bombsaway wrote: ↑Mon Dec 29, 2025 6:16 am
"Audio for most speeches lacks Jewish-related segments"
this is what I was responding to when I posted the audio. You haven't evidenced your position here, it's all just BS
No, you
believe what I have said is BS. You have not evidenced any BS.
That said, the 25 May 1944 speech you linked was
not at Sonthofen; it was at Kochem (a few hours' drive away from Sonthofen) to an audience of German jurists, on a different day than the Sonthofen speeches. Nonetheless, I went ahead and got a transcription of this speech as I figured it could be helpful to analyze, given it is close to when the Sonthofen speeches were delivered. Here are two key excerpts:
Wenn man von Rassenfrage... sprach, sagt man: 'Ihr Gott, das wissen wir schon. Ihr mögt die Juden nicht.'
[Translated: "When the subject of the 'racial question' came up... people would say: 'Oh God, we already know that. You don't like the Jews.'"]
Himmler's words following this statement show he is dismissing the simplistic 'Jew-hatred' view ascribed to him and instead defends positive racial selection (preserving Nordic blood).
Ich bin so dankbar, dass die Engländer, die Amerikaner, die Russen und vor allem die Juden so dumm sind, die Gestapo so riesengroß hinzustellen.
[Translated: "I am so grateful that the English, the Americans, the Russians, and especially the Jews are so stupid as to portray the Gestapo as something so incredibly powerful."]
Here, Himmler ridicules the propaganda narratives said about Germany which frames them as a powerful monstrosity.
These are Himmler's
only mentions of Jews in the entire speech you provided. Should I accuse you of "BS", then, bombsaway?
Also, I found the correct
24 May 1944 speech at Sonthofen, it is included in this large .rar file which contains many of Himmler's speeches around this time:
https://archive.org/download/heinrich_h ... rchive.rar
I also found my notes of where
key audio is missing from these speeches. For this 24 May speech, it cuts off after this section:
Seit fünf Jahren ist unsere Wehrmacht die Wehrkraft unseres Volkes im Kampf. Wir wissen, und Sie wissen das als berufendste Führer dieser Wehrmacht, zulang, zu Wasser und in der Luft, am allerbesten. Wir haben aber hinter uns, im Rücken von uns, ein Volk, das unsagbar anständig ist.
Es ist so anständig, dass wir alle als Soldaten mit den von uns geführten Männern uns bemühen müssen, wirklich manchmal uns bemühen müssen. Die Größe des Erdvermutens.
The audio cuts off for ~5-10 minutes and then the resumes with:
Und die wurde, den Befehl und der verstandene Mäßingerkenntnis folgend, kompromisslos gelöst.
Ich glaube, meine Herren, dass Sie mich so weit kennen, dass ich kein blutrünstiger Mensch bin und kein Mann, der irgendwie an etwas harten Wasser tun muss, Freude oder Spaß hat. Ich habe aber anders teils so gute Nerven und ein so großes Pflichtbewusstsein, das darf ich für mich in Anspruch nehmen, dass ich dann, wenn ich eine Sache erkenne und als notwendig erkenne, kompromisslos durchführe.
Ich habe mich nicht für berechtigt gehalten - das betrifft nämlich jüdischen Frauen und Kinder - in den Kindern, die Rächer groß werden zu lassen, die dann unsere Freude und unsere Enkel umbringen, das hätte ich der Feige gehalten. Folglich wurde die Frage kompromisslos gelöst.
Zur Zeit allerdings, es ist einartig in diesem Krieg, führen wir zunächst 100 später noch einmal 100.000 männlicher Juden aus Ungarn in Konfrontationslage ein, mit denen wir unterirdische Fabriken bauen.
Sie kommen aber von denen kommt aber nicht einer irgendwie in das Gesichtsfeld des deutschen Volkes.
Eine Überzeugung aber habe ich: Wenn wir heute im Generalgouvernement mal bloß die Judenfrage nicht gelöst hätten, soll ein Ghetto in Lublin, das riesen Ghetto mit 500.000 Menschen in Warsaw, dessen Bereinigung, meine Herren, uns fünf Wochen Straßenkampf gekostet hat. Vor im vorigen Jahr, mit Panzerwagen und mit allem, in denen wir rund 700 Häuserbunker gestürmt haben, inmitten in dem abgezäunten Ghetto.
