Contemporary Zionism Is Not Judaism

[Travis]

Too often today the cause of political Zionism is equated with Judaism. Yet, there are many Hebrew Israelites who oppose the establishment of a "two-state solution" in the Middle East through armed military conflict.

It must be understood that Zionism is not the same thing as Judaism. Indeed, the argument could be made that Judaism is naturally opposed to the zionist movement we are seeing today.

Western governments of today seem to deliberately conflate the two, as though to be against the zionist movement is inherently anti-semitic. Anyone who criticizes Israel or the war in the Middle east is immediately called anti-semitic and suspect in the eyes of law enforcement agencies.

This has been done deliberately. Where in Western Governments is anti-zionism tolerated? Answer: nowhere. And that is because Western Civilization has been infiltrated by political zionism which is bankrupting our countries in order to fund a never-ending war in the Middle East.

[Archie]

They are not identical terms. (Who said they were?) Some Jews are not Zionists (or at least claim they aren't). And some Zionists aren't Jews. There is not perfect overlap in the Venn diagram, but the overlap is enough that it should not be surprising that people associate the two. Imo, it is absurd to say "the argument could be made that Judaism is naturally opposed to the zionist movement." That's just silly.

Here are some common definitions of Zionism:
-a worldwide Jewish movement that resulted in the establishment and development of the state of Israel and that now supports the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland.

-a policy or movement for Jews to return to Palestine from the Diaspora

If the question is whether Jews, by and large, support the state of Israel, the answer is certainly yes, to varying degrees. In its most extreme form (the second definition), Zionism would demand that all Jews relocate to Zion, but I don't think that has ever been that common a position. I think most Jews like having a combo Zionist state along with the Diaspora/"International Jewry." Jewish power would be considerably diminished if they were to all move to Israel. Interestingly, some anti-Semites would count as Zionists under the second definition.

Regarding the question of whether Jews support Israel, common sense would strongly suggest that they do. How the hell was Israel established if Jews didn't want it? That was NOT an easy thing to pull off, I might add. The foreign policy establishments in the Britain and America generally thought it was a ridiculous and unworkable proposal. Around half of the world's Jews live in Israel, so obviously a lot of them wanted it. And even today we see that the Israel lobby totally dominates the US Congress (see Walt & Mearsheimer's classic as well as many others). How is such dominance possible if Jews are against Israel? It isn't and they aren't. Jews support Israel and they spend a lot of money buying off congress on behalf of Israel.

This is further confirmed by surveys of Jews, if you read them carefully.

https://www.inss.org.il/social_media/jf ... -zionists/

The headline there claims only 37% of American Jews identify as Zionists. But this is purely labeling.

37% - "Zionist"
8% - "Non-Zionist"
7% - "Anti-Zionist"
48% - Something else

Only 15% claim to be non-Zionist. The 48% are really just shy Zionists. They don't want to embrace that label because the term has a very bad reputation that has been well earned, particularly in light of the catastrophe in Gaza. According to the same survey,

71% - "felt an emotional connection to Israel"
88% - "believed Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state"

And there you go. A full 88% believe Israel should exist as an ethnostate.

And I will just add that many Jewish "anti-Zionists" are often working an angle (or are just trying not to look like outrageous hypocrites). You can't necessarily take what they say at face value. These Jewish anti-Zionists seem amazingly ineffective compared to the pro-Israel Jews. Funny how that works.

[Travis]

There are those who support Judaism but not the Zionist movement we are seeing in the Middle East. I think many people oppose political Zionism but are too afraid to say anything about it ... if only they could see how much it is costing the average taxpayer maybe they wouldn't be so complicit. The problem is that anti-zionism is treated as a crime in countries which financially (and militarily) contribute to the establishment of the zionist state.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Of course political Zionism is Judaism !! Together with the promised & preplanned world domination by Hashem's Chosen people, the return of the Jewish people to the so-called Holy Land is at the core of Jewish eschatology (i.e. Jewry's end-times "prophecies" and agenda) ! A few minor disagreements about whether or not Theodor Herzl was a precursor of Jewry's long-awaited Omni-King Moshiach can't change that...

From the co-founder of the World Zionist Organization himself :

[Travis]

There are those who have co-opted the Zionist cause and are using it under the guise of fulfilling prophecy. In actuality, it is being done deceptively in order to construct an anti-Christian NWO. The six-pointed star, for example, is not the Star of David. It too has been falsified. Israel has not traditionally endorsed such a symbol.

We, as British subjects, share a common ancestor within the nation of Israel. Literally, we are historical Israel.

I say it again: the Zionist movement we are seeing today does not represent the interests of Israel.

[Eye of Zyclone]

We, as British subjects, share a common ancestor within the nation of Israel. Literally, we are historical Israel.

