Grok denies the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

[Eye of Zyclone]

....

Note that all the SS who first admitted it later repudiated their older false confessions, when they finally realized that it was not the perfect defense strategy they had thought at first. An American prosecutor even complained about it at a Nuremberg show trial in 1947.



...

So, the Nazis could change their evidence and challenge allegations made against them.

Yes, they were even allowed to write new affidavits never taken into account by the judges of postwar mock trials and future historians. How lucky they were, weren't they? So magnanimous...

[Nessie]

When some Nazis were told that the Holocaust was "a fact of common knowledge" (sic) that was pointless to dispute, that is, at so-called war crime trials where that "Nazi conspiracy" (sic again) was allegedly being exposed by the victors of 1945 for PR & political purposes.

What about during the war, when the Nazis had the perfect opportunity to disprove the claims?

They repudiated the story, but they were just as disbelieved as their predecessors when they repudiated the corpse-factory lie.

When gassing is evidenced, claims about delousing are disbelieved. Other wartime atrocity stories remained that way, due to the lack of corroborating evidence.

Or Nazis tried by German prosecutors,

Useless and even dangerous. Mulka got a prison sentence of 14 years just for saying that he knew nothing about an extermination policy in Auschwitz.

The West German court was satisfied with the evidence of his direct involvement in the gassing process.

or safe in South America?

As safe in South America as Eichmann?

The majority were not caught and brought back to face trial. Eichmann was interviewed in safety, by an ex-SS Willem Sassen and even then he failed to say what happened. Why did the Nazis never defend themselves by evidencing millions of Jews still alive in 1945?

Forced labor for Germany's war effort and further deportations. And those Jews didn't go missing. They were just claimed to have gone missing.

Account for the Hungarians transported to A-B in 1944. All of them. Then explain why Kramer and Mulka failed to do that.

Acount for the 13.5-17 million ethnic Germans brutally expelled from Eastern Europe during WW2, or else they all died (or at best, six million of them died as Konrad Adenauer claimed after WW2).

It was not during, it was after WWII, and the expulsion of Germans is so well evidenced, it rates a Wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_an ... 80%931950)

Now, where were all of the Hungarians, sent to Birkenau in 1944, in 1945?

How does that help you? He believes that when people go missing, it is evidence they are dead.

Yeah, that's why he had to concede that his alleged report was just a work of "poetic license" (sic) when counter-interrogated for the 1st time, at the Zündel trial of 1985.

He conceded much of his book was hearsay, in a court, at a trial, where hearsay evidence is not usually accepted.

No, he didn't hearsay. He said an "artistic picture," that is, fiction, when cornered by Zündel's tenacious lawyer (Douglas Christie) because of the too big inconsistencies and obvious falsities in his testimony.

He still conceded much of book was hearsay. What inconsistencies and falsities?

There, 4 pages ago in this thread.

She describes a gassing and has different details to other descriptions. So-called revisionists ignore the agreement and consistency amongst the witnesses about gassings and cherry-pick details that vary. Irreconcilable witnesses would diverge far more than over details.

Details? A yellow fume, or big tanks full of poison gas, or poison gas hissing from a hole in the ground, instead of blue pellets of Zyklon B dropped through wiremesh columns from holes in the ceiling are details?!?

Yes details, since the witnesses agree on the use of gas chambers.

Because the orthodox/antirevisionist narrative of the Holocaust claims that the Nazis didn't record their alleged criminal activities inside those crematoria and anyway left no tangible evidence for those alleged criminal activities behind, and because the Nazi insiders who worked there and disputed that orthodox narrative were just disbelieved and treated accordingly (heavier prison sentences for being "unrepentant Nazi criminals" and similar BS).

Wrong, the historical narrative is that the Nazis left many records of their activities, such as all the Construction Office and Tpof & Sons documents recording the construction work inside the Kremas, that corroborate the witness statements. Faced with that evidence, no Nazi could come up with an alternative, non-homicidal usage for the Kremas 1943-4.

Another big lie of yours. The Construction Office and Topf & Sons documents show no criminal activities in those crematoria. Just the storage and cremation of dead bodies. And witness statements are just alien-abduction-like useless junk and you know it.

What use is an undressing room, gas chamber for corpse storage? Why are there no witnesses to that? Why did they need to massively expand the camps cremation capacity with ovens for multiple corpse cremations? Why do other so-called revisionists say they were not used to store corpses and instead they were used for delousing, showering, or as bomb shelters?

[Eye of Zyclone]

What about during the war, when the Nazis had the perfect opportunity to disprove the claims?

They repudiated the story, but they were just as disbelieved as their predecessors when they repudiated the corpse-factory lie.