Wenn wir diese Ghettoes nicht bereinigt hätten, dann allerdings wurde ich für die im Osten des Generalgouvernement aufgebaute Front schwarze. Es ist verständlich, haben wir Banden. Darauf, sie hat sie auch. Da wollen wir uns gar nicht schön unangenehm, bei dem sind sie genau so unangenehm. Da darf man gar nicht, man muss es ernst nehmen und darf es nicht tragisch nehmen.
Wenn man Mut hat, zugreift, besonnen und vernünftig zugreift, indem man es nämlich vorher vorbereitet, dann können Banden niemals eine ausschlaggebende Gefahr sein. Sie entscheiden niemals einen Krieg.
The gap between these two statements comes about to about
5 pages worth of text in the written transcript (I was going through the Bundesarchiv and viewing the transcripts at the time I made these notes). That is
a lot of context gone missing from the actual audio, which is of critical importance to discern what Himmler meant, or insofar as which Jews were targeted (partisans and their networks vs. every Jew in Europe). Here is the translation of the above, with the gap noted:
For five years, our armed forces have been the fighting force of our people. We know, and you know this better than anyone else, as the most appointed leaders of this armed force, on land, at sea and in the air. But behind us, at our back, we have a people that is unspeakably decent.
It is so decent that we, as soldiers, together with the men we lead, must all make an effort, and sometimes we really have to make a considerable effort. The magnitude of the task is immense.
[...?]
And that was solved without compromise, following the order and the understanding of moderation.
I believe, gentlemen, that you know me to the extent that I am not a bloodthirsty person and not a man who somehow has to enjoy or have fun doing something hard. But in other respects I have such good nerves and such a great sense of duty, I can claim that for myself, that when I recognize a thing and recognize it as necessary, I carry it out without compromise.
I didn't think I had the right - this concerns Jewish women and children - to let the avengers grow up in the children, who then kill our children and our grandchildren, I would have thought that cowardly. Consequently, the issue was resolved without compromise.
At the moment, however, it is unique in this war, we first bring in 100, and later another 100,000 male Jews from Hungary in a confrontational situation, with whom we build underground factories.
But not a single one of them comes into the field of vision of the German people.
But I have one conviction: if only we hadn't solved the Jewish question in the Generalgouvernement today, there would be a ghetto in Lublin, the huge ghetto with 500,000 people in Warsaw, the clearing of which, gentlemen, cost us five weeks of street fighting. Last year, with armored cars and everything, we stormed around 700 house bunkers in the middle of the fenced-off ghetto.
If we hadn't cleared these ghettos, it would have been black for the front built up in the east of the Generalgouvernement. It is understandable, we have gangs. They have them too. We don't want to be unpleasant, they are just as unpleasant. You can't, you have to take it seriously and not take it tragically.
If you have courage, take action, take action prudently and sensibly by preparing in advance, then gangs can never be a decisive danger. They never decide a war.
---
We have the exact same problem in the
21 June 1944 speech at Sonthofen. Here is the only audio I have been able to find of this speech; it is only an excerpt but it is of the most 'incriminating' segment:
https://archive.org/download/19440621He ... macht3m03s
Here is a complete transcript:
"Eine andere große Frage war noch notwendig, dass sie gelöst wurde. Es war dies die furchtbarste Aufgabe und der furchtbarste Auftrag, den eine Organisation bekommen konnte. Der Auftrag, die Judenfrage zu lösen.
Ich darf auch hier in diesem Kreis wieder in aller Offenheit mit ein paar Sätzen das sagen. Es ist gut, dass wir die Härte hatten, die Juden in unserem Bereich auszurotten. Frage Sie nicht, wie schwer das war.
Sollten haben Sie als Soldaten, möchte fast sagen, ein Verständnis dafür, wie schwer ein solcher Befehl durchzuführen ist. Haben Sie aber auch, bei krettischer Prüfung, nur als Soldaten für Deutschland denkend, den logischen Schluss, das ist notwendig war, denn allein der Bombenkrieg wäre nicht durchzuhalten gewesen, wenn die das jüdische Volk doch in den Städten gehabt hätte.
Ich habe auch eine Überzeugung, die Front bei Lemberg im Generalgouvernement bereicht zu halten gewesen, wenn die großen Ghettoes in Lemberg, in Krakau, in Lublien und in Warschau noch da gewesen wären. Der Zeitpunkt, zu dem wir das letzte große Ghetto in Warschau nennen, durch die Zahl mit über 500 .000 Juden, in fünf Wochen Straßenkämpfen ausgeräumt haben.
