Did Germany Have an Infinite Gasoline Hack I am Unaware of?

[bombsaway]

depending on how soaked the biomass was.

And this is also why CF's questions were so important, if as his cartoon suggests it was merely hosed onto an open fire pit (LOL) as the fire is raging, there would be hardly soakage undertaken, and any fuel gains are short-lived.

To get "maximum soakage" would obviously require a process, something like entire pallets of dry wood being soaked and left for X-Weeks in a fuel pit / barn or some other process, then left to dry again. So a chop-dry-soak-redry process (!)

The latter of course only leads to more questions, rather than answers! What barn? Who did the soaking? For how long? Did the "soaking time" cause any throughput delays? Who did the drying?

So yes, all of this has completely backfired on Bombsaway.

And yet the uncomfortable fact is this was all done at Dresden without the use of any wood. Were a million liters, or 10 million, or whatever your number is, of gasoline expended to burn these bodies?

btw my position that large amount of liquid flammables were used is echoed by HC blog

Obviously uncomfortable with the notion that high amounts of liquid fuel were used in burning the corpses at the extermination camps, Mattogno quotes a slab from MGK’s Sobibór book in which he had referred to survivor witness Thomas Blatt’s assertion that "the pyre, sometimes more than three yards high, was then doused with kerosene and ignited", as supposedly showing that liquid combustible was used only for the ignition of the pyres. Yet the quoted statement says nothing about the amount of liquid fuel employed or the proportions of liquid versus solid fuel, which for all we know may have been like on the Dresden Altmarkt pyres.

you guys can throw whatever math or science you want at me, I don't have time or energy to do a deep dive here. Simply put what really happened at Dresden is "proof of concept" for me, overrules all your theoretical and likely delusional musings about things you think you know about but don't. Were people burning stacks of bodies at boy scouts?

[TlsMS93]

What would that be in Altmarkt? 6,000 bodies? You have to believe that's much more likely than 800,000 in Treblinka, Sobibor, and Belzec. And besides, it was more urgent within the Reich to prevent disease and near industrial facilities. Now, transporting them to isolated camps in rural Poland?

25 million liters of gasoline would be the equivalent of 10 Olympic-sized swimming pools, and would that be enough to cremate the bodies? It wouldn't even cremate 20% of them.

[HansHill]

And yet the uncomfortable fact is this was all done at Dresden without the use of any wood. Were a million liters, or 10 million, or whatever your number is, of gasoline expended to burn these bodies?

Wood? What are you smoking Bombsaway?

You are correct in saying wood was not included in the payload of the RAF bombers during bombing raids (LOL) but they didn't wood, they instead had 3,900 tons of high explosives, napalms and incendiary bombs.

Are you serious?

[bombsaway]

And yet the uncomfortable fact is this was all done at Dresden without the use of any wood. Were a million liters, or 10 million, or whatever your number is, of gasoline expended to burn these bodies?

Wood? What are you smoking Bombsaway?

You are correct in saying wood was not included in the payload of the RAF bombers during bombing raids (LOL) but they didn't wood, they instead had 3,900 tons of high explosives, napalms and incendiary bombs.

Are you serious?

No this would be the Dresden cremations, are you pretending to be dumb?

[Stubble]

New thread dropped;

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=566

Please take talk about Dresden there.

[Callafangers]

And yet the uncomfortable fact is this was all done at Dresden without the use of any wood.

For context, bombsaway is referring to the ancient (2011) theory originally posited by Hans at the HC blog, here:

https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... _8385.html

bombsaway likely didn't link this article since it has long-since been debunked. Rather than focusing on relevant experiments and sound measurements for maximum confidence, Hans cites an historian's analysis (Frederick Taylor) of the cremation events at Dresden:

Corpses were shipped in and laid out ready for registration and, if possible, identification. Searching for ways of keeping them off the ground – and allowing a draft under the planned funeral pyres – workers found a solution in the wreck of a nearby department store, where massive window shutters had survived the bombing. They carried them from the ruins and set them down on the ground, making, as a contemporary grimly expressed it, "huge grill racks." Large amounts of gasoline were trucked into the sealed city center. Teams poured petrol over the bodies as they lay piled on the shutters. Then the dead were burned at the rate of one pyre per day, with around five hundred corpses per pyre. The task was efficiently done. To reduce that number of human remains to fine ash without access to a purpose-built crematorium is a technically problematic process. It was carried out under the supervision of outside SS experts. They were said to be former staff from the notorious extermination camp at Treblinka. Between February 21 and March 5, when the last pyre was lit, 6,865 bodies were burned on the Altmarkt. Afterward, when the fire cooled down, it was estimated that between eight and ten cubic meters of ash covered the cobbled surface of the medieval square. The SS in charge of the burning had intended to transport the ashes out to the Heath Cemetery in boxes and sacks and bury them containers and all, but municipal parsimony triumphed. In the end the ashes were simply emptied out of their containers and into the prepared pits, thus enabling the valuable sacks and boxes to be reused. [177]

