Markiewicz Report in 1994

[Callafangers]

In conclusion: you have provided no relevant examples challenging my previous assertion. Please try again.

I disagree with you that I did not provide proof to you but the testimonies don't matter here. It's pretty obvious that if anyone were to conduct mass homicide in a gas chamber, they would wash up afterwords.

When I disassemble each and all of your 'proof' point-by-point, it's hilarious (and childish) for you to still say you "disagree". None of your points are valid and I have shown this conclusively.

You talking about who would "wash up" brings a hypothetical that implicitly concedes you rely on speculation since the evidence is not there. But most importantly, it should be there if these events actually took place, since we have multiple 'Sonderkommando' witnesses who gave [supposed] detailed accounts of everything that happened there.

So, what gives?

Washing the walls would not have necessarily completely prevented the formation of Prussian Blue, but it would have reduced the likelihood of it happening. Can we agree on that point?

No, you're a desperate Jewish tribesman seeking any angle he can latch onto. You score zero points.

[Wetzelrad]

I'm personally not grasping at straws, I am look at all of the straws to see what actually makes sense.

In my opinion, we can rule out most of those arguments except we need to still investigate:
1. Whether the frequency and intensity of HCN gas would have been enough to form Prussian Blue
2. Whether the alkalinity of the walls was conducive to the formation of Prussian Blue
3. Whether the walls were of sufficiently high porosity to allow for the formation of Prussian Blue

If any one of those factors is not sufficient for the formation of Prussian Blue, the chemical reaction would not have taken place. We'll go deeper on those fronts but I'll wait to see if there are any objections and whether or not people are still following this approach.

While that post was not written in this topic or directed at you, it is interesting to see your reply. I find this to be your most agreeable post so far. Yes, most of the arguments used are ruled out. The relevant arguments are those which concern whether or not the environment was right to form Prussian Blue.

I think you have already reached agreement with us that the alkalinity was favorable and that the walls had iron, so you're down to just exposure time, intensity, porosity, and moisture.

As to exposure time, it would be interesting to hear how long you believe the walls of Crema II or III were exposed to hydrogen cyanide, with accounting for the number of gassings and the necessary time for ventilation.

[borjastick]

What we see here is what most believers do, except in this case CJ seems to be lacking in a lot of accumulated knowledge. They argue about irrelevancies. Stuff that even if true, which this most certainly is not, would hardly move the needle, hardly swing the dial one way or the other. They create fog where previously there was none and in any case it is fog we can see through quite clearly. They argue black is white, salt is sugar and yet they always always avoid the key issues in every debate. Why? because they know that the basics of the whole thing cannot be proven and we are right.

Their goose is cooked.

[HansHill]

Get your sh*t together Confused Jew, all of this slop has been addressed or is slop you've pulled from your ass.

Whitewash - discussed

If we are taking another of Bombsaway's hypotheses seriously (the Whitewash-as-inhibitor hypothesis), then the key variable in determining the permeability of the Whitewash will be its diffusion coefficient.



We don't have a direct measure of this Whitewash coefficient from the DIN 4108 building standards - This is a German building standard and i was quoted 72 eurobucks for a copy and I don't feel the hypothesis is worth the cost of admission (no offense BA) But - we are still in luck. Rudolf provides us the coefficient for Lime Plaster (or rather he provides us the range) as being between 10-35 units of measurement. It's commonly understood as Mr Stubble has been bending over backwards to explain, that Whitewash is a very thin and light Lime based product similar to Lime plaster, only much more thin and watery in consistency compared to actual Lime plaster.

Therefore we will place "Whitewash" on the lower end of the diffusion coefficient, somewhere close to 10 units. This means that Whitewash will not be expected to inhibit the diffusion of gaseous matter any more than the building material itself. Any HCN present that interfaces with BA's Whitewash will be expected to effectively diffuse right through it to the underlying plaster.