Believing this kind of bollock makes Anglos and their American cousins part of the Zio-Globalist problem if I'm asked...

[Stubble]

I've always found the Anglo-Isrealism curious.

I'm, aware of it, but, it's still strange to me. It's 1 step removed from the eastern European jews are real jews schtick.

I am unsurprisingly with EoZ on this one. While Jesus wasn't a 'genetic jew' from the '7 eves', he wasn't an Englishman either. He was, if 'the word' is to be believed, from Galilee, Nazareth specifically. Recorded places in the Levant. Specific recorded places.

If somebody wants to give me the 'Good News' of Anglo-Israelism, I'll listen.

[HansHill]

There are those who support Judaism but not the Zionist movement we are seeing in the Middle East.

What does "support Judaism" mean exactly? How does one support a religion in this context?

[Wahrheitssucher]

Jesus wasn't a 'genetic jew' [but] he wasn't an Englishman either. He was, if 'the word' is to be believed, from Galilee, Nazareth specifically.

No place called ‘Nazareth’ existed on any map until centuries after the life of the son of the Hebrew tradesman from Galilee.
So he wasn’t from Nazareth! He was a ‘Nazorean’.
So he wasn’t a jude from Judea.
And he wasn’t a guy from anywhere called Nazareth.

In other words our whole western society believes and is predicated upon some rather huge deceits and delusions.

The holyhoax is one rather huge, all-encompassing one.
Jesus’s identity is another.
The other that a racist land-theft in the levant by europeans is another.
And that last one under the six-pointed star of Moloch is perhaps the most sinister and dangerous one that has caused more suffering and sinful action than any other.

[Stubble]

As I said 'if 'the word' is to be believed'.

Part of the contention with him and the Pharisees, as i have come to understand, was that he was from a line of 'converts', not a genetic 'jew', 'hebrew' 'whatever'.

Now, I'm no theologian, and, I'm not even a Christian, but, unless I am mistaken, that is the long and the short of it.

[Wahrheitssucher]

Part of the contention with him and the Pharisees, as i have come to understand, was that he was from a line of 'converts', not a genetic 'jew', 'hebrew' 'whatever'.
…unless I am mistaken, that is the long and the short of it.

No that is incorrect, Mr.S.
He was genetically a Hebrew of which there were numerous ‘tribes’.
E.g. two of the ‘gospels’ (Gospel of Matthew and Gospel of Luke) make a big deal of claiming his ancestry and/or genealogy went back to the hebrew King David and then back on to their nomadic patriarch Abraham.

All those Hebrew ‘tribes’ believed they were Yahweh’s chosen peeps.

In his lifetime there were four main theological groups amongst these Hebrew tribes:
the Samaritans;
the pharisees;
the saducees;
the essenes*.

Yeheshua bar Joseph (Jesus) was an Essene.

The difference between him and the Pharisees and Sadducees was theological/ideological.

The essenes were vegetarians and thought the money-making business of money-changing to buy ‘unblemished’ animals in the temple compound for ritualistic blood sacrifices was an abomination.
The priestly class and the whole population of Jerusalem profited from that slaughter and the trade that went with pilgrims coming to Jerusalem to do it, so they were incensed when JC drove those mercenaries out of the temple with a whip and condemned their actions. Also they were confronted by the fact that he chose to come to Jerusalem and enter it very conspicuously by posing as their long-awaited Messiah (that was the symbolism behind why he rode in on a donkey and why Essene people lay palm leaves down in front of him = that mimiced prophecy).
He posed as the ‘King of the Hebrews’ (literal meaning of term ‘messiah’= royally ‘anointed’) AND made this protest on their most profitable weekend of mass-slaughter of the year (passover) which was presumably intentional: i.e. maximum impact and notoriety!
THAT is why they conspired to kill him. He’d attacked their religious enterprise… their purses.

It’s gone down in western mentality as an attack against religious money-making.
It was actually the first recorded animal’s rights protest.

And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew their tables. And he said to them that sold doves: “Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise”.
— John 2:15–16,

He more likely said: “ Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of money-making blood-rituals and cruel slaughter”.

*N.B. The Essenes* are the only group of the four above listed theological categories who are never mentioned in the new testament texts. That’s because the earliest ‘christians’ WERE Essenes.

[Stubble]

Well, now I have some new stuff to look at. I'll do that later, it is definitely a 'back burner' issue. I don't put study of martyrs of jewish mystery cults very high on my priority list, and, I thought I had this one hammered out already, it being a very famous case. I'll seek to be 'less wrong' always, in an effort to seek the 'noble aim', but, that isn't gling to be happening today.

Thanks Mr Seeker. I learned something today.