Leuchter on gas chamber capacity vs Mainstream Narrative [retitled]

[Revision]

Fred Leuchter claims:

"if we would have used just the physical floorspace, assuming those facilities were gas chambers, to execute six million people would have taken 68 years"

The mainstream narrative does not claim that "six million were gassed". Anyone who has heard about the Einsatzgruppen should know that. This seems to be very common mistake also among wannabe Holocaust revisionists and conspiracy theorist types.



According to USHMM:

- Approximately 2.7 million Jews were murdered at killing centers. (The Nazi German regime created five killing centers specifically to murder Jewish people using poison gas. These killing centers were called Chełmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz-Birkenau.)

- About 2 million Jews were murdered in mass shooting operations and related massacres. (The Germans and their allies and collaborators carried out mass shooting operations and related massacres of Jews in more than 1,500 cities, towns, and villages across occupied eastern Europe.)

- Between 800,000 and 1,000,000 Jews were murdered in ghettos, labor camps, and concentration camps. (In ghettos, concentration camps, and labor camps created by the Germans and their allies and collaborators, Jews were murdered through deliberate privation, disease, brutal treatment, and arbitrary acts of violence.)

- At least 250,000 Jews were murdered in other acts of violence outside of camps and ghettos. (The Germans and their allies and collaborators killed Jewish people in acts of violence and deprivation that took place outside of sites of detention (camps and ghettos). This includes Jews murdered in antisemitic riots; in individual executions; as partisans; and en route to and between sites of detention (on forced marches, trains, and ships).)

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/ ... ersecution

[fireofice]

It's an understandable mistake among laymen, but someone that's investigating it should know better.

Although even taking the actual number of people said to be gassed (I think around 3 million), according to Leuchter's logic it should be around 34 years. That said, this claim of his that it would take that long to gas 3 million Jews doesn't seem correct to me.

[Archie]

He said 1,700/wk.

6,000,000/1,700 = 3,529 weeks = 67.9 weeks

That's how he's getting his numbers.

LK1 of Krema II was 210 sq meters. Hard to say what packing density to assume, but for say 4 bodies per sq meter, that's 840 per gassing. So then you'd only have to do 2 gassings per week to hit his 1,700 figure. And then you have Kremas III-V, the bunkers, the gas chambers at Majdanek, etc. He says that's ignoring the body disposal problem, but if you ignore that then you could do many gassings per week.

The main problems are body disposal and the fact that the "gas chambers" show no sign of intelligent design. Limited gas chamber area isn't really the issue.

[Fred Ziffel]

Not just the disposal itself, but the necessary replacement of the refractory lining in each oven and flue systems
A camp called Gusen also used Topf model ovens, and Mattogno did a comparison or case study of the wear and tear on the refractory. I summed it up in this attachment here for easy comprehension.
As a lot of you know, there were no documented refractory activity except at the main camp in Spring Summer of 1942, and a delivery of spare bricks on December 9, 1941.

[TlsMS93]

So they have already ruled out Majdanek?

They cannot distinguish between Jewish casualties and deaths in the Holocaust as Hilberg proposed. So gassing and shooting would be the smoking guns of such genocide. According to the numbers currently maintained, there would be 2 million in the Reinhard, Chelmno and Majdanek camps included, but they seem to rule out the latter, so it would be 58 thousand less + 990 thousand in AB, together with the 1.4 million shot on the Eastern Front we would reach 4.3 million people murdered, a number similar to what Gerald Reitlinger believed, I put not even Jews because even they do not know how to define themselves

The bottleneck in the extermination process and its dismissal as a cover-up already makes everything completely absurd. Some argue that up to 2000 people could fit in the largest Kremas, this ignoring the absurdity of these people having to accumulate in perfect order and there never being riot and revolt. 2000 people would take 1 week to be cremated according to the best technical approach of these ovens, that is, there would be no successive gassings as there would be nowhere to throw these 2000 corpses for another extermination cycle, maintaining that they would fit on the oven floor supposes that it would create a bottleneck even so.

[Stubble]

For me, the entire holocaust can be summed up looking at majdanek. Once claimed to be a death camp in which 2,000,000 perished, it is now simply considered a concentration and labor camp.

And yet still, the grotesque 'art' of the Soviets stands as a testament to a LIE.