**Edit**

Granting 10 is very generous as it won't have the consistency of actual plaster, so in reality it will be <10. But it still doesn't affect anything in any significant way.

cheap

Zyklon-B was not cheap, and was specifically abandoned in favour of actually cheap processes

Though consumption sagged in 1940 to thirty-two
tons and in 1941 to about twelve tons, in part because of increasing use
of less-expensive fumigation processes that employed hot air, these totals
were more than enough to offset the reduction of Testa’s core business in
Hamburg’s harbor......

Hydrocyanic gas faced consid-
erable competition in Germany from less risky arsenic-, sulfur-, and steam-
based preparations that also were easier and cheaper to apply in many set-
tings

Peter Hayes - From Cooperation to Complicity Degussa in the Third Reich

Even the camp inmates knew this

If the number of people to be killed was
lower and the gas was evidently expensive, those affected were killed by an in-
jection into the heart.

- Samuel Lewant

"B-b-but" - Confused Jew
Whatever you can conjure to rebut this will be irrelevant. Mattogno has painstakingly collated all the delivery invoices for Zyklon delivered into the camps, itemized to the KG.

Washing the walls.... would have reduced the likelihood of it happening. Can we agree on that point?

Discussed already

2 - Cleaned with water which is an accelerant, not a retardant.

In fact, adding extra water content to the environment is catastrophic for your argument. Again this is already discussed.

We argue it should be equal or slightly higher given the excess moisture caused by condensation from victims breathing.

2. Delousing chambers used Zyklon B for hours per session, while homicidal chambers used it for 15–30 minutes per gassing, with cleaning in between. Cumulatively, this meant far less total HCN contact time. This is a very strong argument for why you would not expect to find Prussian Blue in a homicidal gas chamber.

You already bet me on this point and i warned you that you were sleepwalking into this. The condition has now been met and you owe me "a ton of money".

Deal

1) What kinda ton of money are we talking?
2) I will DM you my Monero details privately
3) I will only keep half and donate the other half to Revisionist causes. Archie and Callafangers will assist me in choosing.
4) The condition will be met when you argue from necessity that the pellets must remain inside the column during the entirety of a gassing, to be removed afterwards.

I would appreciate a mod reviewing the above to ensure it is a true reflection of the discussion so far

Please acknowledge this and I'll send you my Monero address.

[ConfusedJew]

When I disassemble each and all of your 'proof' point-by-point, it's hilarious (and childish) for you to still say you "disagree". None of your points are valid and I have shown this conclusively.

You talking about who would "wash up" brings a hypothetical that implicitly concedes you rely on speculation since the evidence is not there. But most importantly, it should be there if these events actually took place, since we have multiple 'Sonderkommando' witnesses who gave [supposed] detailed accounts of everything that happened there.

So, what gives?

This is just not true. If you make a good point, I will address it. Archie made some good points in his previous post that were worth addressing. I just don't think any of those points that you just made are worth a response. If you have a serious concern, I will be happy to address it, but if I feel that a reasonable person would laugh at your argument, I won't.

There are a handful of people on here who understand why I am pursuing that line of reasoning but apparently you don't.

[Wahrheitssucher]

It's fairly clear.

If you were to hypothetically kill thousands and thousands of people in a gas chamber, you'd have people wash the chambers afterwords for basic hygienic reasons. …This is common sense.

You’d maybe need to hose the floor.
You wouldn’t need to hose the entirety of the walls, you Dummköpfin!

I'm just being honest.

[ConfusedJew]

While that post was not written in this topic or directed at you, it is interesting to see your reply. I find this to be your most agreeable post so far. Yes, most of the arguments used are ruled out. The relevant arguments are those which concern whether or not the environment was right to form Prussian Blue.

I think you have already reached agreement with us that the alkalinity was favorable and that the walls had iron, so you're down to just exposure time, intensity, porosity, and moisture.

As to exposure time, it would be interesting to hear how long you believe the walls of Crema II or III were exposed to hydrogen cyanide, with accounting for the number of gassings and the necessary time for ventilation.