He also cites Irving who doesn't seem to make any specific claim as to the reduction in volume. In any case, the problem is that: no matter what any witnesses claimed, the laws of physics and thermodynamics cannot change.

Hence, either:

• The claim that thousands of corpses were reduced completely to ash is false, OR
• The claim that only a bit of gasoline and straw was used is false

There is no third option. bombsaway (and Hans) would have us believe that this Dresden event as alleged is proof of a yet-unknown law or exception in the field of thermodynamics, with this historian's analysis (or his witness[es] who are not cited) as their sole piece of 'evidence'.

The reason that other HC bloggers and the Holocaust establishment have not jumped on-board with this thesis is because it holds no weight and is easily spanked into oblivion once we attempt to measure and validate the claims involved.

Every biomass (or every object, for that matter), has a limited amount of potential energy. It is a hard cap -- there is no possible way, whatsoever, to exceed this limit. For our purposes, this is the lower heating value (LHV) already provided for gasoline (~33 MJ per liter) and 50% moisture green wood (~8.8 MJ per kg). Functionally, the actual megajoule (MJ) potential of wood and especially of gasoline (given the latter flash-explodes with much heat loss when ignited) is much lower than these values, insofar as what can be transferred to any body in outdoor cremation. Thus, a liter of gasoline has likely no more than ~1-2 MJ that can actually be transferred to a body in the cremation process.

There are no rules in the laws of thermodynamics that make an exception to this. bombsaway is going to keep pointing to one historian's mistake as his claim to reason that gasoline magically turns a job requiring extraordinary amounts of patience and fuel into a quick 'set it and forget it' half-day job.

It doesn't work that way.

set-it-and-forget-it-2235746047.png (243.17 KiB) Viewed 97 times

[HansHill]

Ok got it - I will apologize to Bombsaway for suggesting he was smoking something harmful*.

He was only smoking copium!

*while not harmful, copium is still ill-advised by those of sound mind.

[Archie]

you guys can throw whatever math or science you want at me, I don't have time or energy to do a deep dive here. Simply put what really happened at Dresden is "proof of concept" for me, overrules all your theoretical and likely delusional musings about things you think you know about but don't. Were people burning stacks of bodies at boy scouts?

This is like trying to teach to someone how to swim who has never been anywhere near the water.

Your repeated implication that liquid fuels are a good substitute for wood in an open fire betrays your total ignorance. There's no need for a "deep dive" here. You just need some basic experience with fires which you obviously do not have.

The boy scouts don't burn corpses, but they could explain to you what kindling is for and why lighter fluid is generally not a substitute for wood.

[Callafangers]

The boy scouts don't burn corpses, but they could explain to you what kindling is for and why lighter fluid is generally not a substitute for wood.

bombsaway (and Hans, etc.) misunderstood the difference between rate of heat release and total heat release. Gasoline is impressive because it "go boom, big fire". This doesn't mean it provides enough overall heat to cremate a corpse, and the "big fire" we see is often because that fire went into the open air instead of into the corpses (i.e. lost/wasted energy).

In summary, bombsaway be like:

• Wood not make enough fire... deniers sound smart
• Gasoline make big fire!
• Conclusion: If Nazis use gasoline, me can prove the Holocaust!

[Stubble]

1 gallon of gas=14 sticks of TNT.

[Callafangers]

Wasn't sure whether to post this on the Dresden thread or this one but this is what happens when you put even a little too much liquid fuel in your pile:



Here's another:



And a couple others (from Stubble, in the Dresden thread):







Suffice to say, the "liquid fuel theory" is now 100% debunked. Even a little too much petrol/gasoline explodes your whole pyre and makes you look like an idiot, while some 95% of the energy is lost almost immediately. This puts another hard cap on how much gasoline can be used per corpse (there's no way we would ever reach 10 liters per corpse, which I proposed earlier -- thus, we are looking at a MAXIMUM of some 2-3% of the total required wood volume that could be replaced by gasoline, period).