The 'gas chambers' were hygienic, not homicidal. Jews were cared for in the camps just as everyone else. Their 'special treatment' was the deprivation of their 'civil rights' during a war, as they waged guerrilla warfare on the German Authorities.

The international element of the jewish people waged a total war on the German people. As a result, the jews of Europe were put in a 'predicament'. Shoah is a much better term than holocaust.

There was no intention to commit a genocide of the jewish people. Germany simply sought to restore herself, and she spent 12 years not a slave.

[Shane St John]

I don't know what the mainstream narrative was at that time, it has shifted a lot throughout the years. When i was in school, we were taught that 6 million jews were killed primarily by gas chamber. If you ask the common person on the street if they believe that 6 million were killed in the gas chambers, they would probably say yes.
Even the part about 6 million was made up and only made canon because people repeated it enough. The main point of Leuchter's work is to demonstrate that nobody could have died the way it is reported.

[TlsMS93]

I don't know what the mainstream narrative was at that time, it has shifted a lot throughout the years. When i was in school, we were taught that 6 million jews were killed primarily by gas chamber. If you ask the common person on the street if they believe that 6 million were killed in the gas chambers, they would probably say yes.
Even the part about 6 million was made up and only made canon because people repeated it enough. The main point of Leuchter's work is to demonstrate that nobody could have died the way it is reported.

The Holocaust is like that myth that 70 souls, in 210 years, generated 2 million people who left Egypt. Besides, the number 6 has a negative connotation for them, so they play with numbers to give symbolism to their story.

Note that there was no in-depth investigation into the veracity of this number; rather, during the war it was already established and so the Allies supported it with a lot of Jewish funding behind it.

Ordinary people only know about the Holocaust through American films; they hardly know what is canonical and the gaps in this event. People are too busy and full of problems to solve, they will not take the little rest they have to delve deeper into it, so they take what is pushed at face value.

[HansHill]

Leucther admittedly is being less than clear here, however I'm more interested in the host's response and lack thereof.

Firstly the host doesn't correct Leuchter that not all 6 million were attributable to Auschwitz, and secondly and more importantly, responds with inane arguments about people in cattle cars as proof of genocide and appeals to "why would they lie". These sort of arguments from emotion are far worse than anything Leucther said here, but of course the standard for Revisionists is so much higher than the standard for Orthodoxy proponents.

[Wetzelrad]

Leuchter also made some irresponsible claims in a broadcast this April on Stew Peters's show. This clip went viral:

If somebody said to me, "I want to execute large quantities of people. We wanna do one hundred people at a time." Y'know, what you're saying to me is a total joke. I can't even do that using -- we can build a gallows that hangs one hundred people. I can build a hundred electric chairs and we can electrocute them all the time. We're going to have an [?] amount of current to do it.

But, y'know, the point is it's not a practical thing to execute multiple quantities of people, and I think if the Germans actually did want to do that they would have found an old abandoned mine, they would have put all these people inside the mine, and they would have blown the entrance to the mine up, and these people would have died inside the mine by suffocation. But they certainly wouldn't have used any system -- they knew better. Just like I know better. I can't execute multiple people. It's not practical.

Peters: It's not practical. Let me ask you this. Is it possible?

Yeah. It wasn't possible with Zyklon B and I'll tell you why. There wasn't enough Zyklon B ever made on this planet to execute six million Jews. There never was that much gas. But as far as -- yeah, I can build a hundred electric chairs. I can electrocute a hundred people at a time, providing I have a --

Peters: Yeah, you said that, but would you be able to use a gas chamber to execute hundreds of Jews at a time? Would it be possible?

I don't believe so. I think it would probably take you two years or three years just to vent the chamber after you did the execution.

Peters: And that's just one execution of a hundred people?

Yes, yes. And again, remember that I don't believe there was ever that much gas in existence. If all of the hydrogen cyanide gas that was produced for whatever reason -- for exterminating vermin -- was put into one place, we don't have enough gas to kill that many people!

This seems wrong for three reasons:

1) However rare or impractical they may be, multiple executions are physically possible. People do sometimes die in quantities from CO poisoning or other gasses, and there's nothing that strictly prevents the same from happening with HCN.

2) Venting HCN from a room would not take three years. Even if there was nothing but the entry door for ventilation it would gradually diffuse away within days. There are written procedures for doing this.