While I do strongly believe that this happened, I am not afraid to discard false beliefs or arguments made by any side. By throwing out what is untrue, we gain much more clarity on what we know for certain happened or would have happened if the gassings did occur. If we still disagree at the end of it, that's fine, but I want to know exactly why we disagree.

Some people here are throwing out some really absurd arguments that I don't think are serious but the science is objective and I feel that will get us much closer to the truth.

I still personally haven't ruled out alkalinity, but I will look at exposure time, intensity, and porosity more closely. If they did wash the walls, which they most certainly did, I don't think that moisture would have been a limiting factor unless there was maybe too much moisture.

I'm not at all afraid of "the truth" but I don't want to waste time on unserious arguments and insults. Maybe I can come back to some of those later but right now I'm focused on the forensics.

[ConfusedJew]

You’d maybe need to hose the floor.
You wouldn’t need to hose the entirety of the walls, you dummkopf!

People would have projectile vomited all over the walls so the walls would have needed to be cleaned to some extent obviously. Insulting me, in German nonetheless, is kind of pathetic. I find that almost all of the time when people insult me, the insult applies way more to them and very little to me. You'll see that I don't go out of my way to insult people here despite the fact that I believe most people here hold a dangerous and very delusional belief.

[Wahrheitssucher]

If they did wash the walls, which they most certainly did…

A statement revealing a profound amount of confirmation bias,
combined with a self-delusional level of certainty based merely on unintelligent, faithful belief…

…or…

…a dishonest debate-tactic.

[Wahrheitssucher]

You’d maybe need to hose the floor.
You wouldn’t need to hose the entirety of the walls, you Dummköpfin!

People would have projectile vomited all over the walls…

Over the totality of the entire wall space, from floor to ceiling?

And you know this how?

[Stubble]

When I disassemble each and all of your 'proof' point-by-point, it's hilarious (and childish) for you to still say you "disagree". None of your points are valid and I have shown this conclusively.

You talking about who would "wash up" brings a hypothetical that implicitly concedes you rely on speculation since the evidence is not there. But most importantly, it should be there if these events actually took place, since we have multiple 'Sonderkommando' witnesses who gave [supposed] detailed accounts of everything that happened there.

So, what gives?

This is just not true. If you make a good point, I will address it. Archie made some good points in his previous post that were worth addressing. I just don't think any of those points that you just made are worth a response. If you have a serious concern, I will be happy to address it, but if I feel that a reasonable person would laugh at your argument, I won't.

There are a handful of people on here who understand why I am pursuing that line of reasoning but apparently you don't.

None of the testimony you shared was relevant to support your claim. They were either very late (try to find an early one, you won't), or they were for different 'homicidal gas chambers'. Some were even for gas vans.

You may consider me 'unreasonable', and that's your prerogative. It is however entirely reasonable to expect contemporary witness testimony to describe what happened, and to expect later testimony to be less accurate.

The most accurate testimony should be contemporary.

In the later testimony you lose many of the details and they are replaced with new ones. Gone is the orchestra, gone is the speech and request for skilled labor to 'talk to me after your shower', gone is the ambulance, the 40 foot flames from the chimney.

It is replaced with 'we washed the floor', which isn't even washing the walls.

Furthermore, the amount of time to clear the bodies necessarily precludes the idea that this would have had much of an effect to stop the formation of iron blue.

Seriously, how many minutes do you think it would have taken to empty the chamber? It would have taken almost a week. There are only 15 muffles.

[ConfusedJew]

If they did wash the walls, which they most certainly did…

A statement revealing a profound amount of confirmation bias,
combined with a self-delusional level of certainty based merely on unintelligent, faithful belief…

…or…

…a dishonest debate-tactic.

I'm not being dishonest. I told you that I'm basically 99.999999% sure that this all happened but I'm maybe never 100% sure about almost anything.

So let me rephrase that, "if they did wash the walls, which they most certainly would have..."

That's not what confirmation bias is but I am expressing my own interpretation as a foregone conclusion which isn't conducive to constructive debate.

