Why are you here?

[Alonso]

Like many people here, I believed the official narrative of the holocaust for most of my life. Around eight years ago I started to notice that some things didn't add up, started to investigate, and eventually understood the deception. This probably sounds familiar. Looks like many prominent revisionists, like Germar Rudolf, and also many participants in this and other revisionist forums have a similar background.

The amount of time I have devoted to this topic is striking. For many years I have been using a tool that reports how I spend my time. It reports that, over the last eight years, I have spent more than 400 hours on this topic. It's more time than I have spent over the same period on practical tasks like, say, doing my laundry. That's remarkable. I'm not a public figure. Unlike Germar Rudolf, I don't have the goal of revealing the truth to the world, I'm not even a member of any organizations related to this topic. Unlike doing my laundry, learning about this topic doesn't serve any obvious practical purpose for me. And yet, I've spent so much time on it that it borders on obsession.

This begs the question: why? Why do I care so much? It doesn't affect me, at least not more than it affects any other person in the Western world. I'm Spanish, my country didn't even participate in World War II. Like any other Western person, I've been bombarded all my life by propaganda on this topic. But most Western people don't ever question the holocaust narrative, let alone spend hundreds of hours researching it. What's so special about this topic, why does it captivate my interest (and apparently, also the interest of many others) in such a way?

I think the answer is related to my personal background. I have an extremely dysfunctional family, in which lying and deceiving has always been the norm. Since we were born, my sisters and I were taught to lie and deceive others without even realizing that we were doing so. My family is controlled by my mother: she has used lies, deceptions, and manipulations to control the life of my father, my siblings and myself since we were born. I'm the only person in my family who has ever seriously questioned the deceptions of my mother.

There's an interesting similarity between my personal life and the Western world in general. The Western world is ruled by an elite that uses systematic lies, deception, and manipulation to stay in control. This elite uses many deceptions, but it's probably fair to say that the most significant one by far is the holohoax (I'm aware that the holohoax also has a profound influence in the rest of the world, but here I'm focusing on the Western world for the sake of simplicity). There is a minority in the Western world, the revisionists, who question this deception, but most people believe it uncritically. Revisionists are systematically punished and ostracized for telling the truth.

This seems to map neatly with the situation of my family: the elite that rules the world (the world of my family) is my mother. She uses very complex deceptions to rule this small world, just like the Western elite uses the holohoax to rule the Western world. My siblings and I were bombarded with these deceptions since we were born (and my father since he met my mother), just like Western citizens are bombarded with the holohoax. I'm the only person in this small world who has questioned the deceptions and, just like revisionists, I'm systematically punished and ostracized for telling the truth.

This parallelism seems to explain my interest on this topic. I feel deeply identified with revisionists -specially those that tell the truth in public, like Rudolf- because we experience the same ordeal. In a way, understanding the Western elite and how they use the holohoax is understanding my mother and how she uses her deceptions, the deceptions I've been subjected to throughout my life. Understanding revisionists and their ordeal is understanding myself.

This also seems to explain how I approach the topic. I have some general knowledge about the holohoax and its deceptions, but my factual knowledge is remarkably limited given the amount of time I've spent. For example, I know that Sobibor is the location of an alleged extermination camp, but I know almost nothing about that camp: where it is, what is alleged to have happened there, what actually happened, etc. I'm not so interested in the factual details. I'm far more interested in how the deception works: what happened in the Nuremberg show trials, how the allies managed to force Rudolf Hess and so many other innocents to confess horrible crimes, etc.

What about you? Why are you here? Are there others whose motivations are similar to mine?

[HansHill]

Hi Alonso!

1 - Welcome
2 - What is the tool you used to ascertain the time spent on this topic, if you don't mind me asking? It sounds like a personal organising tool, like an Excel sheet to map out and analyse your time but that sounds quite involved.
3 - i'm sorry to hear about your private situation but just as a friendly heads up, you seem to have divulged quite a bit of personal information including your home country, it would be worth considering your own personal privacy in future and be conscious about identifiable things you are posting here, as this is all public, and of great interest to certain.... people. I will assume "Alonso" is not your real name!
4 - I agree with you that this is a topic that can become fiercely time consuming, it has become a fascination of mine and I have spent approx 6 years on this, reading everything I can get my hands on along with documentaries, interviews and podcasts
5 - I am here, primarily to ask questions to expand my knowledge. I opened my account here asking niche questions I could not find the answers to elsewhere, and I continue to ask questions to the present day. Secondly, I am here to participate in knowledge sharing with other Revisionists, and debate with Exterminationists - the former to help in whatever way i can with our body of knowledge, and the latter, to dunk on these people so any lurkers or newbies can see that Exterminationists are easily bested in open debate.

