NSDAP not NAZI

[Hektor]

Well, in Goebbels' diaries he uses the term Nazi affectionately. He is complaining about people like Ribbentrop and Seyss-Inquart (both later hanged an Nuremberg) as not being sufficiently "Nazi."....

Those diaries were meant as private conversation. So no official formal use of language there.
The formally correct term is Nationalsozialist.... Colloquially one may use the term NAZI, but as soon as this is used in more serious discourse, it isn't any longer....

[Scott]

Colloquially one may use the term NAZI, but as soon as this is used in more serious discourse, it isn't any longer....

I think that is an overstatement.

Unfortunately, even if you ask Germans from the before-time, assuming that you can find any still alive, their opinions are tainted by the eighty or so years that have happened since ─ a completely immersive environment where Hitler is the greatest demon of all time.

Goebbels was a master of propaganda, and yet he did not regard the colloquial terminology "Nazi" in a negative fashion. This is what he truly believes, like drinking sparkling spring water or breathing fresh air from an open window.

Goebbels was truly proud of the term Nazi. I find any view to the contrary to be ahistorical and frankly bizarre. Why is this even an issue?

However, I am not the orthodox terminology police. There is nothing wrong with the term National Socialist, so there is no reason not to use it as needed, especially when and if fomality is preferred.

The important thing in my mind is not Nazi or NS in the jargon wars, but simply that National Socialism was the only non-Marxist "socialism."

Nazi (or NS if you prefer) emphasizes the "Nazi" or National aspects of Socialism, and deliberately and completely purges Marx & Engels, which is factually correct anyway.

[Hektor]

Colloquially one may use the term NAZI, but as soon as this is used in more serious discourse, it isn't any longer....

I think that is an overstatement.

Unfortunately, even if you ask Germans from the before-time, assuming that you can find any still alive, their opinions are tainted by the eighty or so years that have happened since ─ a completely immersive environment where Hitler is the greatest demon of all time.
....

A German that was soldier in World War Two would be close to 100 years or even older. Anyone that was mature in a responsible position would exceed 100 years. Even if you can find someone like this, I doubt they will be much of a conversation.


I do however still recall some Germans that indeed were grown ups in the era. And they simply didn't have those prejudices post-war Germans are so famous for. Also no political correctness. Simple people that just wanted to modestly enjoy what they worked hard for. Distanced to politics in general. Also critical on how Germany or the West developed especially after the 1960s. Now most of them didn't 'deny the Holocaust openly'... But all admitted to have heard about it only after WW2, apparently surprising to them as well. Some seemed to wonder as this was true.

With the decades Germans absorbed plenty of the reeducation dogmata, without being aware that they are exactly that. And naturally this also tainted their view on history as well. So don't expect to hear a genuine experiential German position on matters from them....

[Scott]

Yes, exactly my point. Unfortunately we can't go back to the 1930s and ask Germans whether they think that the word "Nazi" is disparaging or just informal. I don't think they felt that way, but other than the sentiments of Dr. Goebbels, who was affectionate for the term, the idea remains mostly untestable.

[Booze]

Churchill used the term Nazi to refer to Hitlerism a distinct version of National Socialism.

Can you please explain where Churchill got the word 'NAZI' from to begin with?

I can tell you, NAZI literrally means country bumpkin and idiot. It was the Jewish Communist party calling the NSDAP the word 'NAZI' as opposition and propaganda. Winston Churchill was controlled by Jews and so of course would adopt the Jewish Hate Speech word 'NAZI' instead of using the correct word NSDAP.

Because Jews started and won WW2, all historians refer to the NSDAP as the deragatory hate speech 'NAZI'. All governments around the world use the hate speech word 'NAZI'.

However, this very web site uses the word 'NAZI' in their descriptions. How can anyone take this site seriously when you all use the Jewish Hate Speech word NAZI?

