Did Germany Have an Infinite Gasoline Hack I am Unaware of?

[Nazgul]

Why, did it happen? Are there records of fuel requisition for it? Based on these facts you should be a Dresden cremation denier

The Dresden bodies were only scorched not cremated, though many were cremated in the firestorm. Germany's resource shortages during WWII affected civilians, industry, and the war effort. Rationing, substitutes, and fuel shortages weakened the economy and military. The reality is that it was fuel shortages that brought the downfall of the Third Reich.

Considering this fact, they would not waste fuel on burning corpses.

[bombsaway]

Why, did it happen? Are there records of fuel requisition for it? Based on these facts you should be a Dresden cremation denier

The Dresden bodies were only scorched not cremated, though many were cremated in the firestorm. Germany's resource shortages during WWII affected civilians, industry, and the war effort. Rationing, substitutes, and fuel shortages weakened the economy and military. The reality is that it was fuel shortages that brought the downfall of the Third Reich.

Considering this fact, they would not waste fuel on burning corpses.

What evidence do you have that they were merely scorched? Does scorching produce ash, ascertainable in cubic meters, and baggable, pourable? In that case perhaps the dead at the extermination camps were also merely scorched.

The document StAD, Marstall- und Bestattungsamt, Nachtrag I - Schreiben, 4.3.1945, referred to in Matthias Neutzner, Martha Heinrich Acht, pp. 91, 93 and 221, partially quoted in the excerpt from Martha Heinrich Acht transcribed and translated here (emphasis added):
Thousands of corpses still had to be retrieved and buried. A task that the available forces were not up to: thus, after Gauleiter and city administration had agreed, corpses were collected on the sealed-off Altmarkt, registered and finally burned. This happened »in consideration of the quickly progressing decomposition and the existing extraordinary difficulties in retrieving [the corpses] as well as the lack of suitable vehicles for transportation to cemeteries«, was stated in the Order Police's final report. For two weeks the old market place in the city center became a crematorium. On 5 March the corpses collected in the streets had been retrieved, the pyres gone out. »By my estimate, 8 - 10 cubic meters of ash lay on the Altmarkt«, was reported to the city administration the day before. »The Brigadeführer wished that this ash be loaded into recipients (boxes or sacks) and transported to the Heidefriedhof, where it is to be sunk into the earth at the place marked in lead on the map. It is not necessary to leave the boxes or sacks in the soil. You shall thus pour the ash from the transport recipients into the soil, so that the recipients can be reused several times. Transport should start on Tuesday.«

Why, did it happen? Are there records of fuel requisition for it? Based on these facts you should be a Dresden cremation denier

This is how far you have fallen, eh, bombsaway? Red herrings left and right, won't even attempt to defend your theory? You're saying it was liquid fuel at AR camps, I'm just asking to see what evidence you base this upon.

Nothing at all, then?

Yeah I posted the witness testimony saying liquid fuel was used on the first page.

[Callafangers]

Yeah I posted the witness testimony saying liquid fuel was used on the first page.

You posted one statement saying the wood was doused in gasoline while almost all other witnesses omit this entirely. You give no process, no standard nor explanation for how this could have been done at scale (i.e. as a key fuel source requiring a firehose, thousands of tankers/deliveries, a specialized pump, manpower, and safety protocols) rather than simply as a starter (more common for mass pyres which are expected to burn primarily due to wood, given need for a constant burn), if/when used at all.

Here's another critical point you miss: the heat energy released from the gasoline in doused (or soaked) wood would release almost entirely within the first 1-2 minutes of burning, and would be much more explosive (a big, initial "whoosh"), leading to far more heat loss in outdoor cremation, given this forceful evacuation of heat is not contained, so only a fraction of it is transferred to the corpses. This also means that only the corpses initially on the pyre would be subject to the increased heat energy from the gasoline -- every other corpse added thereafter would be unaffected by it (your witness does not claim a continuous stream of gasoline onto the raging fires, which would undoubtedly lead to major incidents/explosions, if possible at all, due to the extreme size and intensity of these fires).

Let's give you as charitable of an interpretation as possible and assume ALL of the wood was HEAVILY doused (the firehose example) before the fire is ignited. Just how much more energy do you suppose this would add to the process overall? Please quantify it. If you don't, I will.

[bombsaway]

Yeah I posted the witness testimony saying liquid fuel was used on the first page.

