Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

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pilgrimofdark
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by pilgrimofdark »

borjastick wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2024 10:11 am Could a revisionist here ( I ask because I want the truth) tell me more about the accommodation etc at the Treblinka 1 work camp? What facilities were there? Such as sleeping quarters, numbers there at the peak periods, food and shower blocks etc.
I was also wondering about this.

This is the most complete map I can find of the T-I and surrounding areas. The source is a Treblinka Museum exhibition catalog from 2023, Kobiety w Karnym Obozie Pracy Treblinka I ("Women in the Treblinka I Forced Labor Camp").

If there was a delousing chamber building, it should be able to be placed on this map.

Image

No delousing chamber is indicated, but some Buildings of Unknown Purpose (BOUP, nice acronym). Most look to be very small, so only a few could be proposed as a T-I delousing chamber.
  • Has anyone informed the Treblinka Museum that a BOUP's purpose can be defined and situated on their map?
  • Which BOUP exactly is being proposed for the delousing facility, so the museum can confirm?
  • When should we expect the museum to confirm?
  • Will they be investigating the BOUP for remnants of plumbing or other equipment?
  • If the Treblinka Museum agrees with the proposed revision, can we expect them to update the map signage at the site and online accordingly?
Looks like there were three entrances to T-I. Maybe everyone had to come back in through a single entrance for delousing?

Did any T-I workers/inmates report smelling the "faint scent of chlorine" or something similar from a building?

Otherwise, we seem to have several BOUPs and a DCOUCAL (Delousing Chamber of Unknown Camp and Location, poor acronym).
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Wetzelrad
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by Wetzelrad »

The direction this debate has gone is goofy. PrudentRegret has already made a very persuasive case that TII is the described expansion. He easily rebutted the only attempted refutation of that. Why are we entertaining it further? Even so...
pilgrimofdark wrote: Wed Jan 21, 2026 3:28 pm No delousing chamber is indicated, but some Buildings of Unknown Purpose (BOUP, nice acronym). Most look to be very small, so only a few could be proposed as a T-I delousing chamber.
Regarding size, the building we're looking for is an "Entlausungsbaracke". If it's anything like Birkenau's Entlausungsbaracke (BW 5a and 5b), it should be large and impossible to miss. Even ignoring that comparison, barracks are not typically small buildings. We should expect it to be similar in size to other buildings labelled as barracks in the camp. The BOUPs 52 and 53 are possible if unlikely candidates.

The best way to solve this problem might be to return to the budgetary documents. In short, they describe an "expansion" of the camp, which implies a new physical space, and the construction of four new prisoner's accomodation barracks, a new kitchen, a new infirmary, and the delousing chamber. This very easily describes Treblinka II. It makes no sense for Treblinka I, especially because why would it need two kitchens or two infirmaries? Or if this was the first kitchen, why was it not built until, as SanityCheck has argued, some time in 1943?

A deeper analysis is possible here, but this is already enough. If anyone believes the expansion to Treblinka was not Treblinka II then they should show how the facilities described in these documents pertain to TI or how they can't pertain to TII.
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bombsaway
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by bombsaway »

So Eberl, a doctor from t4, had construction responsibilities in T1? Treblinka work camp?

What about the Treblinka camp PR believes was actually in Malkinia (which all the t4 staff were working at).

It's clear that you guys are the ones are goofily confused, with Stubble conflating the documents and believing Eberl literally signed off on the expansion.
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pilgrimofdark
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by pilgrimofdark »

When the fiscal year began in the GG was another open question.

According to some similar documents from the Polish archive, the 1943 fiscal year was:

April 1, 1943 -- March 31, 1944

Many of them have a cover page (like this) defining the fiscal year, but the entry containing the Treblinka budget doesn't have a similar page.

So that can help narrow down what time periods these budget documents apply to.

Thanks to ChatGPT for at least 2 wrong answers I almost posted :oops:
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bombsaway
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by bombsaway »

Wetzelrad wrote: Wed Jan 21, 2026 7:20 pm
A deeper analysis is possible here, but this is already enough. If anyone believes the expansion to Treblinka was not Treblinka II then they should show how the facilities described in these documents pertain to TI or how they can't pertain to TII.
The evidence being offered for this is that Eberl called the Treblinka camp (that hundreds of thousands were sent to, this is the one headed by T4 personell so not T1) a work camp. Most likely explanation for this is he didn't want to call it a totenlager in the document.