[HansHill]

Seriously, how many minutes do you think it would have taken to empty the chamber? It would have taken almost a week. There are only 15 muffles.

To load up the gas chamber, it would take 33 minutes. This is assuming 1 jew walks in the door every second at a flat uniform rate. 1 jew per second, with military precision and filing in an orderly line and proceeding immediately to the back of the room to create no obstructions at the door.

33 minutes to load up, best case. In reality, to load up the gas chamber will be more like 2 hours with all the kvetching.

For the cheap seats in the back, this is calculated at 2,000 jews at 1 per second = 33 minutes.

Now for load out, for the sonderkommando to remove the bodies 1 at a time with sticks, to be piled up at the elevator in threes, to be brought up the elvator shaft three bodies at a clip, and back down again to retrieve three more bodies - Stubble's estimate of a week is very very reasonable. I personally am ok to discuss somewhere in the range of 6-9 hours of backbreaking labour at peak performance... Superjews!

Confused Jew - you do not under any circumstances have anything resembling <30 mins exposure time. Remember you also said it was no big deal for the pellets to be laying amongst the bodies offgassing this entire time?

[Stubble]

Seriously, how many minutes do you think it would have taken to empty the chamber? It would have taken almost a week. There are only 15 muffles.

To load up the gas chamber, it would take 33 minutes. This is assuming 1 jew walks in the door every second at a flat uniform rate. 1 jew per second, with military precision and filing in an orderly line and proceeding immediately to the back of the room to create no obstructions at the door.

33 minutes to load up, best case. In reality, to load up the gas chamber will be more like 2 hours with all the kvetching.

For the cheap seats in the back, this is calculated at 2,000 jews at 1 per second = 33 minutes.

Now for load out, for the sonderkommando to remove the bodies 1 at a time with sticks, to be piled up at the elevator in threes, to be brought up the elvator shaft three bodies at a clip, and back down again to retrieve three more bodies - Stubble's estimate of a week is very very reasonable. I personally am ok to discuss somewhere in the range of 6-9 hours of backbreaking labour at peak performance... Superjews!

Confused Jew - you do not under any circumstances have anything resembling <30 mins exposure time. Remember you also said it was no big deal for the pellets to be laying amongst the bodies offgassing this entire time?

Mr Hill, where, where did they store the dead? I mean, if they are stacking them out, like chords of wood, to empty the 'gas chamber', where do they put the bodies? They are already in the morgue.

Also, not to be obtuse, but, how hard would it have been to set up a conveyor. The idea that since no chemical resistant gloves were ever delivered to Auschwitz Birkenau, they just, used sticks and leather straps is so ridiculous. I mean, for example, has anyone ever recovered a 'retrieval cane'?

The whole story, root to tip, has every hallmark of atrocity propaganda.

It is equal parts believable and ludicrous, and it is both detailed and ambiguous in the correct way.

They described pomp and circumstance, but they don't describe 'the process' in a way that comports to reality.

Any gap in details, not unlike a pothole, was simply filled in later. In many cases, much, much later.

[ConfusedJew]

The most accurate testimony should be contemporary.

In the later testimony you lose many of the details and they are replaced with new ones. Gone is the orchestra, gone is the speech and request for skilled labor to 'talk to me after your shower', gone is the ambulance, the 40 foot flames from the chimney.

It is replaced with 'we washed the floor', which isn't even washing the walls.

Furthermore, the amount of time to clear the bodies necessarily precludes the idea that this would have had much of an effect to stop the formation of iron blue.

Seriously, how many minutes do you think it would have taken to empty the chamber? It would have taken almost a week. There are only 15 muffles.

At a certain point later on, maybe I'll have an interest in dissecting the credibility of the testimonies but that really doesn't have much to do with the Markiewicz report.

I said earlier that they most certainly would have washed the walls but that by itself was not enough to conclude that Prussian Blue wouldn't have formed. It's possible but not definite, so we need to explore other possibilities to figure it out.

I'm busy at the moment but let me get back to the math on the throughput for this.