[Archie]

It can be addictive. At first, there is mere curiosity. Who are these revisionists? Why don't they believe it? But then you are surprised by the arguments which seem very reasonable. Could they actually be right? And then the more you look into it, the more certain it seems that the official history is very, very wrong. I do not think I could have stopped in the middle. I suppose I could have quit once I had looked into it enough to draw my own conclusion, but I think I was bothered by the fact that the matter this still isn't settled. I actually got interested in WWII revisionism first, but I think I moved more toward the Holocaust as it became clear that there was no way to get the history of WWII right without figuring out the Holocaust piece.

I relate to how Arthur Butz described his motivation for writing his book in the mid 70s. This from the original 1976 preface.

Although my long-lingering skepticism in regard to the legend was no longer on the defensive, my information could not, early in 1972, be considered conclusive, and my knowledge of the subject was not comprehensive, so I set out, at first in my “spare time,” to investigate the subject with the thoroughness that was required.

The reader will have surmised that my “spare time” eventually expanded considerably.

Several – for me startling – discoveries made the subject irresistible in a purely intellectual sense. I acquired the foreign language literature. Ultimately, I spent the entire summer of 1972 working on an exposé of the hoax, since by then I had penetrated and demolished the whole sorry mess. While the book you are holding differs considerably in quantity of factual content and general quality from the picture I had formed by the summer of 1972, that picture, whose essentials are transmitted here, was in such overwhelming contradiction to the lies that Western society had equipped me with, that my attention could not be drawn from the subject by any appeal to prudence or any such practical calculation. Because even early in the summer of 1972, it was evident that my research had carried the subject beyond the existing literature, I felt an inescapable obligation and an intellectual imperative to put forward for society’s evaluation what I knew about this most pernicious hoax.

[Stubble]

Because the pool was closed. Due to AIDS.



Sorry about your family problems and stuff, hope things get better.

[Alonso]

I felt an inescapable obligation and an intellectual imperative to put forward for society’s evaluation what I knew about this most pernicious hoax.

I surmise that you do it because you feel that it is your moral obligation. Did I get that right?

the former to help in whatever way i can with our body of knowledge, and the latter, to dunk on these people so any lurkers or newbies can see that Exterminationists are easily bested in open debate.

This sounds similar to what Archie said, but it's not so explicit. Do you also do this out of a sense of moral obligation?

What is the tool you used to ascertain the time spent on this topic, if you don't mind me asking? It sounds like a personal organising tool, like an Excel sheet to map out and analyse your time but that sounds quite involved.

Following your advice on privacy protection, I have sent you a private message to answer this. I think it's the first time I send a private message in this forum, so let me know if it doesn't reach you.

you seem to have divulged quite a bit of personal information including your home country, it would be worth considering your own personal privacy in future and be conscious about identifiable things you are posting here, as this is all public, and of great interest to certain.... people. I will assume "Alonso" is not your real name!

I've had mixed ideas about this for a lot of time. I have searched this forum for threads on the topic of privacy, but I didn't find anything relevant, so I've just created a new thread on the topic. You can see it here.


@Stubble: I'm sorry, I've made a reasonable effort to get the joke, but my meme culture is just too limited XDD

[borjastick]

This also seems to explain how I approach the topic. I have some general knowledge about the holohoax and its deceptions, but my factual knowledge is remarkably limited given the amount of time I've spent. For example, I know that Sobibor is the location of an alleged extermination camp, but I know almost nothing about that camp: where it is, what is alleged to have happened there, what actually happened, etc. I'm not so interested in the factual details. I'm far more interested in how the deception works: what happened in the Nuremberg show trials, how the allies managed to force Rudolf Hess and so many other innocents to confess horrible crimes, etc.

I read your post with some interest I must say. Very well articulated concerning your mother and her manipulation. Sounds a bit narcissistic if I may be so bold. Just a few points about your closing paragraph above.

For a good factual appraisal and understanding of the various camps and claims I would suggest you read Dalton - Debating the holocaust.

With regard to Nuremberg it is best to know that after all wars or nasty conflicts the allies always find a way to kill the opposite (losing) leaders, generals etc. WW2, Middle east wars, Saddam Hussein, Colonel Gadhaffi. It helps keep the lid on the truth coming out as the dead don't talk much...

I don't think the allies did manage to convince innocents to confess to so many crimes did they? By and large those of trial denied most things.

[Alonso]

Sounds a bit narcissistic if I may be so bold.

Yeah, that's probably a fair assessment.

With regard to Nuremberg it is best to know that after all wars or nasty conflicts the allies always find a way to kill the opposite (losing) leaders, generals etc. WW2, Middle east wars, Saddam Hussein, Colonel Gadhaffi. It helps keep the lid on the truth coming out as the dead don't talk much...