PR even admits that this was a separate camp, because he's trying to explain this document

"Since 22.7. a train with 5 000 Jews goes daily from Warsaw via Malkinia to Treblinka. Furthermore there is a train with 5 000 Jews going from Przemysl to Belzec twice a week. Gedob is constantly in touch with the security service in Cracow, who agrees that the transports from Warsaw via Lublin to Sobibor (near Lublin) rest as long as the conversion works on this line make transports impossible (until October 1942)"

Treblinka camp he says was in Malkinia off some street so it's not T1.

Therefore, there are two different camps labeled work camps. You can't distinguish one from the other based on that classification alone. You need more context, like Eberl's involvement. I would say that since T1 was expanding at this time, the expansion document more likely pertains to t1, as such expansion isn't evident in the case of the other treblinka camp.

It appears you guys have phenomenally confused yourselves.
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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by PrudentRegret »

The evidence being offered for this is that Eberl called the Treblinka camp (that hundreds of thousands were sent to, this is the one headed by T4 personell so not T1) a work camp.
No, he called his construction project the "expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka", in multiple documents, and these budget documents also pertain to the "expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka." And when the construction office was interviewed, they also related T-II to the "expansion of Treblinka camp."

It's also not uncommon for construction projects like this to be carried out on demand and then to end up in the budget at a later date. It is not the case that these sort of projects were only constructed in the fiscal year they are accounted for in budget documents, so the fiscal year is not conclusive evidence for the time of construction of the listed projects.

T-II was part of Arbeitslager Treblinka, because it was a Jewish work camp carrying out Operation Reinhardt- an economic operation for the utilization of Jewish property. That was the purpose of T-II. It wasn't a transit camp or an extermination camp, it was a work camp like the Pabianice sorting camp, which was also a secret Jewish work camp. The gravel operation at T-I was under the jurisdiction of the SS-WVHA just like Operation Reinhardt. If the WVHA is running the gravel operation at TI, it makes sense they will expand the camp to serve another WVHA initiative (Operation Reinhardt).

I have not said T-II was in Malkinia I said Malkinia was the "transit camp" and those deportees were not brought to T-II, but their property was brought there as part of Operation Reinhardt.

Both TI and TII were "Arbeitlsager Treblinka", it was a work camp.
Question:
“According to your previous statements, you only ever speak of the, i.e., a Treblinka camp. Are you now making a distinction between a Treblinka labor camp and a Treblinka extermination camp?”


Answer:
“According to my memory today, despite the discussions, I still only have in mind that in Treblinka only a new camp was to be set up or an already existing small camp was to be expanded. I am even sure that I did not know or assume anything more at the time.”


Note:


The available knowledge concerning the expansion of the Treblinka labor camp and the construction of the Treblinka extermination camp was discussed with the witness.


The witness then stated:


“The Treblinka camp is still one concept for me. Concrete facts that go beyond my previous statements have not come to my memory despite the discussions. For example, I do not remember hearing anything about the fact that the extermination camp was possibly set up under the direction of a commando from Lublin and with the involvement of Jewish labor commandos and guard commandos from the Treblinka labor camp.


I cannot say more with the best will in the world.”
The implication is that the debate between mainstream and revisionists has been focused on "Was it a Transit camp or an Extermination camp?" But the most likely possibility is that it was a work camp just like Eberl said, and the labor camp was created to conduct Operation Reinhardt.

The only concrete documentary reference to the function of T-II specifically identifies it as a Work Camp... That is significant evidence.

Even the Treblinka museum admits administrative overlap with the gravel operation in TI. Makes sense in the world were both are "Arbeitslager Treblinka" but makes no sense in the mainstream theory of a secret extermination camp completely independent of TI.
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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by PrudentRegret »

Documents show the gravel was invoiced from DEST- Deutsche Erd- und Steinwerke GmbH. Operation Reinhardt was also a WVHA operation carried out in both Auschwitz and General Government. Arbeitslager Treblinka was expanded to conduct Operation Reinhardt, that was T-II.
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bombsaway
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by bombsaway »

PR if im understanding correctly you believe there was a camp in malkinia called treblinka, see the document i posted, they call it treblinka, then another camp in treblinka at the gravel quarry that was expanded to process property. This was the camp the psychiatrist Eberl was involved in. There was no reinhardt associated camp at the presumed location of t2
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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by PrudentRegret »