3) There definitely was enough Zyklon to kill millions of people. Since American gas chambers are said to use 3,200 to 3,600 ppm of HCN (Rudolf p.235), we can calculate the number of cans required per gassing at Crema II as being 3 to 4 (Rudolf p.265). Since Auschwitz is known to have received many thousands of cans, there is no issue of numbers here. The high lethality of HCN is why Pressac came up with the idea that as little as 2% of delivered Zyklon was used for homicidal purposes.

Leuchter means well, but like many public figures he is boisterous and reckless in his opinions. Nothing to do about it but keep him out of positions of authority.

[Callafangers]

This seems wrong for three reasons:

1) However rare or impractical they may be, multiple executions are physically possible. People do sometimes die in quantities from CO poisoning or other gasses, and there's nothing that strictly prevents the same from happening with HCN.

2) Venting HCN from a room would not take three years. Even if there was nothing but the entry door for ventilation it would gradually diffuse away within days. There are written procedures for doing this.

3) There definitely was enough Zyklon to kill millions of people. Since American gas chambers are said to use 3,200 to 3,600 ppm of HCN (Rudolf p.235), we can calculate the number of cans required per gassing at Crema II as being 3 to 4 (Rudolf p.265). Since Auschwitz is known to have received many thousands of cans, there is no issue of numbers here. The high lethality of HCN is why Pressac came up with the idea that as little as 2% of delivered Zyklon was used for homicidal purposes.

Leuchter means well, but like many public figures he is boisterous and reckless in his opinions. Nothing to do about it but keep him out of positions of authority.

Leuchter has been something of a double-edged sword in the world of revisionism. On one hand, he was the catalyst that piqued Rudolf's interest in this work in the 90s and his credentials as an actual gas chamber expert drew a good deal of attention however it has turned out to be that he is essentially a fraud and never even wrote his own namesake's report (Faurisson wrote it more or less entirely, as confirmed in a conversation he had with Rudolf). Many of the criticisms against Leuchter have been valid and, from what I have read from those who have known him, he is also something of a con-man in general. He just isn't the guy anyone should be promoting as one of the faces of revisionism. Interviews like this one is also one of he main reasons I have had skepticism about the sincerity of Stew Peters, who I have seen often do more to discredit alternative viewpoints than to give them a fair hearing, by platforming many of the biggest 'quacks' he can find in any alternative perspective rather than critically seeking the most intelligent or outstanding contributors. As for Leuchter, I view his main role in revisionism as something like that of a mascot; but for the establishment, he is much more like a real-life 'strawman'. Both he and David Irving have come to serve this role, given their infamy and specific controversies that have made them the most popular names in 'Holocaust denial', despite neither of them producing especially focused or forceful contributions in Holocaust revisionism.

[Stubble]

Leuchter is kind of a retard. He's my retard though. I appreciate him for his sacrifice having been essentially robbed of his livelihood after giving testimony in the Zundel Trial.

Did he write his report? No. Did he test his samples? No. Did he go look at the supposed improvised 'homicidal gas chambers' and find himself unable to determine how groups of persons could be killed in them with Zyklon B? Yes. Is he right about that? In my opinion, yes.

[Archie]

Back in February I got an anonymous complaint about this thread. I will quote the main part of it without comment.

The post attacking Fred is out of line and pathetic

the post attack Leuchter does real damage to the truth. I could give a ----
if Fred kept up with the Jews' ever-changing definition of the holohoax. He
is correct that that is the mainstream narrative so these idiots were
wrong. They were attacking him for missing the mainstream narrative and
then quote the details of the current esoteric Jewish understanding, which
NOBODY KNOWS POPULARLY SO, NO, FRED IS NOT IGNORANT OF THE MAINSTREAM
NARRATIVE. THE IDIOTS ATTACKING HIM ARE. THE MAINSTREAM NARRATIVE IS NOT
THE UHMSS (OR WHATEVER IT WAS) DEFINITION, OR THE OFFICIAL YAD VASHEM OR
HOLOHOAX REGIME DEFINITION. THAT IS NOT THE MAINSTREAM NARRATIVE SO THAT
POST FROM FEB 2025, IS A ------ IDISGRACE AND ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW WHITE
MEN WILL SELF-DESTRUCT BY ATTACKING EACH OTHER.