When gassing is evidenced, claims about delousing are disbelieved. Other wartime atrocity stories remained that way, due to the lack of corroborating evidence.

Wrong. The atrocity stories of the First World War collapsed because those propaganda lies were "never authoritatively recorded" by the All-Lies, as the British chief prosecutor Sir Hartley Shawcross (or rather his Jewish puppeteer) poetically put it in his opening speech at Nuremberg. That's the reason why the victors of 1945 held all those Soviet-style show trials after WW2. They had learnt from their previous mistakes. No free speech for "apologists for defeated nations" (AKA "deniers," as your lot usually put it for PR & deception purposes) this time...

Account for the Hungarians transported to A-B in 1944. All of them. Then explain why Kramer and Mulka failed to do that.

Acount for the 13.5-17 million ethnic Germans brutally expelled from Eastern Europe during WW2, or else they all died (or at best, six million of them died as Konrad Adenauer claimed after WW2).

It was not during, it was after WWII, and the expulsion of Germans is so well evidenced, it rates a Wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_an ... 80%931950)

Now, where were all of the Hungarians, sent to Birkenau in 1944, in 1945?

How does that help you? He believes that when people go missing, it is evidence they are dead.

Those six million ethnic Germans didn't go missing. They were just claimed to have gone missing. Claiming that some people have gone missing without a proof that they really did is a breeze. Do you see the connection with the six million allegedly missing Jews of WW2 now? You didn't actually believe that the homeland of Palestinians was stolen and colonized by millions of ghosts, did you?

She describes a gassing and has different details to other descriptions. So-called revisionists ignore the agreement and consistency amongst the witnesses about gassings and cherry-pick details that vary. Irreconcilable witnesses would diverge far more than over details.

Details? A yellow fume, or big tanks full of poison gas, or poison gas hissing from a hole in the ground, instead of blue pellets of Zyklon B dropped through wiremesh columns from holes in the ceiling are details?!?

Yes details, since the witnesses agree on the use of gas chambers.

Just like alien abduction witnesses do. But the testimonies of alien abduction witnesses are more convergent than the testimonies of gas chamber witnesses.

Jokes aside, this case has just exposed your flawed methodology and ridiculously low evidentiary standards. Any alleged witness failing to correctly describe a murder weapon before a court (like Ada Bimko, Zofia Litwinska and Regina Bialek did at the Lüneburg show trial) would be kicked out or even convicted of perjury in the following minute.

Wrong, the historical narrative is that the Nazis left many records of their activities, such as all the Construction Office and Tpof & Sons documents recording the construction work inside the Kremas, that corroborate the witness statements. Faced with that evidence, no Nazi could come up with an alternative, non-homicidal usage for the Kremas 1943-4.

Another big lie of yours. The Construction Office and Topf & Sons documents show no criminal activities in those crematoria. Just the storage and cremation of dead bodies. And witness statements are just alien-abduction-like useless junk and you know it.

What use is an undressing room, gas chamber for corpse storage? Why are there no witnesses to that? Why did they need to massively expand the camps cremation capacity with ovens for multiple corpse cremations? Why do other so-called revisionists say they were not used to store corpses and instead they were used for delousing, showering, or as bomb shelters?

All revisionists say that those rooms were used to store corpses. The architectural plans of the Kremas say that they were Leichenkeller 1 and Leichenkeller 2, that is, morgue 1 and morgue 2 (literally, corpse cellar 1 and corpse cellar 2). The delousing and bomb shelter things are theories about a later use of those morgues, when it was planned to convert those rooms into something else (emergency delousing stations according to Mattogno, air bomb shelters according to Samuel Crowell), as a response to Pressac's so-called "criminal traces." You really don't know anything about the revisionist arguments, do you?

The Morgues of the Crematoria at Birkenau in the Light of Documents, By Carlo Mattogno
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... au-in-the/

The Gas Chambers Of Sherlock Holmes, By Samuel Crowell
https://archive.org/details/TheGasChamb ... lockHolmes
https://codoh.com/media/files/downloads/xsherlock.pdf

Defending Against the Allied Bombing Campaign: Air Raid Shelters and Gas Protection in Germany, 1939-1945, By Samuel Crowell
https://ihr.org/journal/v20n4p15_crowell-html

[Nessie]

They repudiated the story, but they were just as disbelieved as their predecessors when they repudiated the corpse-factory lie.

When gassing is evidenced, claims about delousing are disbelieved. Other wartime atrocity stories remained that way, due to the lack of corroborating evidence.