I do not ever use the term Nazi in this way, and I have the same outlook on it that you do. To me it would be like watching a news report or documentary and hearing about the Germans "gassing million of kikes". We know that this would cause great outrage.
But the holocaust provides license for these one sided ground rules.

[fireofice]

I wanted to provide more examples here of Nazis calling themselves Nazis.

From David Irving's Hitler's War:

In April 1938 Hitler would muse out loud to Reinhard Spitzy, Ribbentrop’s private secretary: ‘We have backed the wrong horse in Spain. We would have done better to back the Republicans. They represent the people. We could always have converted these socialists into good National Socialists later. The people around Franco are all reactionary clerics, aristocrats, and moneybags - they’ve nothing in common with us Nazis at all!’

In this speech Himmler gave on December 15, 1943, you can hear Himmler use the term "Nazis" around the 50:30 mark.



Martin Bormann, letter to Gerda Bormann dated 1944-10-7

bormann nazi.jpg (342.85 KiB) Viewed 2991 times

Letters from Rudolf Hess using the term:

hess nazi.jpg (101.99 KiB) Viewed 2991 times

hess nazi 2.jpg (132.98 KiB) Viewed 2991 times

A Nazi flier from 1932:

nazi flier.jpg (303.87 KiB) Viewed 2991 times

[Hektor]

I wanted to provide more examples here of Nazis calling themselves Nazis.

From David Irving's Hitler's War:

In April 1938 Hitler would muse out loud to Reinhard Spitzy, Ribbentrop’s private secretary: ‘We have backed the wrong horse in Spain. We would have done better to back the Republicans. They represent the people. We could always have converted these socialists into good National Socialists later. The people around Franco are all reactionary clerics, aristocrats, and moneybags - they’ve nothing in common with us Nazis at all!’

In this speech Himmler gave on December 15, 1943, you can hear Himmler use the term "Nazis" around the 50:30 mark.
...

The term was used colloquially and hence it was widespread it should not be surprising that NS-figures used it occasionally as well. Himmler is sort of quoting other folks using the term. This all doesn't change a dime that the correct term is Nationalsozialist or National Socialist.

[Wahrheitssucher]

…the correct term is Nationalsozialist or National Socialist.

Yes!

[fireofice]

The term was used colloquially and hence it was widespread it should not be surprising that NS-figures used it occasionally as well. Himmler is sort of quoting other folks using the term. This all doesn't change a dime that the correct term is Nationalsozialist or National Socialist.

If it's colloquial then there's no problem with me using it in most settings where I am speaking and writing casually. That was the complaint of the original poster here. I'm not sure what you mean by "correct term". In more casual settings, National Socialist and Nazi are both "correct". In a non-casual forum, sure, National Socialist is usually preferred. However, that doesn't really apply to anywhere much today since there are no influential official National Socialist parties. Although apparently the term Nazi was "official" enough for the Nazis to put it on a building.

https://berlin.museum-digital.de/object/134186

[Hektor]

The term was used colloquially and hence it was widespread it should not be surprising that NS-figures used it occasionally as well. Himmler is sort of quoting other folks using the term. This all doesn't change a dime that the correct term is Nationalsozialist or National Socialist.

If it's colloquial then there's no problem with me using it in most settings where I am speaking and writing casually. That was the complaint of the original poster here. I'm not sure what you mean by "correct term". In more casual settings, National Socialist and Nazi are both "correct". In a non-casual forum, sure, National Socialist is usually preferred. However, that doesn't really apply to anywhere much today since there are no influential official National Socialist parties. Although it apparently the term Nazi was "official" enough for the Nazis to put it on a building.

https://berlin.museum-digital.de/object/134186

The problem is that "NAZI" is part of the fairy tale that the cartoon version of historical NS. And it reinforces this cartoon version as if that is valid history in the minds of people. That is also why those that think this cartoon version favors them in some way use that term so excessively.

[Wahrheitssucher]

The term was used colloquially and hence it was widespread it should not be surprising that NS-figures used it occasionally as well. Himmler is sort of quoting other folks using the term. This all doesn't change a dime that the correct term is Nationalsozialist or National Socialist.

