Did Polish investigations save the day?

[Hektor]

When the casus belli of Polish Sovereignty fell to the wayside, I suppose it was best to kick back on the propaganda of the holocaust to paint the German people as evil and deserving of the firebombing and dam busting. All the better that in the end the claims centered behind the iron curtain because when the music finally stopped, the western allies could say, 'wasn't me, I didn't do it'.

Who could imagine that the music would play this long. We still haven't reached the end of the song.

I fully expect some heart string pulling movie about a crippled violinist being gassed by evil nazis underneath Auschwitz Birkenau next year. And I expect it to win all of the awards, like the movie 'ass' from idiocracy.

Polish sovereignty obviously wasn't the casus belli. It was however a clever excuse to declare war on Germany a country envied by many within the British elites for long already. If those in Britain that pushed for a guarantee to Poland really cared about Polish sovereignty, they'd have advised the Poles to come to terms with their most important neighbor, Germany.

The de facto blank cheque to Poland was almost a guarantee to get a war between Poland and Germany going.

That ordinary folks would realize that they were taken for a ride by their own elites was a real risk at the time, but one that could be eased. Simply paint the enemy 'Germany' in the most gruesome, despicable light possible and this would shut up any further questions.

For Poland the issue was similar. They maltreated their own minorities in the interbellum period including millions of Germans that were still living on the East German territory they gained after WW1. Many of those were murdered around and after September 1. !939 And afterwards the largest portion of Eastern Germans were either murdered or expelled directly after WW1. Those were more than 12 million in rump Germany afterwards, which were naturally quite bitter about this. So making their own folks believe in the 'evil German' narrative and as bonus making Germans themselves believe in it is helpful to Polish, too.

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'. This doesn't specify of course and it also ignores how those 'admissions' came about decades after WW2. It ignores the German mass neurosis, too. It serves as a joker argument nevertheless.

To believe all this one needs to ignore the campaign character of all this and dismiss pointing this out as 'conspiracy theories'.... Something that has become the blanket dismissal in the 2020s. That the Holocaust Narrative in fact all the anti-German accusations are literally conspiracy theories is however ignored.

[Stubble]

The Germans knew how to investigate an atrocity.

https://odysee.com/@Stubble:4/The-Polis ... ffice%29:0

There is a similar report on Katyn.

I see echos of this in the Donbas today with the actions of groups like tornado, misanthropic division etc there before the war started. What choice was left to Germany? What choice left to Russia in the present times?

I don't at all disagree Herr Hektor, on the contrary, we see things from a very similar angle.

[Nessie]

... That the Holocaust Narrative in fact all the anti-German accusations are literally conspiracy theories is however ignored.

No, it is evidenced to have happened. The Nazis conspired, often with the help of other nations they occupied, or aligned to, to steal Jewish property, force they out of those countries and to kill them.

[Eye of Zyclone]

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'.

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Innocence Project

Overall, the Innocence Project's DNA exonerations identified several contributors of wrongful convictions, including mistaken eyewitness identifications, invalid forensic science, false confessions, informants who lied, and government misconduct.[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

[Nessie]

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'.

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Innocence Project

Overall, the Innocence Project's DNA exonerations identified several contributors of wrongful convictions, including mistaken eyewitness identifications, invalid forensic science, false confessions, informants who lied, and government misconduct.[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

Something that so-called revisionists ignore, is the amount of help the Nazis got, including from Western countries. From Norway to Greece, France to Latvia, there were people who actively helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. So, it was not just the Nazis who admitted to what happened, it was Dutch, French, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Serbians and everywhere else aligned to or occupied during the war.

There are two exceptions, Denmark and Finland, as they refused to cooperate and the vast majority of their Jewish citizens survived, as they avoided being arrested.

[Eye of Zyclone]

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'.

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Innocence Project

Overall, the Innocence Project's DNA exonerations identified several contributors of wrongful convictions, including mistaken eyewitness identifications, invalid forensic science, false confessions, informants who lied, and government misconduct.[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

Something that so-called revisionists ignore, is the amount of help the Nazis got, including from Western countries. From Norway to Greece, France to Latvia, there were people who actively helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. So, it was not just the Nazis who admitted to what happened, it was Dutch, French, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Serbians and everywhere else aligned to or occupied during the war.

There are two exceptions, Denmark and Finland, as they refused to cooperate and the vast majority of their Jewish citizens survived, as they avoided being arrested.

Do you want anybody to believe that the Nazis had a policy of secrecy and concealment full of alleged code words & euphemisms, incinerated documents, isolated death camps, mass-grave obliteration units and gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, but also a policy of telling their collaborators everything about their alleged most secret of secrets?

According to Louis Darquier de Pellepoix, their main collaborator in France regarding the Jewish question, "only lice were gassed at Auschwitz."

[Nessie]

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Something that so-called revisionists ignore, is the amount of help the Nazis got, including from Western countries. From Norway to Greece, France to Latvia, there were people who actively helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. So, it was not just the Nazis who admitted to what happened, it was Dutch, French, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Serbians and everywhere else aligned to or occupied during the war.