You posted one statement saying the wood was doused in gasoline while almost all other witnesses omit this entirely. You give no process, no standard nor explanation for how this could have been done at scale (i.e. as a key fuel source requiring a firehose, thousands of tankers/deliveries, a specialized pump, manpower, and safety protocols) rather than simply as a starter (more common for mass pyres which are expected to burn primarily due to wood, given need for a constant burn), if/when used at all.

Here's another critical point you miss: the heat energy released from the gasoline in doused (or soaked) wood would release almost entirely within the first 1-2 minutes of burning, and would be much more explosive (a big, initial "whoosh"), leading to far more heat loss in outdoor cremation, given this forceful evacuation of heat is not contained, so only a fraction of it is transferred to the corpses. This also means that only the corpses initially on the pyre would be subject to the increased heat energy from the gasoline -- every other corpse added thereafter would be unaffected by it (your witness does not claim a continuous stream of gasoline onto the raging fires, which would undoubtedly lead to major incidents/explosions, if possible at all, due to the extreme size and intensity of these fires).

Let's give you as charitable of an interpretation as possible and assume ALL of the wood was HEAVILY doused (the firehose example) before the fire is ignited. Just how much more energy do you suppose this would add to the process overall? Please quantify it. If you don't, I will.

Are you claiming there is only one testimony? If you're saying wood is much more reflected in the record when talking about burnings, I think it's your job to produce testimony proving this

Why assume any wood was used? Calculate this using the Dresden burnings as a model, which were wood free.

[Callafangers]

Are you claiming there is only one testimony? If you're saying wood is much more reflected in the record when talking about burnings, I think it's your job to produce testimony proving this

Why assume any wood was used? Calculate this using the Dresden burnings as a model, which were wood free.

No, I don't need to, since the official history is clear about wood being the primary (if not exclusive) source, hence the 'Waldkommando' narrative being the only official explanation for how wood (or fuel of any kind) even arrived at the camp.

You keep trying to deflect onto Dresden which is 100% irrelevant. Your desperation is sad, bombsaway.

[bombsaway]

Are you claiming there is only one testimony? If you're saying wood is much more reflected in the record when talking about burnings, I think it's your job to produce testimony proving this

Why assume any wood was used? Calculate this using the Dresden burnings as a model, which were wood free.

No, I don't need to, since the official history is clear about wood being the primary (if not exclusive) source, hence the 'Waldkommando' narrative being the only official explanation for how wood (or fuel of any kind) even arrived at the camp.

You keep trying to deflect onto Dresden which is 100% irrelevant. Your desperation is sad, bombsaway.

So like if I look through the foundational texts about Action Reinhardt like Arad's or earlier Soviet reports, wood being the primary or exclusive source is indicated?

[Callafangers]

So like if I look through the foundational texts about Action Reinhardt like Arad's or earlier Soviet reports, wood being the primary or exclusive source is indicated?

bombsaway, you have dodged my request that you quantify your beliefs:

Let's give you as charitable of an interpretation as possible and assume ALL of the wood was HEAVILY doused (the firehose example) before the fire is ignited. Just how much more energy do you suppose this would add to the process overall? Please quantify it. If you don't, I will.

Are you going to attempt this, or should I do it for you?

The reason you have only posted Matthes as a source in this thread is likely because you are hard-pressed to find any others that mention liquid fuels at all. And even Matthes only indicates it as a starter, which would have been of minimal significance.

Your efforts to dodge are duly noted but you will not be wriggling your way out of this one, you slimy fellow.

Try again: care to quantify, or should I do it?

[TlsMS93]

Under no circumstances would the amount of wood needed to cremate these bodies be reduced by introducing flammable liquid. At most, it helps light the pyre, or do you think it's enough to light a match and throw it in?

When I see narratives like this to give more coherence to all this, I believe it was all on an infinitesimally small scale, and the rest was distributed elsewhere.

[bombsaway]

So like if I look through the foundational texts about Action Reinhardt like Arad's or earlier Soviet reports, wood being the primary or exclusive source is indicated?

bombsaway, you have dodged my request that you quantify your beliefs:

Let's give you as charitable of an interpretation as possible and assume ALL of the wood was HEAVILY doused (the firehose example) before the fire is ignited. Just how much more energy do you suppose this would add to the process overall? Please quantify it. If you don't, I will.

Are you going to attempt this, or should I do it for you?