Wrong. The atrocity stories of the First World War collapsed because those propaganda lies were "never authoritatively recorded" by the All-Lies, as the British chief prosecutor Sir Hartley Shawcross (or rather his Jewish puppeteer) poetically put it in his opening speech at Nuremberg. That's the reason why the victors of 1945 held all those Soviet-style show trials after WW2. They had learnt from their previous mistakes. No free speech for "apologists for defeated nations" (AKA "deniers," as your lot usually put it for PR & deception purposes) this time...

It is easy, except to so-called revisionists, to identify unevidenced atrocity stories, over evidenced events. You are yet again ignoring that most of the death camp trials were run by German prosecutors.

Acount for the 13.5-17 million ethnic Germans brutally expelled from Eastern Europe during WW2, or else they all died (or at best, six million of them died as Konrad Adenauer claimed after WW2).

It was not during, it was after WWII, and the expulsion of Germans is so well evidenced, it rates a Wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_an ... 80%931950)

Now, where were all of the Hungarians, sent to Birkenau in 1944, in 1945?

How does that help you? He believes that when people go missing, it is evidence they are dead.

Those six million ethnic Germans didn't go missing. They were just claimed to have gone missing. Claiming that some people have gone missing without a proof that they really did is a breeze. Do you see the connection with the six million allegedly missing Jews of WW2 now? You didn't actually believe that the homeland of Palestinians was stolen and colonized by millions of ghosts, did you?

We can evidence the eventual whereabouts of the missing Germans, you cannot do that for the missing millions of Jews.

Details? A yellow fume, or big tanks full of poison gas, or poison gas hissing from a hole in the ground, instead of blue pellets of Zyklon B dropped through wiremesh columns from holes in the ceiling are details?!?

Yes details, since the witnesses agree on the use of gas chambers.

Just like alien abduction witnesses do. But the testimonies of alien abduction witnesses are more convergent than the testimonies of gas chamber witnesses.

But they are not supported by other corroborating evidence, whereas the gassing witnesses are.

Jokes aside, this case has just exposed your flawed methodology and ridiculously low evidentiary standards. Any alleged witness failing to correctly describe a murder weapon before a court (like Ada Bimko, Zofia Litwinska and Regina Bialek did at the Lüneburg show trial) would be kicked out or even convicted of perjury in the following minute.

You don't understand evidencing and witnesses. Where a crime is proven, but the witness descriptions are poor, may not make sense and vary, that does not then disprove the crime. They will not be convicted of perjury, because they have not lied about the crime happening. The court will recognise that their recall and descriptions are poor. It is not like one said the people died by mass shooting, and another by gassing. They all agree it was gassing.

Another big lie of yours. The Construction Office and Topf & Sons documents show no criminal activities in those crematoria. Just the storage and cremation of dead bodies. And witness statements are just alien-abduction-like useless junk and you know it.

What use is an undressing room, gas chamber for corpse storage? Why are there no witnesses to that? Why did they need to massively expand the camps cremation capacity with ovens for multiple corpse cremations? Why do other so-called revisionists say they were not used to store corpses and instead they were used for delousing, showering, or as bomb shelters?

All revisionists say that those rooms were used to store corpses.

Wrong. Suggestions are also made that they were showers, delousing chambers and air raid shelters.

The architectural plans of the Kremas say that they were Leichenkeller 1 and Leichenkeller 2, that is, morgue 1 and morgue 2 (literally, corpse cellar 1 and corpse cellar 2). The delousing and bomb shelter things are theories about a later use of those morgues, when it was planned to convert those rooms into something else (emergency delousing stations according to Mattogno, air bomb shelters according to Samuel Crowell), as a response to Pressac's so-called "criminal traces." You really don't know anything about the revisionist arguments, do you?

The Morgues of the Crematoria at Birkenau in the Light of Documents, By Carlo Mattogno
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... au-in-the/

The Gas Chambers Of Sherlock Holmes, By Samuel Crowell
https://archive.org/details/TheGasChamb ... lockHolmes
https://codoh.com/media/files/downloads/xsherlock.pdf

Defending Against the Allied Bombing Campaign: Air Raid Shelters and Gas Protection in Germany, 1939-1945, By Samuel Crowell
https://ihr.org/journal/v20n4p15_crowell-html

Now prove usage. Prove that from 1943-4, the Kremas were only ever used to store corpses. Do something that Mattogno, Crowell, Butz etc all failed to do, as they came up with their competing hypothesis, none of which are evidenced enough for them to reach a consensus.

Then answer the question you dodged, why does a corpse store need an undressing room, gas chamber and multiple corpse cremation ovens? Show me a crematorium, anywhere else in the world, that has those features.

[Eye of Zyclone]

When gassing is evidenced, claims about delousing are disbelieved. Other wartime atrocity stories remained that way, due to the lack of corroborating evidence.