There are two exceptions, Denmark and Finland, as they refused to cooperate and the vast majority of their Jewish citizens survived, as they avoided being arrested.

Do you want anybody to believe that the Nazis had a policy of secrecy and concealment full of alleged code words & euphemisms, incinerated documents, isolated death camps, mass-grave obliteration units and gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, but also a policy of telling their collaborators everything about their alleged most secret of secrets?

Straw man. In Germany and Western Europe, the collaborators believed they were assisting with resettlement. It was countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Serbia, that the assistance was killing Jews.

According to Louis Darquier de Pellepoix, their main collaborator in France regarding the Jewish question, "only lice were gassed at Auschwitz."

Poland, whilst providing many collaborators, and some who took the opportunity to kill Jews, such as at Jedwabne, also provided many who assisted in saving Jews. The post war Polish government tried and convicted Poles who had assisted the Nazis with the killings.

[Hektor]

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'.

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Innocence Project

Overall, the Innocence Project's DNA exonerations identified several contributors of wrongful convictions, including mistaken eyewitness identifications, invalid forensic science, false confessions, informants who lied, and government misconduct.[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

It's the whole program of course. And policemen can tell you how big a problem false confessions are....

[TlsMS93]

Polish sovereignty obviously wasn't the casus belli. It was however a clever excuse to declare war on Germany a country envied by many within the British elites for long already. If those in Britain that pushed for a guarantee to Poland really cared about Polish sovereignty, they'd have advised the Poles to come to terms with their most important neighbor, Germany.

The de facto blank cheque to Poland was almost a guarantee to get a war between Poland and Germany going.

That ordinary folks would realize that they were taken for a ride by their own elites was a real risk at the time, but one that could be eased. Simply paint the enemy 'Germany' in the most gruesome, despicable light possible and this would shut up any further questions.

For Poland the issue was similar. They maltreated their own minorities in the interbellum period including millions of Germans that were still living on the East German territory they gained after WW1. Many of those were murdered around and after September 1. !939 And afterwards the largest portion of Eastern Germans were either murdered or expelled directly after WW1. Those were more than 12 million in rump Germany afterwards, which were naturally quite bitter about this. So making their own folks believe in the 'evil German' narrative and as bonus making Germans themselves believe in it is helpful to Polish, too.

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'. This doesn't specify of course and it also ignores how those 'admissions' came about decades after WW2. It ignores the German mass neurosis, too. It serves as a joker argument nevertheless.

To believe all this one needs to ignore the campaign character of all this and dismiss pointing this out as 'conspiracy theories'.... Something that has become the blanket dismissal in the 2020s. That the Holocaust Narrative in fact all the anti-German accusations are literally conspiracy theories is however ignored.

There is a whole series of alleged speeches by Hitler that would suggest that neither Danzig nor the German minority were the causes of the invasion, but rather Lebensraum. "Danzig is not the cause," Hitler supposedly told his military commanders, or that he had prepared in advance death squads to exterminate without mercy or pity Polish-speaking or ascendant populations.

Of course, all these accusations are false, but they appear in standard research on the origins of World War II.

If they were so petty as to invest in speeches, what else wouldn't they be capable of? Giving credence to clandestine reports from German camps that served any purpose in boosting troop morale and shaming German troops through propaganda and radio broadcasts in Germany—the campaign in favor of the White Rose movement with leaflets scattered through the air is proof of this—they were interested in anything that could serve the war effort.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Something that so-called revisionists ignore, is the amount of help the Nazis got, including from Western countries. From Norway to Greece, France to Latvia, there were people who actively helped the Nazis with the Final Solution. So, it was not just the Nazis who admitted to what happened, it was Dutch, French, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians, Serbians and everywhere else aligned to or occupied during the war.

There are two exceptions, Denmark and Finland, as they refused to cooperate and the vast majority of their Jewish citizens survived, as they avoided being arrested.

Do you want anybody to believe that the Nazis had a policy of secrecy and concealment full of alleged code words & euphemisms, incinerated documents, isolated death camps, mass-grave obliteration units and gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, but also a policy of telling their collaborators everything about their alleged most secret of secrets?

Straw man. In Germany and Western Europe, the collaborators believed they were assisting with resettlement. It was countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Serbia, that the assistance was killing Jews.

The pogroms in Eastern Europe under German occupation were not assistance or collaboration. They were spontaneous local reprisals for the atrocities previously perpetrated by the Bolsheviks in those areas. Some kind of Slavic karma, if you will. Not ordered or even less requested by the Germans. And not part of any imaginary Nazi extermination program either...

[Eye of Zyclone]

The key is however that people believe that 'the Germans themselves admitted to all this, so it must be true'.

The brainwashed Western normies are much less fond of the argument that "X admitted to all this, so it must be true" when the Innocence Project debunks the past false confessions of convicted negroes with DNA testings.

Innocence Project

Overall, the Innocence Project's DNA exonerations identified several contributors of wrongful convictions, including mistaken eyewitness identifications, invalid forensic science, false confessions, informants who lied, and government misconduct.[49]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innocence_Project

It's the whole program of course. And policemen can tell you how big a problem false confessions are....

