The Genocide Question

[Joe Splink]

I live in St. Pete, Fl. It's bigger than a town but not much of a city, on the Pinellas peninsula, the town occupies 144 sq. mi., so it's about 12 m. by 12 m. The population's about 300,000. Pinellas county is the most densly populated in FL with about 1,000,000 people in 274 sq. mi. St. Pete is for the most part covered with houses. If you start in downtown, you can get to the edge of the city in any direction on city streets in about 20 minutes.

Gaza is also about 140 sq. mi. The estimates of the number of bombs dropped on Gaza vary from 70,000 to 200,000 tonnes. The low estimate is 500 tons of bombs for every square mi. It's remarkable to me that not everyone was killed. 70,000 tonnes of bombs is equivalent to 6 Hiroshima nuclear bombs.

Deepseek: Based on available data, the intensity of the bombing in Gaza is historically unprecedented in several key aspects, particularly the tonnage of explosives dropped over such a small, densely populated area in a short period.

So, this quibbling about 'genocide' is nonsense. This was the most deliberate and obvious attempted genocide in history.

[Stubble]

Joe, the argument here seems to be siege vs genocide. If it was truly a genocide, it would be over by now. As you say, ordinance expended has been sufficient if the death of everyone there was the aim.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Gaza is also about 140 sq. mi. The estimates of the number of bombs dropped on Gaza vary from 70,000 to 200,000 tonnes. The low estimate is 500 tons of bombs for every square mi. It's remarkable to me that not everyone was killed. 70,000 tonnes of bombs is equivalent to 6 Hiroshima nuclear bombs.

Deepseek: Based on available data, the intensity of the bombing in Gaza is historically unprecedented in several key aspects, particularly the tonnage of explosives dropped over such a small, densely populated area in a short period.

So, this quibbling about 'genocide' is nonsense. This was the most deliberate and obvious attempted genocide in history.

Fortunately, we all know from the so-called "best documented genocide in history" that an allegedly obvious thing is not always what it seems at first glance...

The Hiroshima-bomb parallel doesn't take into account the time factor. The energy released by 6 nuclear bombs in 15 milliseconds doesn't cause the same kind of damages as the energy released by the equivalent of 6 nuclear bombs in 15 months.

As a side note, the Allied bombings of German cities during WW2 were equivalent to dropping over 300 atomic bombs plus 500,000 tons of high explosive and incendiary bombs.



What the Israelis did in Gaza is what the Allies of WW2 used to call dehousing, "the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale," not genocide. And guess who will have to solve this refugee problem by opening their doors once again to a new wave of mass immigration in the next stage of this Zionist operation of ethnic cleansing ?

[Joe Splink]

the intensity of the bombing in Gaza is historically unprecedented in several key aspects, particularly the tonnage of explosives dropped over such a small, densely populated area in a short period.

1st month - 20,000–25,000+ tonnes ~ 180 tonnes/sq. mi.

2nd month - 15,000-20,000 tonnes~ 180 tonnes/sq. mi.

months 1-5 - 70,000 tonnes ~ 500 tonnes/sq. mi.
...
Grok:
First Month (approx. Oct 7 – Nov 7, 2023)

~4,000 tonnes in the first week alone (by Oct 12), according to the Israeli Air Force (6,000 bombs).
By early November (~3–4 weeks in): Estimates range from 20,000–25,000+ tonnes.
Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor reported ~25,000 tonnes by early November (around Nov 2–9).
Other analyses put it around 20,000 tonnes by mid-November, based on strike data and average bomb weights.

The first month saw the highest intensity, with heavy use of large 1,000- and 2,000-pound bombs.

Second Month (approx. Nov 7 – Dec 7, 2023)

By late November (around Nov 26): Cumulative estimates reached ~40,000 tonnes since Oct 7.
This suggests the second month added roughly 15,000–20,000 tonnes

Cumulative totals later climbed to 70,000+ tonnes by April 2024 and 85,000+ by late 2024.

