Comments on other threads.

[Eye of Zyclone]

You cannot produce any evidence the gas chambers inside the Kremas were used to delouse clothing and the Rudolf and Leuchter Reports both dispute that happened, due to the low HCN residues, when compared to known delousing chambers.

I don't know if you're actually an idiot or just playing it dumb,
but Carlo Mattogno didn't say that those emergency delousing facilities were actually built and that the project ever came into fruition.
He said that those facilities were only contemplated and discussed for a while until the project was finally dropped
because large delousing facilities like the Zentralsauna had been completed and put into operation elsewhere in the meantime.

Mattogno spends a lot of time telling us what the Kremas were not used for, 1943-4, which is an odd approach to history. That he cannot evidence what they were used for, means he has failed at the basic task of any historian. You will never convince me that there were no gas chambers, until you produce corroborating evidence to prove what those buildings were used for.

Mattogno debunked the allegation that Pressac's so-called "criminal traces" proved that the morgues of the crematoria were turned into homicidal gas chambers, which left the Birkenau gassing story without the slightest documentary evidence of its veracity. This brings us back to the principle that an atrocity story is not true until proven false, but that an atrocity story is false until proven true with solid evidence, which is what the Birkenau gassing story lacks.

Jews starved because the staff decided to stop feeding them. They died from typhus, because the staff stopped treating them. That cannot be blamed on Allied bombing.

The assertion that one could possibly feed and delouse numerous people with obliterated supply lines is complete nonsense. The proudly-proclaimed & zealously-implemented Allied obliteration-bombing policy was, of course, largely responsible for that situation, as the Red Cross complained.

Not to mention the boundless ridiculousness of the theory that the Nazis went to great lengths to evacuate many forced laborers westward through devastated lands only to starve them and leave great food for Allied atrocity propaganda behind...

SS camp staff chose to starve Jews and not treat typhus victims. If supply lines were completely obliterated, how come the staff and non_Jewish prisoners did not starve?

They didn't starve more than the Jewish prisoners did. Everyone starved to some extent because of the hardships of WW2, but the Jewish prisoners were not starved to death as you claim on and on without a proof. The horrific images you refer to in order to "prove" this allegation are pictures of typhus victims, not pictures of starvation victims.

[Nessie]

I don't know if you're actually an idiot or just playing it dumb,
but Carlo Mattogno didn't say that those emergency delousing facilities were actually built and that the project ever came into fruition.
He said that those facilities were only contemplated and discussed for a while until the project was finally dropped
because large delousing facilities like the Zentralsauna had been completed and put into operation elsewhere in the meantime.

Mattogno spends a lot of time telling us what the Kremas were not used for, 1943-4, which is an odd approach to history. That he cannot evidence what they were used for, means he has failed at the basic task of any historian. You will never convince me that there were no gas chambers, until you produce corroborating evidence to prove what those buildings were used for.

Mattogno debunked the allegation that Pressac's so-called "criminal traces" proved that the morgues of the crematoria were turned into homicidal gas chambers, which left the Birkenau gassing story without the slightest documentary evidence of its veracity. This brings us back to the principle that an atrocity story is not true until proven false, but that an atrocity story is false until proven true with solid evidence, which is what the Birkenau gassing story lacks.

Mattogno's methodology is flawed. For example, he thinks that finding documents that do not pertain to the operation of the Kremas, that reference special actions that are evidenced not to involve gassing, is somehow evidence that special actions at the Kremas, were not gassings. That is a non sequitur. He also thinks that because he cannot work out how the ovens could have worked, based on limited records to do with coke, that is evidence to prove there were no mass cremations. That is the argument from incredulity.

The actual principle to do with claims and proof is that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant. When Mattogno claims that gassings are a hoax, the burden of proof is on him. His supposed debunking of the documentary evidence is merely opinion and his failure to prove what did happen means his opinion can be rejected.

The assertion that one could possibly feed and delouse numerous people with obliterated supply lines is complete nonsense. The proudly-proclaimed & zealously-implemented Allied obliteration-bombing policy was, of course, largely responsible for that situation, as the Red Cross complained.

Not to mention the boundless ridiculousness of the theory that the Nazis went to great lengths to evacuate many forced laborers westward through devastated lands only to starve them and leave great food for Allied atrocity propaganda behind...

SS camp staff chose to starve Jews and not treat typhus victims. If supply lines were completely obliterated, how come the staff and non_Jewish prisoners did not starve?