Not sure how many times I have to repeat myself. Eberl was involved in the EXPANSION OF ARBEITSLAGER TREBLINKA, which by the way is exactly what he says in his own documents. That EXPANSION OF ARBEITSLAGER TREBLINKA pertained to the construction of the Jewish camp we all call "T-II" which was dedicated to the collection, sorting, sanitation, storage, and distribution of confiscated property under the auspice of Operation Reinhardt, a WVHA initiative. That was the purpose of the camp we all call "T-II" and was the purpose of Eberl's construction project.
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by bombsaway »

I asked the LLM about what makes an expansion within this context, given the geographic distance between t-1 and t2
When “2 km away” is reasonably an expansion

A separate site a short distance away is often best understood as an expansion if it is:

Run by the same camp administration (same command structure / reporting chain)

Staffed/guarded as part of the same camp system

Fed by the same prisoner pipeline (transports, selections, registrations, labor assignments)

Functionally integrated (e.g., one site for registration/quarantine, another for killing/forced labor, shared punishment system, shared records)

This is exactly how many major camps evolved: they became administrative hubs running multiple nearby (and later far-flung) sites—often called subcamps/satellite camps (Außenlager).

When it’s not really an expansion

It’s less accurate to call it an “expansion” if it’s:

A separately administered camp (different commandant/administration)

A site that is logistically independent (own intake, records, transports) even if close by

Built for a distinct purpose under a different authority (e.g., police prison vs SS concentration camp), even if adjacent

In that case it’s better described as a new camp (or a different camp type) located nearby.
I think the involvement of t4 personell in the other treblinka is completely missing for t1, so seems much more justified to call it a separate camp rather than expansion. Eberl calling it a work camp seems to be your only evidence for t4 involvement with t1, right?
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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by PrudentRegret »

bombsaway wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 5:34 am I think the involvement of t4 personell in the other treblinka is completely missing for t1, so seems much more justified to call it a separate camp rather than expansion. Eberl calling it a work camp seems to be your only evidence for t4 involvement with t1, right?
The involvement of T4 Personnel in TI is not completely missing, it's directly attested to by the mainstream.
pilgrimofdark wrote: Sun Jan 18, 2026 10:06 pm Sara Berger's book is by far the best one I've read on the AR camps from the mainstream perspective. She never quotes any "eyewitnesses," which makes the whole narrative less schlocky and goofy and much more coherent.

...
However, relations deteriorated when the commander of the labor camp, Theodor van Eupen, was appointed senior officer of Małkinia, including Treblinka, and demanded that Stangl be placed under his command, a demand Stangl refused to accept. In 1943, the T4 Reinhardt men in Treblinka temporarily took over the administration of the gravel pits, which were subordinate to the Deutschen Erd- und Steinwerke GmbH Auschwitz (German Earth and Stone Works GmbH Auschwitz) and where many prisoners from Treblinka I worked.

- same as quoted above, section "External networks I: Integration into the German occupation apparatus"
Carlo Mattogno was the first one AFAIK to call out the "SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka" involvement in the administration of the gravel operation with this document:

Image

This is in addition to the mainstream acknowledging that TI supplied labor and guards during the establishment of TII. So there is involvement going in both ways: resources from TI directly involved in TII and resources from TII directly involved in TI. This bidirectional involvement is admitted to and attested to by mainstream historians. This is in addition to Eberl directly identifying his project as the "Expansion of Arbeitslager Treblinka" with even the mainstream admitting that labor and guards from TI were also dedicated to that task.
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Stubble
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by Stubble »

I'm sure as gravel merchants, those T4 guys were KILLING IT...

Just for posterity, I think I will check to see if these were cooks, bus drivers, or, preprogrammed murder robots forged in the crucible of the baby killing program with gas chambers so secret even preprogrammed murder robots only heard rumors about them.
If I were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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PrudentRegret
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by PrudentRegret »

No joke, SanityCheck says that SS-Sonderkommando Treblinka just moonlighted as gravel merchants because they had run out of Jews to gas inside shower rooms. Like, they were bored so they decided to take on a second job at a different company down the street.
Last edited by PrudentRegret on Fri Jan 23, 2026 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bombsaway
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by bombsaway »

Were there separate commandants for t1 and t2 camps?
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Stubble
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Re: Treblinka Work Camp Delousing Chamber

Post by Stubble »

Is there a separate gm at the McDonald's on main and the McDonald's on Southside?
If I were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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