Well then, what's the kill radius of a 1 tonne conventional bomb?

Up to 800 meters Severe injury, collapsed buildings, and concussive effects possible (but not guaranteed kill).

Severe injury area = pi*r2 = .6 sq. mi. So by dropping 180 tonnes of bombs on a 1 sq. mi. area in the 1st month that's enough to kill or severely injure everyone in the area 90 times.

[Stubble]

Joe, that's absolutely correct, and yet, there are living breathing people there being 'dehoused' so the area can be 'depopulated'. I suppose you can call that genocide as people are expected to be displaced. To me, it looks like a cat playing with a mouse. They are actually killing the population quite slowly with small arms or by direct burial live.

It is absolutely criminal and abhorrent, but, by the meaning of the term genocide when taken literally, it does not fit. It does fit with the prescribed definition only if the people are actually removed in whole, through emigration or murder.

What is happening currently is 'siege', the genocide comes later.

[Eye of Zyclone]

1st month - 20,000–25,000+ tonnes ~ 180 tonnes/sq. mi.

2nd month - 15,000-20,000 tonnes~ 180 tonnes/sq. mi.
...

31st month - 99.5% of the global Palestinian population and 96.6% of the Gaza population still alive - patently no annihilation intended, that is, no genocide. QED

yet, there are living breathing people there being 'dehoused' so the area can be 'depopulated'. I suppose you can call that genocide as people are expected to be displaced.

It is absolutely criminal and abhorrent, but, by the meaning of the term genocide when taken literally, it does not fit. It does fit with the prescribed definition only if the people are actually removed in whole, through emigration or murder.

Even if the people are removed in whole through emigration, it does not fit the definition of a genocide.
No historian, antirevisionist and revisionist alike, calls the whole de-Germanization of Eastern Europe in 1945-46 genocide.

The word "genocide" was coined by the Zionist Jew Raphael Lemkin during WW2 as a legal tool devised to make possible a prompt Jewish seizure of the Palestinians' homeland after the war. Unsurprisingly, he therefore did not include the whole expulsion of a people from a given area in the definition of the word "genocide," which would have made the implementation of the Zionist scheme illegal. Displacing people was always at the core of the Zionist enterprise. After WW1, the Zionist policy-makers made no secret of the fact that they were planning to carry out a big population transfer like the 1923 Greek-Turkish population exchange. The advocates of "The Nordau Plan" (i.e. the followers of Vladimir Jabotinsky, whose personal secretary was Benjamin Netanyahu's father) even called for the mass immigration of 1,000,000 Jews in barely one year to immediately establish a Jewish majority in Palestine.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Joe, the argument here seems to be siege vs genocide. If it was truly a genocide, it would be over by now.

W R O N G!!!

As you say, ordinance expended has been sufficient if the death of everyone there was the aim.

The word ‘genocide’ does not only apply to “the death of everyone”.

[Wahrheitssucher]

.
Quibbling about word definitions when it concerns ‘brown’ people, whilst embracing the exact same word when it concerns ‘white’ people looks like racism.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Roosevelt's genocidal plan ?



Nope. Population transfers are not genocide.

[Wahrheitssucher]

…it looks like a cat playing with a mouse.
They are actually killing the population quite slowly with small arms or by direct burial live.

It is absolutely criminal and abhorrent…

C O R R E C T !!!

by the meaning of the term genocide when taken literally, it does not fit.
It does fit with the prescribed definition only if the people are actually removed in whole, through emigration or murder.

W R O N G !!!

The ongoing, intentional, and systematic destruction of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip carried out by Israel in Gaza DEFINITELY DOES FIT THE ACCEPTED DEFINITION of a G E N O C I D E !!!!

It encompasses mass killings, deliberate starvation, infliction of serious bodily and mental harm, and prevention of births. Other acts include blockading, destroying civilian infrastructure, destroying healthcare facilities, killing healthcare workers and aid-seekers, causing mass forced displacement, committing sexual violence, and destroying educational, religious, and cultural sites.

