors, and absurdities.

There is far more evidence from sources other than witnesses, than you suggest and there is a high level of consistency amongst the eyewitnesses, who worked inside the AR camps, Chelmno and the A-B Kremas, as to what happened. They all describe the same process, varying only in details, which is to be expected.

[Stubble]

To speak honestly about lies is not to spread hate; it is to seek a clearer, unvarnished truth—even if that truth is difficult to bear.

[Nessie]

To speak honestly about lies is not to spread hate; it is to seek a clearer, unvarnished truth—even if that truth is difficult to bear.

The biggest lie so-called revisionists tell, is that the Holocaust lacks evidence. There was a cover-up by the Nazis, but they still left so much evidence, that those who worked at the death camps, or were in the Einsatzgruppen, admitted to the mass murders, and senior Nazis were unable to provide any evidence to prove millions of arrested Jews were still alive in 1945.

Holocaust denial spreads hate, by promoting all sorts of anti-Semitic tropes, that Jews are all powerful, dishonest, after money, deceitful and they all work together.

[Wahrheitssucher]

An FAQ has been added to the Beginner's Guide.

I wrote most of this a while ago but had set it aside unfinished. Thank you for reminding me about it.

This is pretty much what I was looking for when I started this thread at the very beginning.

After following your contributions here at the CODOH forum, I doubt this is true.

I have a lot of important projects that are picking up so I have much less time to devote to this, but I will say that I'm generally OK with people questioning pretty much anything if the intent is meant to be truth seeking and constructive. …but there are some here that are clearly motivated by a hatred of Jewish people as a whole which is not acceptable to me.

This sentence I suspect represents your true motive: viz. to portray ANY questioning, doubting and refuting of any A S P E C T S of the ‘holocaust’ narrative as ‘hatred of ALL jews’.

The evidence is overwhelmingly to me.

You never engaged with dissection of ‘the evidence’. You feigned ignorance, and ignored it when any of it was presented to you, with the excuse of it being ‘too much information’ plus with claims of ‘lack of time’ and ‘more important things to do’.

Just the tens of thousands of direct and indirect witness testimonies alone is way more than enough to convince me.

This is the classic argument. Which either proves:
1.] you are of low intelligence, and this explains why you learnt NOTHING;
or
2.] you are lying.

I would not expect all of those witnesses to be 100% accurate or even truthful. After what many of those people went through, I think it would be appropriate for them to utterly despise the group of people that persecuted them and their families in such a way.

Here we go. The ‘special suffering’ emotional appeal that is supposed to trump accurate research and objective analysis.
THE REALITY appears to be that in contradiction to the atrocity propaganda, most of the jews in Europe “went through” what millions of other people went through during WW2. Plus some other peoples had it considerably worse and met more cruel and horrific deaths. But you probably won’t enquire about that as your whole issue is to promote the myth of ‘special suffering’ of your perceived kin. Isn’t it, CJ?

Philosophically speaking, you can never be 100% sure of almost anything though. But my estimate that the Holocaust happened, more or less as is documented by the mainstream historical narrative is like 99.99999999999999%.

Again… either:
1.] you are of low intelligence, which explains why you learnt NOTHING;
or
2.] you are lying.

I think using the label revisionist to describe the movement on this board is extremely misleading at best, I do consider most of you deniers.

I suggest T H I S represents more accurately why you are actually posting here. Viz. it is to smear EVERYONE as a ‘denier’ motivated by ‘hatred of ALL jews’ if they seek to honestly, intelligently and impartially re-analyse the legally-protected WW2 narrative of the Jewish experience in the European theatre of that mass-murderous conflict.

Maybe ultra extreme skeptics is a more intellectually honest term. Based on my observations in my time on this message board, I have seen some that genuinely seem to be skeptical and historical revisionism is an important part of the history process.

However, I think you can imagine how much pain you would cause to people who believe in the Holocaust and lost family in WW2.

You have never shown any consideration of the ‘pain’ felt by others who lost relatives. You appear unable to understand the feelings of others whose relatives suffered war, death, separation, deprivation, etc. Try to imagine their ‘feelings’ when they learn why that war was instigated and by whom. Can you imagine the feelings of people whose relatives were killed and suffered horribly in a cause that was based on lies, and who must NOW offer obsequious, unintelligent worship at a memorialised narrative of a relatively small aspect of that collossal conflict’s death and destruction?

Rather revealingly I don’t remember YOU ever showing any concern — let alone feelings of sympathy — for the hundreds of thousands currently being maimed, massacred, bereaved, orphaned and made homeless in occupied Palestine.
Why is that, CJ?

I am still surprised to see that people would question this so brashly without even considering how it might be received by others. Any normal person… blah, blah, blah… [snipped]

What do you think? Should it be legal for him to knowingly spread such heinous and false allegations? Why or why not? Does it matter if he actually believe it?

Any normal person? Seriously?
…Ending with another question that demonstrates a bogus pretence, based upon deliberately false equivalence.
Disgustingly devious and deceitful.
Yuck!