The reason you have only posted Matthes as a source in this thread is likely because you are hard-pressed to find any others that mention liquid fuels at all. And even Matthes only indicates it as a starter, which would have been of minimal significance.

Your efforts to dodge are duly noted but you will not be wriggling your way out of this one, you slimy fellow.

Try again: care to quantify, or should I do it?

I'm looking through Arad's text right now, the Mathes quote came from there

There's also this

Leon Feldhendler wrote about the start
of the cremation of the corpses in the camp:
In the first period, there was no crematorium. After gassing, the people were laid
into the graves. Then, out of the soil, blood and a bad odor of gas began to surface;
terrible smells spread over the whole camp, penetrating everything. The water in
Sobibor became rancid. This forced the Germans to build a crematorium. It was a
large pit with a roaster above it. The bodies were thrown on the roaster. The fire was
ignited from beneath, and petrol was poured on the corpses. The bones were crushed
into ashes with hammers. . . .5

Arad's text is the foundational one on AR, so the supposition this is not part of the history, wooh I don't know what to tell you, but you are clowning yourself.

Why should I attempt to quantify this? You're free to do what you want. I've read Mattogno's study on the matter, and it's just not convincing. Bodies were mass burned at Dresden without the use of any wood, not disputed by anyone really. This is the proof of concept.

[bombsaway]

Under no circumstances would the amount of wood needed to cremate these bodies be reduced by introducing flammable liquid. At most, it helps light the pyre, or do you think it's enough to light a match and throw it in?

When I see narratives like this to give more coherence to all this, I believe it was all on an infinitesimally small scale, and the rest was distributed elsewhere.

Then I guess bodies burn on their own, since Dresden was done exclusively using this method.

[Callafangers]

Under no circumstances would the amount of wood needed to cremate these bodies be reduced by introducing flammable liquid. At most, it helps light the pyre, or do you think it's enough to light a match and throw it in?

When I see narratives like this to give more coherence to all this, I believe it was all on an infinitesimally small scale, and the rest was distributed elsewhere.

bombsaway's logic is like this:

• Wood not make enough fire... deniers sound smart
• Gasoline make big fire!
• Conclusion: If Nazis use gasoline, me can prove the Holocaust!

He is not dealing with the fact that petrol/gasoline has a limited energy release which is measurable (each liter only replaces about 3.7kg of wood) and which behaves in a particular way (a violent surge of heat which escapes in multiple directions and lasts only about 1-2 minutes at most).

[TlsMS93]

Then I guess bodies burn on their own, since Dresden was done exclusively using this method.

What was Dresden? 25,000 bodies? Did all the dead have to be cremated? So that was the total number of deaths at the Reinhardt camps? Welcome to the group, then.

[bombsaway]

Then I guess bodies burn on their own, since Dresden was done exclusively using this method.

What was Dresden? 25,000 bodies? Did all the dead have to be cremated? So that was the total number of deaths at the Reinhardt camps? Welcome to the group, then.

I never said the same amount were burned, though likely Dresden burnings matched peak intensity of any Reinhardt camp in terms of fuel delivery.

They also show that it was possible to do burnings this way

[TlsMS93]

I never said the same amount were burned, though likely Dresden burnings matched peak intensity of any Reinhardt camp in terms of fuel delivery.

They also show that it was possible to do burnings this way

Dresden was an industrial city, so there would have been flammable material nearby even in 1945. The health risk required drastic measures. There was no combustible material on hand, as the city was obliterated and the body count was far lower than in the Reinhardt camps, which were far from everything. Witnesses who support this type of narrative cannot refute the need for wood to be the determining factor here. Claiming that they had benzene (gasoline) at their disposal in the Reinhardt camps, while on the Eastern Front or even in North Africa, they had one eye on the battlefield and the other on the fuel panels of tanks or planes only adds to the absurdity.

[fireofice]

Dresden was basically one big cremation oven when it was being bombed.

The incineration of large numbers of people in Dresden is also indicated by estimates of the extreme temperature reached in Dresden during the firestorm. While no survivor has ever reported the actual temperature reached during the Dresden firestorm, many historians estimate that temperatures reached 1,500° Centigrade (2,732° Fahrenheit). Since temperatures in a cremation chamber normally reach only 1,400 degrees to 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit, large numbers of people in Dresden would have been incinerated from the extreme heat generated in the firestorm.

https://codoh.com/library/document/how- ... t-dresden/