Wrong. The atrocity stories of the First World War collapsed because those propaganda lies were "never authoritatively recorded" by the All-Lies, as the British chief prosecutor Sir Hartley Shawcross (or rather his Jewish puppeteer) poetically put it in his opening speech at Nuremberg. That's the reason why the victors of 1945 held all those Soviet-style show trials after WW2. They had learnt from their previous mistakes. No free speech for "apologists for defeated nations" (AKA "deniers," as your lot usually put it for PR & deception purposes) this time...

It is easy, except to so-called revisionists, to identify unevidenced atrocity stories, over evidenced events. You are yet again ignoring that most of the death camp trials were run by German prosecutors.

The gas chamber story of WW2 was, and still is, as unevidenced as the gas chamber story of WW1 and the other atrocity stories of WW1 and other wars.

I didn't ignore your pseudo argument that some war crime trials were run by German prosecutors. Post-WW2 Germany can't be called an independent state by any standards and those Soviet-style show trials were run by anti-Nazi prosecutors and judges selected through the denazification of Germany.

It was not during, it was after WWII, and the expulsion of Germans is so well evidenced, it rates a Wiki article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_an ... 80%931950)

Now, where were all of the Hungarians, sent to Birkenau in 1944, in 1945?

How does that help you? He believes that when people go missing, it is evidence they are dead.

Those six million ethnic Germans didn't go missing. They were just claimed to have gone missing. Claiming that some people have gone missing without a proof that they really did is a breeze. Do you see the connection with the six million allegedly missing Jews of WW2 now? You didn't actually believe that the homeland of Palestinians was stolen and colonized by millions of ghosts, did you?

We can evidence the eventual whereabouts of the missing Germans, you cannot do that for the missing millions of Jews.

I can't give you the postwar addresses of the 13-17 million ethnic Germans who were expelled from Eastern Europe nor the postwar addresses of the 6 million ethnic Germans who went missing according to Adenauer. Nobody can.



And you can't either give the new addresses of all the Palestinians who vanished during the Nakba and later "wars," but you don't claim that they died in spite of this.

Yes details, since the witnesses agree on the use of gas chambers.

Just like alien abduction witnesses do. But the testimonies of alien abduction witnesses are more convergent than the testimonies of gas chamber witnesses.

But they are not supported by other corroborating evidence, whereas the gassing witnesses are.

No, they are not. Anything can be supported by other corroborating "evidence" when the other side is not allowed to talk and publically assess that "evidence."

Jokes aside, this case has just exposed your flawed methodology and ridiculously low evidentiary standards. Any alleged witness failing to correctly describe a murder weapon before a court (like Ada Bimko, Zofia Litwinska and Regina Bialek did at the Lüneburg show trial) would be kicked out or even convicted of perjury in the following minute.

You don't understand evidencing and witnesses. Where a crime is proven, but the witness descriptions are poor, may not make sense and vary, that does not then disprove the crime. They will not be convicted of perjury, because they have not lied about the crime happening. The court will recognise that their recall and descriptions are poor. It is not like one said the people died by mass shooting, and another by gassing. They all agree it was gassing.

They should have been convicted of perjury because they claimed they saw something they had patently not seen (even regarding the false narrative now repeated ad nauseam by Holohoaxers). That's what perjury and false testimonies are all about. Your blatant bad faith just keeps exposing more and more your poorly concealed political biases and agenda.

All revisionists say that those rooms were used to store corpses.

Wrong. Suggestions are also made that they were showers, delousing chambers and air raid shelters.

Hypothesis were formulated that those rooms were used as delousing stations (equipped with shower rooms like all delousing stations) and/or air raid shelters after they had been used as morgues. Or in other words, it was hypothetized that those morgues were altered after a while and converted into something else to meet specific needs at a later time, that is, after they had been built and used as morgues for the storage of surplus corpses during large epidemics.

The architectural plans of the Kremas say that they were Leichenkeller 1 and Leichenkeller 2, that is, morgue 1 and morgue 2 (literally, corpse cellar 1 and corpse cellar 2). The delousing and bomb shelter things are theories about a later use of those morgues, when it was planned to convert those rooms into something else (emergency delousing stations according to Mattogno, air bomb shelters according to Samuel Crowell), as a response to Pressac's so-called "criminal traces." You really don't know anything about the revisionist arguments, do you?