If it's colloquial then there's no problem with me using it in most settings where I am speaking and writing casually. That was the complaint of the original poster here. I'm not sure what you mean by "correct term". In more casual settings, National Socialist and Nazi are both "correct". In a non-casual forum, sure, National Socialist is usually preferred. However, that doesn't really apply to anywhere much today since there are no influential official National Socialist parties. Although it apparently the term Nazi was "official" enough for the Nazis to put it on a building.

https://berlin.museum-digital.de/object/134186

The problem is that "NAZI" is part of the fairy tale that [is] the cartoon version of historical NS.
And it reinforces this cartoon version as if that is valid history in the minds of people.
That is also why those that think this cartoon version favors them in some way use that term so excessively.

Yes!

[Scott]

The term Nazi is informal but it is not wrong.

To say otherwise is letting the Jews and the Left frame the narrative, which I refuse to do.

[Wahrheitssucher]

The term Nazi is informal but it is not wrong.

To say otherwise is letting the Jews and the Left frame the narrative, which I refuse to do.

Complete OPPOSITE of the truth!

It is JOOISH collectives who want to simplify WW2 into a ‘just war’ against evil, personified by what they call ‘Nazis’.
They do not want the gullible masses to understand that ‘nationalism’ and ‘socialism’ and wanting to own and control your own country are perfectly normal and commendable ideas.
They want the gullible masses to think ‘national socialism’ is intrinsically evil and should be called ‘nazi’ and should evermore be associated with immense wickedness, racism and ANTI-SEMITISM!
THAT is what the holyH ‘religion’ is also about: it is the main tool in promoting this false history.

And Scott is serving that false depiction by spreading this complete opposite of reality.

[Scott]

The Joos?

Nonsense. But hey, there is nothing wrong with the term National Socialist either, so feel free to use that version if you prefer.

[Wahrheitssucher]

The term Nazi is informal but it is not wrong.

To say otherwise is letting the Jews and the Left frame the narrative, which I refuse to do.

Complete OPPOSITE of the truth!

It is JOOISH collectives who want to simplify WW2 into a ‘just war’ against evil, personified by what they call ‘Nazis’.
They do not want the gullible masses to understand that ‘nationalism’ and ‘socialism’ and wanting to own and control your own country are perfectly normal and commendable ideas.
They want the gullible masses to think ‘national socialism’ is intrinsically evil and should be called ‘nazi’ and should evermore be associated with immense wickedness, racism and ANTI-SEMITISM!
THAT is what the holyH ‘religion’ is also about: it is the main tool in promoting this false history.

And Scott is serving that false depiction by spreading this complete opposite of reality.

The Joos?

No! Definitely not “the jooze”.

You are repeatedly misrepresenting the reality.
And here, you are pretending it was I who did it.

I wrote it was “jooish collectives” who have promoted the term ‘Nazi’ as a personification of evil.
I did NOT write that ‘the Jooze’ did that.

It very obviously can not be every single jewish person on the planet doing ANYTHING.
To suggest so is both stupid and racist.

But there are collectives of people who operate in co-ordination, for certain perceived self-interests, that are connected to their mutual self-identification as being ‘jewish’.

Nonsense. But hey, there is nothing wrong with the term National Socialist either…

It isn’t socialism that has been presented as a problem by these jooish collectives — it is Nationalism.
And especially any form of Nationalism that recognises that there is a class of jewry who:
- have no loyalty to their domicile country;
- only have loyalty to other jooze;
- therefore operate in a way that can fairly be regarded as parasitical;
- and operate in that way via advantages accrued from belonging to an international collective of like-minded jewry.

Adolf Hitler recognised these aspects and determined to combat them.
He very nearly succeeded.
Which is why he has been portayed as the ultimate icon of wickedness and his political ideology as the personification of evil encapsulated for the mindless minions with the term ‘Nazi’.