Im Sommer 1943 war gerade der letzte Zeitpunkt.
[...?]
Ebenso will ich, wie ich auch gleich einen Gedanken, der sicherlich gedacht wird, gleich beantworten will. Der Gedanke, der nämlich da hingegen das geht, und sagt, ja, wissen Sie, dass sie die erwachsenen Juden umbringt, das verstehe ich völlig. Aber wie können Sie Frauen und Kinder? Da muss ich Ihnen etwas sagen. Die Kinder werden eines Tages groß werden. Wollen wir so unanständig sein, dass wir sagen, nein, nein, nein, das sind wir zu schwach dazu? Aber unsere Kinder, die können ja dann mit denen mal sich abgeben. Und die sollen das auch mal auskämpfen. Dass dann dieser jüdische Hass groß gewordener, kleiner, heute kleiner und später groß gewordener Recher sich an unseren Kindern und Enkeln vergreift, dass sie noch einmal das Problem zu lösen haben.
Dann habe in einer Zeit, wenn kein Adolf Hitler mehr lebt. Nein, das können wir nicht verantworten. Das wäre feig gewesen und deswegen haben wir eine klare Lösung vorgezogen, so schwer wie sie war."
Once again, important context just before the 'incriminating' portion is missing. Here it is, translated:
Another big question still needed to be solved. It was the most terrible task and the most terrible assignment an organization could receive. The task of solving the Jewish question.
I can say this again here in this circle in all openness with a few sentences. It is good that we had the toughness to eradicate the Jews in our area. Don't ask me how difficult it was.
As soldiers, you should almost have an understanding of how difficult it is to carry out such an order. But do you also have the logical conclusion, thinking only as soldiers for Germany, that it was necessary, because the bombing war alone could not have been sustained if they had had the Jewish people in the cities?
I am also convinced that the front near Lemberg in the Generalgouvernement could have been held if the large ghettos in Lemberg, Krakow, Lublin and Warsaw had still been there. The time at which we call the last large ghetto in Warsaw, by the number of over 500,000 Jews, was cleared out in five weeks of street fighting.
The summer of 1943 was the last time.
[...?]
I would also like to answer a thought that is certainly being considered. The thought that goes against that and says, yes, you know, that they killed the adult Jews, I completely understand that. But how can you women and children? I have to tell you something. The children will grow up one day. Do we want to be so indecent that we say, no, no, no, we're too weak for that? But our children, they can deal with them. And they should fight it out. That this Jewish hatred of those who have grown up, those who are smaller today and those who will grow up later will then attack our children and grandchildren, that they will have to solve the problem once again.
Then at a time when Adolf Hitler is no longer alive. No, we can't take responsibility for that. That would have been cowardly and that's why we preferred a clear solution, as difficult as it was.
I have identified the section of the
written transcript that corresponds to this audio gap, here is a translation of it, for reference:
The ghettos, as closed as they may have been, were the centers of every partisan and gang movement. They were also the poisoning horde for the morale of the stage. We no longer used the word "stage" in this war. I believe that this word should be used more often, that rear organizations, which are necessary at the moment when they puff themselves up, suffocate in their well-being and then behave like pigs during a retreat or a withdrawal movement, should be called something they don't like to hear. That is the stage. Unfortunately, I have been able to follow many examples - I would like to speak here only of my own area, of the SS and police - where men who had to guard ghettos sooner or later, if they were not entirely of good character, allowed themselves to be bribed, given money, got involved with seductive and seductive Jewish women and were then blackmailed. In every case, because all the men were warned beforehand, I had a merciless judgment held. Thank God they were only isolated cases. - I told all my men: firstly, we have orders and secondly, our conscience dictates that we carry out this harsh purge. If it is difficult for us, then let us think of the children who died before they even came to life as a result of this bombing terror, which was ultimately organized by the Jews. We are entitled to do so, we must.
Obviously, this is a crucial portion of the speech and for it to be missing as audio is problematic.
---
As for the earlier,
5 May 1944 Sonthofen speech, I have only found a 5-minute clip of this speech but it contains nothing at all about Jews or their treatment.
Altogether, this means we have 2/3 of the Sonthofen speeches having major gaps right at the lead-in to the relevant portion of each speech (regarding Jewish/child executions), and for the remaining 1/3 we have no audio of this portion yet published (hence, unconfirmed at best).
More information about all of Himmler's speeches is here:
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaste ... eeches.htm