The Morgues of the Crematoria at Birkenau in the Light of Documents, By Carlo Mattogno
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... au-in-the/

The Gas Chambers Of Sherlock Holmes, By Samuel Crowell
https://archive.org/details/TheGasChamb ... lockHolmes
https://codoh.com/media/files/downloads/xsherlock.pdf

Defending Against the Allied Bombing Campaign: Air Raid Shelters and Gas Protection in Germany, 1939-1945, By Samuel Crowell
https://ihr.org/journal/v20n4p15_crowell-html

Now prove usage. Prove that from 1943-4, the Kremas were only ever used to store corpses. Do something that Mattogno, Crowell, Butz etc all failed to do, as they came up with their competing hypothesis, none of which are evidenced enough for them to reach a consensus.

Then answer the question you dodged, why does a corpse store need an undressing room, gas chamber and multiple corpse cremation ovens? Show me a crematorium, anywhere else in the world, that has those features.

As Mattogno's paper linked above explained, an emergency delousing station (equipped with a gas chamber for the delousing of lice-infested clothes and a shower room for the delousing of inmates) was planned in a Birkenau crematorium in order to contain a big typhus epidemic. But the project was never achieved because it was dropped when permanent delousing stations were finally built elsewhere in the camp and made it unnecessary and obsolete. Your flawed reasoning illustrates very well the problem of gross ignorance mixed with a priori conclusions.

Moreover the shower-oven combination existed in some German concentration camps. For instance, in Strutthof-Natzweiller, the heat generated by crematory ovens was used to heat shower water. As a consequence of this, a shower room was located next to the oven room, that is, in the crematorium. Now some British cities do the same thing to heat swimming pools.

[Nessie]

...

The gas chamber story of WW2 was, and still is, as unevidenced as the gas chamber story of WW1 and the other atrocity stories of WW1 and other wars.

It is a Holocaust denier deception, to claim that gas chambers lack evidence and are just atrocity stories. I do not fall for that.

I didn't ignore your pseudo argument that some war crime trials were run by German prosecutors. Post-WW2 Germany can't be called an independent state by any standards and those Soviet-style show trials were run by anti-Nazi prosecutors and judges selected through the denazification of Germany.

You suggest the West German trials were Soviet style. Please evidence that claim and show the way the trials were run, was as trials in the SU and not West Germany were run.

Please evidence your claim that judges were selected through de-Nazification.

Those prosecutions have continued to the present day, even after Germany unified. Explain that.

East and West Germany would have both greatly benefitted by exposing the Holocaust as a hoax, but that would need evidence and there was none.

Those six million ethnic Germans didn't go missing. They were just claimed to have gone missing. Claiming that some people have gone missing without a proof that they really did is a breeze. Do you see the connection with the six million allegedly missing Jews of WW2 now? You didn't actually believe that the homeland of Palestinians was stolen and colonized by millions of ghosts, did you?

We can evidence the eventual whereabouts of the missing Germans, you cannot do that for the missing millions of Jews.

I can't give you the postwar addresses of the 13-17 million ethnic Germans who were expelled from Eastern Europe nor the postwar addresses of the 6 million ethnic Germans who went missing according to Adenauer. Nobody can.

There is a ton of evidence that can be used to trace individuals and show where groups were expelled from and where they went. You cannot do that for millions of Jews arrested by the Nazis.

The mass graves and areas full of cremated remains have been found.

Just like alien abduction witnesses do. But the testimonies of alien abduction witnesses are more convergent than the testimonies of gas chamber witnesses.

But they are not supported by other corroborating evidence, whereas the gassing witnesses are.

No, they are not. Anything can be supported by other corroborating "evidence" when the other side is not allowed to talk and publically assess that "evidence."

Holocaust deniers have accessed archives, and they can publicly discuss their finds. You are inventing more deceptions.

You don't understand evidencing and witnesses. Where a crime is proven, but the witness descriptions are poor, may not make sense and vary, that does not then disprove the crime. They will not be convicted of perjury, because they have not lied about the crime happening. The court will recognise that their recall and descriptions are poor. It is not like one said the people died by mass shooting, and another by gassing. They all agree it was gassing.

They should have been convicted of perjury because they claimed they saw something they had patently not seen (even regarding the false narrative now repeated ad nauseam by Holohoaxers). That's what perjury and false testimonies are all about. Your blatant bad faith just keeps exposing more and more your poorly concealed political biases and agenda.

Their claims are corroborated, so they cannot be convicted of perjury, as it cannot be proven they lied.

Wrong. Suggestions are also made that they were showers, delousing chambers and air raid shelters.

Hypothesis were formulated that those rooms were used as delousing stations (equipped with shower rooms like all delousing stations) and/or air raid shelters after they had been used as morgues. Or in other words, it was hypothetized that those morgues were altered after a while and converted into something else to meet specific needs at a later time, that is, after they had been built and used as morgues for the storage of surplus corpses during large epidemics.

You do know what hypothesis means, don't you? It means you have no evidence.