They didn't starve more than the Jewish prisoners did. Everyone starved to some extent because of the hardships of WW2, but the Jewish prisoners were not starved to death as you claim on and on without a proof. The horrific images you refer to in order to "prove" this allegation are pictures of typhus victims, not pictures of starvation victims.

When Bergen-Belsen was liberated, it was primarily the Jewish prisoners who died of neglect, be that lack of food or from typhus. Re-feeding syndrome killed many Jews, as they had been starved so badly. Allied bombing did not cause the deaths by typhus, the SS camp staff did.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Mattogno's methodology is flawed. For example, he thinks that finding documents that do not pertain to the operation of the Kremas, that reference special actions that are evidenced not to involve gassing, is somehow evidence that special actions at the Kremas, were not gassings. That is a non sequitur. He also thinks that because he cannot work out how the ovens could have worked, based on limited records to do with coke, that is evidence to prove there were no mass cremations. That is the argument from incredulity.

Zionist propaganda aside and Pressac's "criminal traces" debunked, there is no reason to believe that these rooms had a different function than in the other German camps, that is, morgues for the storage of dead bodies awaiting cremation, as indicated on the architectural plans of these buildings.

The actual principle to do with claims and proof is that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant. When Mattogno claims that gassings are a hoax, the burden of proof is on him. His supposed debunking of the documentary evidence is merely opinion and his failure to prove what did happen means his opinion can be rejected.

Would you say that all the anti-Zionist propaganda stories concocted and disseminated by Hamas and all the anti-Semites and anti-Zionists in the world are true unless Israel produces long, detailed alternative narratives against each of those propaganda stories or that all the anti-Zionist propaganda stories concocted and disseminated by Hamas and all the anti-Semites and anti-Zionists in the world are false unless those accusers provide unimpeachable solid evidence that their stories are true, Mr. Reverser Burden of Proof ?

When Bergen-Belsen was liberated, it was primarily the Jewish prisoners who died of neglect, be that lack of food or from typhus. Re-feeding syndrome killed many Jews, as they had been starved so badly. Allied bombing did not cause the deaths by typhus, the SS camp staff did.

Nope, many Jewish prisoners died at the Belsen camp during the last months of WW2 because most of the inmates at the Belsen camp at that time were Jewish. On the other hand, there were very few Jews in Dachau and Buchenwald, but those camps were nevertheless also littered with emaciated dead bodies when those camps were liberated by the U.S. Army. This proves that those terrible scenes of epidemic devastation were not the result of any anti-Semitic policy.



According to the orthodox/antirevisionist historian Eberhard Kolb, it was a transport of Hungarian Jews in February 1945 that brought in the lice that started a typhus epidemic in the Belsen camp. This specific transport introduced the lice that carried epidemic typhus into the camp. Due to a complete collapse of camp infrastructure (the delousing facilities in the camp had been temporarily out of order at that time) and a total lack of medical supplies, the disease quickly spiraled out of control, resulting in catastrophic mortality rates prior to the camp's liberation.

[Nessie]

Mattogno's methodology is flawed. For example, he thinks that finding documents that do not pertain to the operation of the Kremas, that reference special actions that are evidenced not to involve gassing, is somehow evidence that special actions at the Kremas, were not gassings. That is a non sequitur. He also thinks that because he cannot work out how the ovens could have worked, based on limited records to do with coke, that is evidence to prove there were no mass cremations. That is the argument from incredulity.

Zionist propaganda aside and Pressac's "criminal traces" debunked, there is no reason to believe that these rooms had a different function than in the other German camps, that is, morgues for the storage of dead bodies awaiting cremation, as indicated on the architectural plans of these buildings.

There is a very good reason to believe they were used as gas chambers. Corroborating evidence from camp staff, prisoners, documents and circumstances. That you chose to dismiss that evidence and support one of the various claims made by deniers, as to what the Kremas were used for 1943-4, is mere opinion.

The actual principle to do with claims and proof is that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant. When Mattogno claims that gassings are a hoax, the burden of proof is on him. His supposed debunking of the documentary evidence is merely opinion and his failure to prove what did happen means his opinion can be rejected.

Would you say that all the anti-Zionist propaganda stories concocted and disseminated by Hamas and all the anti-Semites and anti-Zionists in the world are true unless Israel produces long, detailed alternative narratives against each of those propaganda stories or that all the anti-Zionist propaganda stories concocted and disseminated by Hamas and all the anti-Semites and anti-Zionists in the world are false unless those accusers provide unimpeachable solid evidence that their stories are true, Mr. Reverser Burden of Proof ?

