Revisionist objections to claims of genocide in USSR

[Hektor]

bombsaway introduces the current thread with:

In this [previous] thread I showed planning documents for a specific operation to kill some three hundred thousand Jews [...]

But what he actually says in that previous thread is:

An exterminate all Jews EG planning document has not surfaced. What exists are regional plans, like the "the general resettlement of the Jews",[...]

So, "planning documents for a specific operation to kill" admittedly "has not surfaced", yet you also claim to have shown these same documents (which don't exist).

What does exist are regional plans explicitly for "resettlement".

These are your own words.

That is how it usually goes. Create atmosphere for people to expect something terrible or horrendous. Show some documents and then insinuate that they are evidence for that unspeakable horrendous. E.g. resettlement or anti-partisan action as 'genocide'.

[Archie]

Who cares about the date of the order?

Translation: you can't explain it and don't want to try.

There's a world of difference between a full extermination order in spring of 1941 vs. a two-stage extermination decision vs. no extermination order at all (in the extreme functional case). This changes the interpretation of many documents throughout 1941. If we are debating whether the Einsatzgruppen had a primary mission of exterminating the Jews, then it's very relevant. Initially, it seemed you were committing to extermination from the beginning. Now you seem to be backing off that somewhat (and saying it doesn't matter if there were orders or not).

[Archie]

I find BA is being a rather imprecise with all of this. Note that he has repeatedly used the word "genocide." The problem I have with that word is that it's often used very broadly to include many things that fall far short of what "the Holocaust" claims. The UN definition includes measures to limit births and things like that. The reason he's doing this is because he does not actually want to have to defend the specific factual claims his side has made. We see this also in his insistence that it's "not about the numbers." He's doing motte and bailey tactics.

[bombsaway]

the genocide is for sure not stopping births. in the Wolhynien thread I've been more precise, showing most of the Jews there were shot. Obviously I think this took place outside of that region too, it happened everywhere in occupied USSR where Jews were kept.

As for the numbers, they matter but don't matter. The case for orthodoxy is so strong it could survive even if you revised the numbers down 50%. I'll illustrate this for you - if the extent of the Holocaust was 600k Jews shot (1/2 the orthodox number) in occupied USSR it would be the largest direct killing operation of its kind outside of Rwandan genocide. Most genocides tend to occur on a much lower scale and privation and starvation are responsible for most of the deaths. The key part is that the Germans killed virtually all Jews in occupied USSR. There was no resettlement. Wolhynien illustrates this perfectly, which is why I brought it up, and why I think you an other revisionists are unable to sustain an argurment in that thread.

[Wahrheitssucher]

…As for the numbers, they matter but don't matter…

…The key part is that the Germans killed virtually all Jews in occupied USSR.

…“virtually ALL jooze”?

Yeah, yeah! [oh boy!]

This is another example of why I suggest it is pointless discussing history with this person. He is a deeply delusional, deceitful and ignorant timewaster.

He is contradicted on the above ludicrously exaggerated claim by one of the main organs for promoting holyhoax mythology:

At the end of the war, Jews displaced in the Soviet Union were the largest group of surviving European Jews…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_of_ ... rld_War_II

After World War II, the Jewish population in Russia was approximately 2.5 million. This number reflects a significant decline due to ‘the Holocaust’ and emigration…

As the war progressed and the Wehrmacht got further into the Soviet Union, huge numbers of Soviet citizens, mostly Jewish, sought safety by moving east, further into the interior, to escape the Nazi hordes. …the Soviet government moved Jews from areas such as the Crimean Peninsula into areas further away from the front-lines…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_of_ ... portations

[bombsaway]

At the end of the war, Jews displaced in the Soviet Union were the largest group of surviving European Jews…

Yep because they fled ahead of the german advance

[Wahrheitssucher]

“At the end of the war, Jews displaced in the Soviet Union were the largest group of surviving European Jews…”

Yep because they fled ahead of the german advance

Yeah. Many ‘jooze’ apparently “fled”, which [focus now] logically means they were not “virtually ALL killed”.
Understand?

And that quote above that you are now trying to twist to buttress your irrational holyH belief-system is:
1.) from holyhoax-promoting Wikipedia — which is NOT a credible nor reliable source;
2.) even it contradicts your original, nonsensensical and ludicrous claim, the one that you are no longer making.

You don’t get it, do you?

Which again shows you appear to be an ignorant, low-intelligence, deceitful time-waster trying desperately to prop up a largely-refuted, WW2, ‘atrocity’ belief-system any how you can.

[bombsaway]

"The key part is that the Germans killed virtually all Jews in occupied USSR"

You know what occupied is? You need to look at yourself in the mirror

[Wahrheitssucher]

"The key part is that the Germans killed virtually all Jews in occupied USSR"
You know what occupied is?

Allowing and encouraging ‘jooze’ to “flee” isn’t “virtually killing them ALL”, is it?
Do you really not understand this?
Does your programming really go this deep?

”…individuals reported that Wehrmacht soldiers seemed almost helpful in pushing the refugees to make their way to Soviet-controlled territory. There are several memoirs written by individual refugees after the war which corroborate this…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exile_of_ ... portations

Your cherished, holyH belief-system has you believing that Adolf and his Third Reich apparatus was trying to kill ALL ‘jooze’ in occupied territory in order to make Europe ‘judenrein’.
But a problem for die-hard holyH believers like you is personal accounts like the ones referred to above, which refute that.
Faithful HolyH believers also have a problem with the fact that the surviving documentation shows the ‘Endlösung der Judenfrage’ was actually about forced emigration. That was how Europe was planned to be made judenrein, not by ‘extermination’ (which Himmler wrote was the Soviet way and would be profoundly ungermanic).

Believers and paid-promoters of this monstrous calumny therefore have to misinform, deceive, avoid, dodge, misrepresent and deny anything that refutes their mythological tale of special suffering for ‘jooze’ during WW2. It ironically is a profoundly racist thing to do as it has to ignore and minimise the approximately 61 to 79 million other civilian deaths during WW2.

SUMMARY
As already demonstrated (though denied/avoided by you) wikipedia says many ‘jooze’ “emigrated” from occupied Soviet territory.
According to jooish holyH-promoter Yitzhak Arad, out of 2.75–2.9 million approximately 125,000–390,000 ‘jooze’ remained in areas of German-occupied Soviet territory.

So FIRSTLY, your historiographical responsibility — should you wish to accept it — is to acknowledge when you make false claims and correct them, plus correct your understanding of history where it has been contradicted.

SECONDLY, no-one knows how many “fled”, NOR how many “emigrated”, NOR how many “died” of hardship, illness, etc., and so NOR knows how many were “killed”.
Do you agree?
Consequently for you to conclude that “virtually ALL ‘jooze’” who were no longer in the areas of Soviet territories that had been occupied were killed, is illogical, stupid and demonstrates quasi-religious belief.

[bombsaway]

you quote them allowing Jews to go there in 1939 when they were not at war with the USSR

"According to jooish holyH-promoter Yitzhak Arad, out of 2.75–2.9 million approximately 125,000–390,000 ‘jooze’ remained in areas of German-occupied Soviet territory."

what lol? where he did he say this. I just quoted a German assessment from august 1942 saying there were 326k Jews in a relatively small area (probably 1/10th of occupied area)