The genocide has been recognised by a United Nations special committee and commission of inquiry, the International Association of Genocide Scholars, multiple human rights groups, state governments, numerous genocide studies and international law scholars, and other experts.

The 1948 United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as:
“any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- killing members of the group;
- causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction”.

Numerous groups and their personnel who are considered ‘experts’ in this field have pointed out that statements by Israeli political and military leaders, coupled with media rhetoric and Israel's conduct in Gaza — indicate genocidal intent and incitement against the Palestinian people in Gaza.

Genocidal intent and incitement
Israeli officials and journalists have made verbal statements that dehumanise Palestinians and incite, justify, or praise atrocities against them as a group.
Genocidal intent is also evidenced by the scale and systematic nature of actions that exceed any legitimate military objective — including the extensive targeting of children, widespread sexual violence, destruction of cultural heritage, and imposition of life-destroying conditions — together with the persistence of these practices despite awareness of their catastrophic effects.

Both a United Nations commission of inquiry and Amnesty International documented a "pattern of conduct" by Israeli authorities, concluding that genocidal intent is the "only reasonable inference" that can be drawn from the evidence.
Other organisations that have attributed genocidal intent to the actions or statements of Israeli officials include a United Nations panel and Genocide Watch.
As part of Defence for Children International – Palestine v. Biden, the historian Barry Trachtenberg said that the rhetoric used by Israeli officials underlies the consensus among genocide historians that the situation in Gaza constitutes genocide.


Palestinian corpses under rubble after genocidal bombing of the Gaza Strip by jews.

~ reference

[Eye of Zyclone]

Palestinian corpses under rubble after genocidal bombing of the Gaza Strip by jews.

~ reference

How is this different from the Holohoaxers' trick of showing horrific pics of typhus victims to "prove" the existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers ?

My drama queen detector is ringing like crazy...

[Wahrheitssucher]

Palestinian corpses under rubble after genocidal bombing of the Gaza Strip by jews.

~ reference

How is this different from the Holohoaxers' trick of showing horrific pics of typhus victims to "prove" the existence of Nazi homicidal gas chambers ?

My drama queen detector is ringing like crazy.

The “ringing” is presumably because of cognitive dissonance.

You were provided with a long, detailed text explaining the definition and application of the word ‘genocide’ as it applies to the Palestinian people.
Yet you now respond as if nothing was explained! That is avoidance and denial.

Instead you respond as if ONLY this photo was shown as evidence.
That is the logical fallacy of a ‘straw man’.

[Eye of Zyclone]

The “ringing” is presumably because of cognitive dissonance. You are in denial.

You were provided with a long, detailed text explaining the meaning, definition and application of the word ‘genocide’ as it applies to the Palestinian people.
Yet you now respond as if nothing was explained! That is avoidance and denial.

Instead you respond as if ONLY this photo was shown as evidence.
That is the logical fallacy of a ‘straw man’.

No, your comment was roughly a repetition of what you had already said before. Already replied to it. Not my fault that you fail to understand what the words "intent to destroy a people" actually mean. And you ignored big portions of my comments that were adressed to you and Joe, Mr. Avoidance and Denial.

[borjastick]

The use of the word 'genocide' is fraught with pitfalls and sidetracks. It is a technical definition of a certain series of events and outcomes and as such is argued against, successfully, by governments and the claimed perpetrators.

In common parlance of course what israel, that shitty little country that most on this planet now hate, is doing is of course genocide but when the word is used in media arguments or on banners at protest marches they argue the technical definition of it just to play the semantics game and throw the accuser off the track. It works too.

Was what happened in Rwanda genocide?

I have seen arguments by the Yid brigades that they are merely defending themselves against aggressors who have for decades attacked, bombed, killed yids in that shitty little country, and thus they cannot been seen as an aggressor as only aggressors commit genocide. You see how this works now...

[Joe Splink]

Well, let's see if we can figure out the Jews' intent. -



If you still need to have it spelled out ....