Now prove usage. Prove that from 1943-4, the Kremas were only ever used to store corpses. Do something that Mattogno, Crowell, Butz etc all failed to do, as they came up with their competing hypothesis, none of which are evidenced enough for them to reach a consensus.

Then answer the question you dodged, why does a corpse store need an undressing room, gas chamber and multiple corpse cremation ovens? Show me a crematorium, anywhere else in the world, that has those features.

As Mattogno's paper linked above explained, an emergency delousing station (equipped with a gas chamber for the delousing of lice-infested clothes and a shower room for the delousing of inmates) was planned in a Birkenau crematorium in order to contain a big typhus epidemic. But the project was never achieved because it was dropped when permanent delousing stations were finally built elsewhere in the camp and made it unnecessary and obsolete. Your flawed reasoning illustrates very well the problem of gross ignorance mixed with a priori conclusions.

Therefore, he fails to prove actual usage.

Moreover the shower-oven combination existed in some German concentration camps. For instance, in Strutthof-Natzweiller, the heat generated by crematory ovens was used to heat shower water. As a consequence of this, a shower room was located next to the oven room, that is, in the crematorium. Now some British cities do the same thing to heat swimming pools.

Another unevidenced hypothesis. Come back when you can evidence usage.

[Eye of Zyclone]

The gas chamber story of WW2 was, and still is, as unevidenced as the gas chamber story of WW1 and the other atrocity stories of WW1 and other wars.

It is a Holocaust denier deception, to claim that gas chambers lack evidence and are just atrocity stories. I do not fall for that.

Nope, it was conceded by antirevisionist historians.

I didn't ignore your pseudo argument that some war crime trials were run by German prosecutors. Post-WW2 Germany can't be called an independent state by any standards and those Soviet-style show trials were run by anti-Nazi prosecutors and judges selected through the denazification of Germany.

You suggest the West German trials were Soviet style. Please evidence that claim and show the way the trials were run, was as trials in the SU and not West Germany were run.

Please evidence your claim that judges were selected through de-Nazification.

Those prosecutions have continued to the present day, even after Germany unified. Explain that.

East and West Germany would have both greatly benefitted by exposing the Holocaust as a hoax, but that would need evidence and there was none.

Germany is clearly a vassal state of the American Empire, like the rest of the European Union.

We can evidence the eventual whereabouts of the missing Germans, you cannot do that for the missing millions of Jews.

I can't give you the postwar addresses of the 13-17 million ethnic Germans who were expelled from Eastern Europe nor the postwar addresses of the 6 million ethnic Germans who went missing according to Adenauer. Nobody can.

There is a ton of evidence that can be used to trace individuals and show where groups were expelled from and where they went. You cannot do that for millions of Jews arrested by the Nazis.

No, you can't trace individual ethnic Germans and show where they resettled. And it's no surprise one can't do that for the Jews deported by the Nazis since the Soviets admittedly performed no population census in the territories they administered after WW2.

The mass graves and areas full of cremated remains have been found.

Only for a tiny portion of the alleged deaths. Feel free to prove otherwise in of the threads where keen challenges people to do that.

But they are not supported by other corroborating evidence, whereas the gassing witnesses are.

No, they are not. Anything can be supported by other corroborating "evidence" when the other side is not allowed to talk and publically assess that "evidence."

Holocaust deniers have accessed archives, and they can publicly discuss their finds. You are inventing more deceptions.

Thanks for allowing Holocaust revisionists to talk to 50 people in some small conference rooms. So magnanimous. Phew, glad to see that free speech is safe.

You don't understand evidencing and witnesses. Where a crime is proven, but the witness descriptions are poor, may not make sense and vary, that does not then disprove the crime. They will not be convicted of perjury, because they have not lied about the crime happening. The court will recognise that their recall and descriptions are poor. It is not like one said the people died by mass shooting, and another by gassing. They all agree it was gassing.

They should have been convicted of perjury because they claimed they saw something they had patently not seen (even regarding the false narrative now repeated ad nauseam by Holohoaxers). That's what perjury and false testimonies are all about. Your blatant bad faith just keeps exposing more and more your poorly concealed political biases and agenda.

Their claims are corroborated, so they cannot be convicted of perjury, as it cannot be proven they lied.

Of course it can be proven they lied. No small windows and yellow fumes, no big tanks full of poison gas connected to shower heads and no holes in the floors from which poison gas entered those rooms. Their claims are corroborated by nothing. Even antirevisionist historians would now concede that they lied if cornered about that.

Wrong. Suggestions are also made that they were showers, delousing chambers and air raid shelters.