Yes, killing those who are willing to tell the truth is a part of the deception, but I don't think it's an essential part. In cases like WW2, Iraq, Libia, etc., there are thousands or even millions of witnesses, killing all of them is not feasible. There are many other methods that are more effective. I think the main one is brainwashing (propaganda).

I'm also very interested in how the deceivers organize the deception. I know there is no Simpson's style Mr. Burns saying "and now we are going to deceive the whole world" while he laughs hysterically, so I'd really like to know how they create such a well coordinated effort to do something so morally deplorable. Unfortunately, this seems to be the less documented and understood part of the holohoax. After all the time I've spent learning about it, I think the closest I've read to something like this is Simon Wiesenthal's infamous explanation of the five million gentile victims figure (he made it up to get gentiles interested).

I don't think the allies did manage to convince innocents to confess to so many crimes did they? By and large those of trial denied most things.

I don't think that's the case. For example, according to the Holocaust Encyclopedia, about a year and a half after the Dachau trials, "almost all defendants issued affidavits, complaining of abuse and rescinding their earlier confessions". Confessions extracted under torture were also the norm in Nuremberg.

[Nazgul]

The inconsistencies of the stories, the use of foreign spies, spurious evidence.
Here we discuss and not change the world. We have Incepted the Reality into human consciousness.
While we talk, I think we can still talk, even fight with Nessie, an irrelevancy, but let the reality of the future unfold. The past is gone, our past has gone, that world no longer exists, what is not gone is how we perceive it. How the future perceives the past is not by a constant attempt to inculcate our thoughts into their head. The seed is cast, let it grow. Let the end begin. The truth will speak for itself.

[Waldgänger]

I don't post very much, nor did I do so on the earlier board. I do visit once a week or so. It's a good thing, too, or I would've missed many interesting developments, such as those recent revelations about Jankel Wiernik, who has fascinated me for years.

I first signed up during the Covid lockdowns in 2020. A combination of boredom, anger at the non-reaction of normal people to the global establishment's tyranny in the pandemic, and my own personal reading about historical criticism, made it inevitable that I would start questioning many truths widely held by respectable normal people (idiots).

I had taken the holocaust more or less at face value for most of my life up to 2018 or so. Even when I naturally distrusted jews due to their consistent behaviour, I had no reason to believe in conspiracies or genetic predispositions towards subversion or falsehood. But in 2016-17, I began to learn about scholarly theories on how the stories that make up the Bible were formed. The principle of analogy, the unlikeliness of certain kinds of events, the importance of propaganda, the manipulation of words, the use of famous names to bolster one's credibility... it seemed to me that the very same process that gave us the stories of martyrdoms of apostles and tortures of early Christians (almost none of which have documentary basis outside evolving church traditions) made me wonder what other things that had seemed unquestionably true were, in fact, legends, self-serving tales, or innocent evolutions of gossip & rumour.

I can't remember exactly who linked me to CODOH, but it was in March-April 2020, at the exact moment I felt most betrayed by state, religion, neighbours, and society on the whole. Now my view of the holocaust fits into my view of human nature broadly: how individuals and cultures have their own prejudices, bigotry, and deep assumptions that aren't necessarily even conscious anymore. I mentioned Jankel Wiernik above. He's a perfect example of how politically, historically, and psychologically interesting this subject is. One can do deep-dives into a single man's character, finding out so much without learning the whole truth due to the passage of time and the obscurity of propaganda. And this is true of thousands, even millions, of little stories from 1939-1945.

It's not a matter of life & death for me, though I do share a lot of revelations I read here with a few friends, some of whom have shared them with their families. One feels as if one is part of an inner circle that better understands the roots of our world and human society. It's a lens through which to magnify my own failings in truth and belief, and learn how to correct them.

[napertos]

Interesting thread. I've been reading through the different reasons people have for being here, and I've noticed a common theme of digging into the specific details and inconsistencies of the official Holocaust story.

For me, while those details are important, I think the discussion can become too hyper-focused. I'm personally more interested in the bigger picture, in asking why this particular narrative came to dominate our understanding of the war. I believe the answer is less about what happened in the camps and more about the political reality of 1945.

At the end of the war, you had two new superpowers, the US and the Soviet Union, getting ready to carve up Europe. There was a political agreement, a new world order being drawn up. The victors needed to write the history, and most importantly, they needed to be seen as the "good guys." This presented them with a serious problem.

The uncomfortable truth, if you look at the numbers, is that the Allies—specifically the US and the British air forces—were responsible for the vast majority of civilian deaths in mainland Europe. They firebombed city after city, not just in Germany, but all over the continent. They wreaked havoc in France, the Netherlands, and Belgium, killing countless people who weren't even German. They were responsible for immense destruction.