That's not a problem when it comes to convicting innocent people in order to support false narratives for political purposes, isn't it?

[Nessie]

Do you want anybody to believe that the Nazis had a policy of secrecy and concealment full of alleged code words & euphemisms, incinerated documents, isolated death camps, mass-grave obliteration units and gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, but also a policy of telling their collaborators everything about their alleged most secret of secrets?

Straw man. In Germany and Western Europe, the collaborators believed they were assisting with resettlement. It was countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Serbia, that the assistance was killing Jews.

The pogroms in Eastern Europe under German occupation were not assistance or collaboration. They were spontaneous local reprisals for the atrocities previously perpetrated by the Bolsheviks in those areas. Some kind of Slavic karma, if you will. Not ordered or even less requested by the Germans. And not part of any imaginary Nazi extermination program either...

People from those Eastern European countries, took the opportunity the Nazis provided, to murder Jews and steal their property. Something those countries, reluctantly now admit took place. Why would they admit to a hoax, that for decades was largely ignored and what did happen to their Jewish citizens?

[Eye of Zyclone]

Straw man. In Germany and Western Europe, the collaborators believed they were assisting with resettlement. It was countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Romania and Serbia, that the assistance was killing Jews.

The pogroms in Eastern Europe under German occupation were not assistance or collaboration. They were spontaneous local reprisals for the atrocities previously perpetrated by the Bolsheviks in those areas. Some kind of Slavic karma, if you will. Not ordered or even less requested by the Germans. And not part of any imaginary Nazi extermination program either...

People from those Eastern European countries, took the opportunity the Nazis provided, to murder Jews and steal their property. Something those countries, reluctantly now admit took place. Why would they admit to a hoax, that for decades was largely ignored and what did happen to their Jewish citizens?

No Holocaust revisionist ever denied that some Jews were killed in the local retaliatory pogroms that took place in Eastern Europe to avenge the atrocities perpetrated by their Bolshevik co-religionists in those areas when those lands were temporarily freed from the clutches of the Judeo-Bolsheviks by some Nazi liberators. Off topic in a debate about the Holohoax if I'm asked.

[Nessie]

The pogroms in Eastern Europe under German occupation were not assistance or collaboration. They were spontaneous local reprisals for the atrocities previously perpetrated by the Bolsheviks in those areas. Some kind of Slavic karma, if you will. Not ordered or even less requested by the Germans. And not part of any imaginary Nazi extermination program either...

People from those Eastern European countries, took the opportunity the Nazis provided, to murder Jews and steal their property. Something those countries, reluctantly now admit took place. Why would they admit to a hoax, that for decades was largely ignored and what did happen to their Jewish citizens?

No Holocaust revisionist ever denied that some Jews were killed in the local retaliatory pogroms that took place in Eastern Europe to avenge the atrocities perpetrated by their Bolshevik co-religionists in those areas when those lands were temporarily freed from the clutches of the Judeo-Bolsheviks by some Nazi liberators. Off topic in a debate about the Holohoax if I'm asked.

The reports of mass killings and executions from Eastern Europe, variously list criminals, partisans, Communists and Jews. Areas are declared Jew free, so it was not just some Jews, it was all of them. The policy was to rid Eastern Europe of Jews, and many Eastern Europeans, including Poles, approved and joined in with the killings. When Poles, Latvians, Lithuanians and Romanians join in the killing of Jews, how is that retaliation? What were they retaliating against?

[Hektor]

Polish sovereignty obviously wasn't the casus belli. .....
To believe all this one needs to ignore the campaign character of all this and dismiss pointing this out as 'conspiracy theories'.... Something that has become the blanket dismissal in the 2020s. That the Holocaust Narrative in fact all the anti-German accusations are literally conspiracy theories is however ignored.

There is a whole series of alleged speeches by Hitler that would suggest that neither Danzig nor the German minority were the causes of the invasion, but rather Lebensraum. "Danzig is not the cause," Hitler supposedly told his military commanders, or that he had prepared in advance death squads to exterminate without mercy or pity Polish-speaking or ascendant populations.

Of course, all these accusations are false, but they appear in standard research on the origins of World War II.

If they were so petty as to invest in speeches, what else wouldn't they be capable of? Giving credence to clandestine reports from German camps that served any purpose in boosting troop morale and shaming German troops through propaganda and radio broadcasts in Germany—the campaign in favor of the White Rose movement with leaflets scattered through the air is proof of this—they were interested in anything that could serve the war effort.

The obscure secret speeches. That should actually ring the alarm bell and mixing it into the testimony will produce a distorted picture, which is what was desired.

As for radio broadcasts and leaflets, I doubt many Germans gave that credence at the time. It was often to blatant and they knew it came from people that had lied to them in the past. Doubt Germans over 40 would have believed it, even if they were no particular fans of the NSDAP. And as for younger people, their focus was that they NSDAP had delivered what Hitler promised. So weighting the issue would also lead to dismissal of propaganda. And this all without deeper knowledge of the atrocity campaign going against Germany already for a time then. Accusations ar believed now, because they were repeated and continued after WW2... And its actually a new generation of Germans that created the narrative.