Hypothesis were formulated that those rooms were used as delousing stations (equipped with shower rooms like all delousing stations) and/or air raid shelters after they had been used as morgues. Or in other words, it was hypothetized that those morgues were altered after a while and converted into something else to meet specific needs at a later time, that is, after they had been built and used as morgues for the storage of surplus corpses during large epidemics.

You do know what hypothesis means, don't you? It means you have no evidence.

No, it means that researchers formulate hypotheses and then test those hypotheses (which was done in the books linked above, books you didn't read and never will).

Now prove usage. Prove that from 1943-4, the Kremas were only ever used to store corpses. Do something that Mattogno, Crowell, Butz etc all failed to do, as they came up with their competing hypothesis, none of which are evidenced enough for them to reach a consensus.

Then answer the question you dodged, why does a corpse store need an undressing room, gas chamber and multiple corpse cremation ovens? Show me a crematorium, anywhere else in the world, that has those features.

As Mattogno's paper linked above explained, an emergency delousing station (equipped with a gas chamber for the delousing of lice-infested clothes and a shower room for the delousing of inmates) was planned in a Birkenau crematorium in order to contain a big typhus epidemic. But the project was never achieved because it was dropped when permanent delousing stations were finally built elsewhere in the camp and made it unnecessary and obsolete. Your flawed reasoning illustrates very well the problem of gross ignorance mixed with a priori conclusions.

Therefore, he fails to prove actual usage.

And he proved that those alleged criminal traces had nothing criminal.

All administrations in the world discuss about things that ultimately never materialize. That's what projects are.

Moreover the shower-oven combination existed in some German concentration camps. For instance, in Strutthof-Natzweiller, the heat generated by crematory ovens was used to heat shower water. As a consequence of this, a shower room was located next to the oven room, that is, in the crematorium. Now some British cities do the same thing to heat swimming pools.

Another unevidenced hypothesis. Come back when you can evidence usage.

Not an unevidenced hypothesis. The device used to do that is still there. All the visitors who go there can see it with their own eyes. Not disputed by any antirevisionist historian or anyone else except for yourself (who knows nothing about that camp and all the other German camps of WW2, patently).

[Nessie]

The gas chamber story of WW2 was, and still is, as unevidenced as the gas chamber story of WW1 and the other atrocity stories of WW1 and other wars.

It is a Holocaust denier deception, to claim that gas chambers lack evidence and are just atrocity stories. I do not fall for that.

Nope, it was conceded by antirevisionist historians.

The SS did take care to destroy as many records as possible, but many survived, most notably the Auschwitz Construction Office and Topf & Sons records, many transport, camp and ghetto documents and various orders, such as Hitler authorising euthanasia and Himmler reporting on the mass execution of Jews.

That SS camp staff and Jewish prisoners agree and corroborate each other on the primary events inside the camps, is strong corroborative evidence.

As for contradictions, ambiguities and errors, they are in the details. There is no contradiction regarding how the death camps functioned.

The Nazi and Jewish eyewitnesses, who worked inside the death camps, are corroborated by documentation. For example, documents record mass transports to and arrivals at the camps, with no corresponding onward transport. The mass theft of personal possessions is documented, as are the worker selections. I disagree about the supposed lack of traces. Buildings exist where witnesses describe gas chambers. Testing has found traces of HCN at A-B. Archaeologists have found large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains.

That Hilberg the historian, could not name a scientific report, is just something so-called revisionists latch onto. Chemical testing was first conducted by the Polish in 1945, that proved vents recovered from the ruins of Krema II had been contaminated with HCN. Maybe Hilberg did not remember that, whilst being cross examined.

I didn't ignore your pseudo argument that some war crime trials were run by German prosecutors. Post-WW2 Germany can't be called an independent state by any standards and those Soviet-style show trials were run by anti-Nazi prosecutors and judges selected through the denazification of Germany.

You suggest the West German trials were Soviet style. Please evidence that claim and show the way the trials were run, was as trials in the SU and not West Germany were run.

Please evidence your claim that judges were selected through de-Nazification.

Those prosecutions have continued to the present day, even after Germany unified. Explain that.

East and West Germany would have both greatly benefitted by exposing the Holocaust as a hoax, but that would need evidence and there was none.

Germany is clearly a vassal state of the American Empire, like the rest of the European Union.

IOW, you have no evidence to back up your claims and you have no rational explanation why Germans would lie to Germans about the Holocaust.

I can't give you the postwar addresses of the 13-17 million ethnic Germans who were expelled from Eastern Europe nor the postwar addresses of the 6 million ethnic Germans who went missing according to Adenauer. Nobody can.

There is a ton of evidence that can be used to trace individuals and show where groups were expelled from and where they went. You cannot do that for millions of Jews arrested by the Nazis.