No, a Hamas claim has to be accompanied by evidence, Israel has no duty to disprove the claim. The burden of proof is on Hamas to prove the claims they make against Israel and vice versa. If Israel has evidence to disprove a Hamas claim, it makes sense to produce it, even though there is no burden of proof on them to disprove the claim.

You try to wriggle out of the burden of proof for your claim that the Holocaust gassing narrative was hoaxed. I have no duty to disprove your claim, it is your duty to prove it. But, since I have the evidence to disprove your claim, it makes sense to produce it.

When Bergen-Belsen was liberated, it was primarily the Jewish prisoners who died of neglect, be that lack of food or from typhus. Re-feeding syndrome killed many Jews, as they had been starved so badly. Allied bombing did not cause the deaths by typhus, the SS camp staff did.

Nope, many Jewish prisoners died at the Belsen camp during the last months of WW2 because most of the inmates at the Belsen camp at that time were Jewish. On the other hand, there were very few Jews in Dachau and Buchenwald, but those camps were nevertheless also littered with emaciated dead bodies when those camps were liberated by the U.S. Army. This proves that those terrible scenes of epidemic devastation were not the result of any anti-Semitic policy.



According to the orthodox/antirevisionist historian Eberhard Kolb, it was a transport of Hungarian Jews in February 1945 that brought in the lice that started a typhus epidemic in the Belsen camp. This specific transport introduced the lice that carried epidemic typhus into the camp. Due to a complete collapse of camp infrastructure (the delousing facilities in the camp had been temporarily out of order at that time) and a total lack of medical supplies, the disease quickly spiraled out of control, resulting in catastrophic mortality rates prior to the camp's liberation.

So, Allied bombs did not cause the typhus. Or, the starvation.

[Eye of Zyclone]

Mattogno's methodology is flawed. For example, he thinks that finding documents that do not pertain to the operation of the Kremas, that reference special actions that are evidenced not to involve gassing, is somehow evidence that special actions at the Kremas, were not gassings. That is a non sequitur. He also thinks that because he cannot work out how the ovens could have worked, based on limited records to do with coke, that is evidence to prove there were no mass cremations. That is the argument from incredulity.

Zionist propaganda aside and Pressac's "criminal traces" debunked, there is no reason to believe that these rooms had a different function than in the other German camps, that is, morgues for the storage of dead bodies awaiting cremation, as indicated on the architectural plans of these buildings.

There is a very good reason to believe they were used as gas chambers. Corroborating evidence from camp staff, prisoners, documents and circumstances. That you chose to dismiss that evidence and support one of the various claims made by deniers, as to what the Kremas were used for 1943-4, is mere opinion.

No, there is not. Alien-abductions-and-ghost-hunting-type testimonial "evidence" has no intrinsic probative value. And there are no documents proving the existence and use of homicidal gas chambers at Nazi camps. And "circumstancial evidence" is just a misleading code word for a priori assumptions and preconceived conclusions.

No, a Hamas claim has to be accompanied by evidence, Israel has no duty to disprove the claim. The burden of proof is on Hamas to prove the claims they make against Israel and vice versa. If Israel has evidence to disprove a Hamas claim, it makes sense to produce it, even though there is no burden of proof on them to disprove the claim.

You try to wriggle out of the burden of proof for your claim that the Holocaust gassing narrative was hoaxed. I have no duty to disprove your claim, it is your duty to prove it. But, since I have the evidence to disprove your claim, it makes sense to produce it.

Well tried, but I'm no more a claimant than Israel denying an unproven Hamas atrocity story or another.
The burden of proof is on accusers and Holohoaxers are accusers (what is true for one murder is of course also true for six million murders).
YOU are the one trying to wriggle out his due burden of proof because you know that you can't prove the Holocaust with solid, tangible evidence.

So, Allied bombs did not cause the typhus. Or, the starvation.

Yes, they did. No supply lines, no food, medicine and delousing fumigants at concentration camps and other places. Obvious.

[Keen]

The actual principle to do with claims and proof is that no matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

nessie:

A mass grave is defined as a grave containing multiple human corpses, or the remains of multiple people.

nessie, how many actual mass graves did CSC actually prove actually exist within the boundary of the Treblinka II camp?

nessie's answer:

12 - G32, G29, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53, G54.

nessie:

You doubt and deny the evidence I produce.

Impossible claims and verifiably false details do not prove lying.