So the question they faced was this: how do you justify that? How do you position yourself as a moral liberator when you have presided over the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians?

It's just logical. You need a new narrative. You need a story that says, "Yes, what we did was brutal, but what the other side did was so uniquely evil, so monstrously sadistic, that our actions were not only justified but absolutely necessary." You need an enemy whose alleged crimes are so far beyond the pale that they make your own actions seem righteous in comparison.
The Holocaust narrative was the perfect solution. It provided a story of unparalleled evil that allowed the Allies to wash their hands of the blood they'd spilled. It shifted the focus entirely onto the supposed crimes of the vanquished, ensuring that no one would ever question the morality of the victors.

So, to answer the original question, "Why am I here?" I'm here to look beyond the details of the deception and understand its true function. It wasn't just a random lie; it was a calculated political tool used to shape the post-war world and solidify the moral authority of those who had won through overwhelming and brutal aerial force.

So essentially a quest for truth.

[borjastick]

Good post napertos.

Like you I tend to steer away somewhat from the endless arguments about irrelevant minor details and stick to the bigger picture. The world after the war from 1950 to 1980 was a very different place to that which we find ourselves living in today. People were naive and blind. They believed what they were told and didn't argue much and certainly didn't have the access to information and records/data that they have now thanks to the internet.

I notice that the believers here are very careful about the subjects they respond to and perhaps more importantly those they have avoided like the plague.

I am fairly certain that if Russian had fallen before it did and Israel had never come into being the truth about the holocaust would be well known. The jews and Israel have far too much to lose now.

Welcome to the codoh Forum by the way.

[HansHill]

Hi Napertos,and welcome.

I am kinda the opposite of Borjastick, i'm a self-confessed details nerd and love to get lost in the details of specific and minor points, however I agree with him, and you, that the bigger picture does and should reign supreme in all of this. You might be interested in some of the non-Holocaust related sub-forums here, for example here is an excellent thread from our Hitler and the Third Reich forum where I make some very similar points to yours above about justification of war crimes!

viewtopic.php?t=255

[Wahrheitssucher]

…I've been reading through the different reasons people have for being here, and I've noticed a common theme of digging into the specific details and inconsistencies of the official Holocaust story.

For me, while those details are important, I think the discussion can become too hyper-focused. I'm personally more interested in the bigger picture, in asking why this particular narrative came to dominate our understanding of the war…

So, to answer the original question, "Why am I here?" I'm here to look beyond the details of the deception and understand its true function. It wasn't just a random lie; it was a calculated political tool used to shape the post-war world and solidify the moral authority of those who had won through overwhelming and brutal aerial force.

So essentially a quest for truth.

Welcome Napertos.
Good post!

I also share your view about discussion becoming too hyper-focused to the detriment of a view of the bigger picture.

I actually suspect there are people here who’s role is to keep discussions fixated upon endless back-and-forth on minutia in order to keep people away.
I think it’s a calculated ploy because they know most people can’t follow it, become bored, lose interest and are put off by it. It is hoped that such people will then leave CODOH with the false idea that these details are uncertain and contested. I.e. that there are credible alternative viewpoints.
The intention is to keep visitors here to a minimum and that anyone visiting out of mild curiosity will come away falsely thinking that there actually is no definitive, refutation of key aspects of holocaust mythology.
I think there are four people who have that role here: Sanitycheck, Bombsaway, Nessie and briefly Confusedjew.

[borjastick]

Precisely. I totally agree. These people are here only to try and frustrate and confuse, to divert and disrupt sensible and logical thought. They want the newbies and those who haven't got right into it to believe that the finer detail is where the truth lies and that only when one understands their assessment of this finer detail can truth be known.

The reality back on planet earth is that if you think minute sampling of Prussian blue in walls proves anything you have missed the whole point. It proves precisely the opposite of what these smugglers, vagabonds and shysters say.

If the holocaust happened as claimed the proof would be overwhelming and enormous. The fact that it isn't tells you everything you need to know about the gas chambers and the claims of millions of dead jews in industrialised murder centres and mass shootings.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Precisely. I totally agree. These people are here only to try and frustrate and confuse, to divert and disrupt sensible and logical thought. They want the newbies and those who haven't got right into it to believe that the finer detail is where the truth lies and that only when one understands their assessment of this finer detail can truth be known.

The reality back on planet earth is that if you think minute sampling of Prussian blue in walls proves anything you have missed the whole point. It proves precisely the opposite of what these smugglers, vagabonds and shysters say.

If the holocaust happened as claimed the proof would be overwhelming and enormous. The fact that it isn't tells you everything you need to know about the gas chambers and the claims of millions of dead jews in industrialised murder centres and mass shootings.

Yes!
Well said! (written)