No, you can't trace individual ethnic Germans and show where they resettled. And it's no surprise one can't do that for the Jews deported by the Nazis since the Soviets admittedly performed no population census in the territories they administered after WW2.

You have left a chronological gap. The vast majority of Jews disappeared, 1939-44, after they had been arrested by the Nazis, who produced reports about the huge drops in the Jewish population.

Enough individual Germans and groups, who were displaced after the war, to prove they were no subject to mass killings. You cannot do that with the Jews arrested by the Nazis.

The issue is not Jews who avoided arrest, it is the millions who were arrested and sent to camps and ghettos 1939-44. You cannot show millions of them still alive in camps and ghettos in 1944.

The mass graves and areas full of cremated remains have been found.

Only for a tiny portion of the alleged deaths. Feel free to prove otherwise in of the threads where keen challenges people to do that.

That Keen and others deny the finding of large areas of disturbed ground containing human remains at the AR camps is like me denying the British bombed Dresden. It is one of the reasons why you lot are deniers, not revisionists.

No, they are not. Anything can be supported by other corroborating "evidence" when the other side is not allowed to talk and publically assess that "evidence."

Holocaust deniers have accessed archives, and they can publicly discuss their finds. You are inventing more deceptions.

Thanks for allowing Holocaust revisionists to talk to 50 people in some small conference rooms. So magnanimous. Phew, glad to see that free speech is safe.

I am referring to the likes of Mattogno, Cole, Pressac and Rudolf who have all had access to archives, such as at Auschwitz. Their search for evidence, has just uncovered even more to prove gassings.

They should have been convicted of perjury because they claimed they saw something they had patently not seen (even regarding the false narrative now repeated ad nauseam by Holohoaxers). That's what perjury and false testimonies are all about. Your blatant bad faith just keeps exposing more and more your poorly concealed political biases and agenda.

Their claims are corroborated, so they cannot be convicted of perjury, as it cannot be proven they lied.

Of course it can be proven they lied. No small windows and yellow fumes, no big tanks full of poison gas connected to shower heads and no holes in the floors from which poison gas entered those rooms. Their claims are corroborated by nothing. Even antirevisionist historians would now concede that they lied if cornered about that.

I would point to all the studies of memory and recall, to explain odd descriptions and that the eyewitnesses agree, there were gas chambers, which means they are corroborated and along with the other evidence, are proven not to be lying about the use of gassings to murder Jews.

Hypothesis were formulated that those rooms were used as delousing stations (equipped with shower rooms like all delousing stations) and/or air raid shelters after they had been used as morgues. Or in other words, it was hypothetized that those morgues were altered after a while and converted into something else to meet specific needs at a later time, that is, after they had been built and used as morgues for the storage of surplus corpses during large epidemics.

You do know what hypothesis means, don't you? It means you have no evidence.

No, it means that researchers formulate hypotheses and then test those hypotheses (which was done in the books linked above, books you didn't read and never will).

So-called revisionists promote various conflicting hypothesis and think, job done. That is why they are just deniers, as they cannot actually revise the history of usage of the Kremas.

As Mattogno's paper linked above explained, an emergency delousing station (equipped with a gas chamber for the delousing of lice-infested clothes and a shower room for the delousing of inmates) was planned in a Birkenau crematorium in order to contain a big typhus epidemic. But the project was never achieved because it was dropped when permanent delousing stations were finally built elsewhere in the camp and made it unnecessary and obsolete. Your flawed reasoning illustrates very well the problem of gross ignorance mixed with a priori conclusions.

Therefore, he fails to prove actual usage.

And he proved that those alleged criminal traces had nothing criminal.

All administrations in the world discuss about things that ultimately never materialize. That's what projects are.

He failed to prove that the gas chambers inside the Kremas were actually used to delouse clothing. Rudolf and Leuchter specifically claim they cannot have been used for gassings. Therefore, he has failed to prove a non criminal use for the gas chambers.

Moreover the shower-oven combination existed in some German concentration camps. For instance, in Strutthof-Natzweiller, the heat generated by crematory ovens was used to heat shower water. As a consequence of this, a shower room was located next to the oven room, that is, in the crematorium. Now some British cities do the same thing to heat swimming pools.

Another unevidenced hypothesis. Come back when you can evidence usage.

Not an unevidenced hypothesis. The device used to do that is still there. All the visitors who go there can see it with their own eyes. Not disputed by any antirevisionist historian or anyone else except for yourself (who knows nothing about that camp and all the other German camps of WW2, patently).

You don't understand that to revise history, you cannot merely suggest something else might have happened, you have to prove something else happened. You have zero evidence the gas chambers inside the Kremas were being used to delouse clothing, 1943-4.