Short Version of the Korherr Report

[fireofice]

There is a long and short version of the Korherr Report. Here is the short version:

https://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/kor ... r-kurz.php

Some parts of this have been used to argue for the orthodox position on the holocaust. The relevant bits:

The reduction of Jewry in Europe is thus likely to amount to 4 million heads.
...
Overall, European Jewry is likely to have lost almost half of its existence since 1933, i.e. in the first decade of the National Socialist development of power. Of this, only about half, i.e. a quarter of the total European stock of 1937, has flowed to the other continents.

You can see the HC blog make it's case using the short version here:

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... rherr.html

The argument from these lines in the short version in a nutshell is that if there is a reduction in Europe's Jews by 4 million and only 2 million flowed to other countries, then that means the only explanation for the remaining missing 2 million is that they are dead.

My impression is that the "flowing" seems to be referring to emigration and the rest could be referring to evacuation (combined with other things such as mortality). What does everyone else here think?

[Wetzelrad]

The argument from these lines in the short version a nutshell is that if there is a reduction in Europe's Jews by 4 million and only 2 million flowed to other countries, then that means the only explanation for the remaining missing 2 million is that they are dead.

My impression is that the "flowing" seems to be referring to emigration and the rest could be referring to evacuation (combined with other things such as mortality). What does everyone else here think?

I think that since Korherr still calculated ~17 million Jews alive in 1943, any interpretation that his statistics include millions of dead Jews must be incorrect.

The words "half has flowed" are clarified by looking back at the numbers.

korherr p.4.jpg (101.24 KiB) Viewed 171 times

Korherr gives these stats for the Reich with occupied territories:

• Emigrants: 1,319,950
• Excess deaths over births: 82,776
• Evacuees: 1,714,031
• Other: +3,860

So roughly half the total were emigrants and half were evacuees, and already the total (3.1 million) is too high for there to be 2 million dead. After that Korherr lists an additional 792,818 evacuees from other countries, plus he assumes there was additional emigration (perhaps 600k) with this sentence:

If, in addition to the aforementioned decline, Jewish emigration and the Jewish death surplus in the non-German states of Central and Western Europe are taken into account, as well as the inevitable double counting due to Jewish fluctuation, then the decline in the Jewish population in Europe from 1937 to the beginning of 1943 can be estimated at 4.5 million.

It is with all of that combined that he reaches his conclusion on the total numbers for all Europe, saying a quarter emigrated. If someone actually makes the argument that you stated, they are preying on your ignorance and hoping you don't actually read the report.

[Wetzelrad]

There is however some kind of semantic argument to be made here. What did "evacuated" mean, since it excludes them from being counted any longer as European but also excludes them from being in other countries?

I interpret it as a way of designating Jews as non-Europeans, in line with Hitler's plans. Since his final solution was repeatedly stated to be the expulsion of Jews from Europe, but it couldn't be completed until war's end, he had them moved to camps and ghettoes where they were under his control but officially no longer residents of Europe. Basically denaturalization.

[Callafangers]

There is however some kind of semantic argument to be made here. What did "evacuated" mean, since it excludes them from being counted any longer as European but also excludes them from being in other countries?

I interpret it as a way of designating Jews as non-Europeans, in line with Hitler's plans. Since his final solution was repeatedly stated to be the expulsion of Jews from Europe, but it couldn't be completed until war's end, he had them moved to camps and ghettoes where they were under his control but officially no longer residents of Europe. Basically denaturalization.

I would agree. He says it more or less explicitly, that these Jews have exited Europe via their [actively] being "sifted through the camps in the General Government" (critically, there is no mention of 'Reinhardt camps' here, thus suggesting labor camps, etc. are likely included). This highlights the focus on Jews being off the streets of Europe, not able to organize or meddle with the affairs (or genetics) of the Germanic peoples scheduled to be moved into these locations.

If German people could walk the streets and not encounter Jews, and trust that Jews/Jewry were not infiltrating businesses and institutions (or black markets, etc.) in any given area, this was sufficient to consider it 'Judenfrei' in most cases (perhaps not 'Judenrein', although these terms could be occasionally/mistakenly used interchangeably). This is what would have been of interest to Himmler and anyone else receiving the report.

[Archie]

There is however some kind of semantic argument to be made here. What did "evacuated" mean, since it excludes them from being counted any longer as European but also excludes them from being in other countries?

I interpret it as a way of designating Jews as non-Europeans, in line with Hitler's plans. Since his final solution was repeatedly stated to be the expulsion of Jews from Europe, but it couldn't be completed until war's end, he had them moved to camps and ghettoes where they were under his control but officially no longer residents of Europe. Basically denaturalization.

I have been thinking about that and was coming up with similar conclusions. At a glance it seems there's some inconsistency/breakage in Korherr's numbers because he seems to think 4.5M were no longer part of Europe, but only about half of the 4.5M had fled to other countries (outside Europe). It's seems there's some third category. The traditional interpretation is that this third category would be murder. I think the more plausible explanation for this 2M third category is that he seems to be counting "evacuees" as no longer being part of Europe, yet he's also not counting them as having fled to other countries. That he still counts them in the global population (as evidenced by his 1/3 in Europe estimate) would seem to support this interpretation.

Even if we were to become convinced on their interpretation of evacuation/special treatment, this would still run into the problem of the front-loaded deaths that I mentioned recently in the other thread. For the orthodox story to be correct, you really need 4M+ deaths by the end of the 1942. If you have only 2M by that point, you would wind up barely at 4m by the end of the war.

[fireofice]

If you have only 2M by that point, you would wind up barely at 4m by the end of the war.

Total Reitlinger vindication!