The evidence TII was a death camp, far exceeds the evidence it had a different function. Only a determined denier, who has lost grip on reality, will pretend that the corroborating evidence from multiple witnesses who describe mass graves, the aerial photo that shows disturbed ground and rectangular outlines and the site surveys that identified disturbed ground and pits in the areas of the camp that the witnesses said contained the mass graves, is not evidence to prove mass graves.

I am both a trained historian and police officer.

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves.

All the mass graves dug by the Nazis, and the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps.

Proof, from multiple sources of corroborating evidence, has been produced.

You ignore corroboration. You deny the gathered evidence.

Claiming that multiple pits found by geophysics in the same part of the camp that witnesses state the main mass graves were dug, is not corroborating evidence to prove mass graves, is denial of reality.

I can point to them in the ground.

No matter what the claim is, the burden of proof is on the claimant.

I have never had any issue with accepting the burden of proof.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

* * * * *

I, _?_, am so confident that the so-called Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts within the holocaust” happened as alleged in orthodox historiography, and that the archaeological / forensic / geophysical / scientific investigations of these five sites were legitimate, and that the alleged “huge mass grave discoveries” were conclusively validated; that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes $1,000.00 that I can definitively prove - in a publicized debate and in a U.S. civil court - that there is a preponderance of conclusively documented and substantiated archaeological / forensic / geophysical / scientific evidence which proves, with absolute certainty, that _?_ grave number _?_ currently contains the remains of - NO LESS THAN _?_ people. Furthermore, I agree that if I refuse to answer any question or get caught lying during our debate or while in court - I lose the bet / case right then and there.

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

* * * * *

So what is nessie waiting for?

What is he so afraid of?

[Keen]

Allied bombs did not cause the typhus. Or, the starvation.

[Nessie]

Zionist propaganda aside and Pressac's "criminal traces" debunked, there is no reason to believe that these rooms had a different function than in the other German camps, that is, morgues for the storage of dead bodies awaiting cremation, as indicated on the architectural plans of these buildings.

There is a very good reason to believe they were used as gas chambers. Corroborating evidence from camp staff, prisoners, documents and circumstances. That you chose to dismiss that evidence and support one of the various claims made by deniers, as to what the Kremas were used for 1943-4, is mere opinion.

No, there is not. Alien-abductions-and-ghost-hunting-type testimonial "evidence" has no intrinsic probative value.

The Jewish and Nazi eyewitnesses, two groups from different countries, cultures, who are not going to cooperate, who then corroborate, is strong corroboration.

And there are no documents proving the existence and use of homicidal gas chambers at Nazi camps.

There are documents that prove gas chambers were constructed inside the A-B Kremas, for a special action that involved undressing, multiple corpse cremations and infirm, Jewish and Hungarian prisoners.

And "circumstancial evidence" is just a misleading code word for a priori assumptions and preconceived conclusions.

The evidential trail, of the existence of hundreds of thousands of imprisoned Jews, ends inside A-B Kremas. The circumstances of the disappearance of those people, is akin to the disappearance of anyone who is murdered and their corpse disposed of. There is evidence of Nazi motive to kill Jews, they had the opportunity to do so and their conduct after the crime, by destroying much of the evidence, can be used to infer criminal activity.

No, a Hamas claim has to be accompanied by evidence, Israel has no duty to disprove the claim. The burden of proof is on Hamas to prove the claims they make against Israel and vice versa. If Israel has evidence to disprove a Hamas claim, it makes sense to produce it, even though there is no burden of proof on them to disprove the claim.

You try to wriggle out of the burden of proof for your claim that the Holocaust gassing narrative was hoaxed. I have no duty to disprove your claim, it is your duty to prove it. But, since I have the evidence to disprove your claim, it makes sense to produce it.

Well tried, but I'm no more a claimant than Israel denying an unproven Hamas atrocity story or another.
The burden of proof is on accusers and Holohoaxers are accusers (what is true for one murder is of course also true for six million murders).
YOU are the one trying to wriggle out his due burden of proof because you know that you can't prove the Holocaust with solid, tangible evidence.

When you claim the gassings are hoaxed, the burden is on you to prove that.

When war crimes investigators and historians produced evidence of mass gassings, Holocaust deniers accused them of hoaxing the gassings, making the deniers the accusers.

So, Allied bombs did not cause the typhus. Or, the starvation.

Yes, they did. No supply lines, no food, medicine and delousing fumigants at concentration camps and other places. Obvious.

You still cannot evidence or explain how Allied bombs did not cause POWs to die from starvation and typhus, but Jews did. The answer is that the SS staff neglected the Jews.