Looking for answers to questions asked on the thisisaboutscience.com website

[Keen]

Well now, isn't this interesting. It appears that there was another scientifically proven "huge mass grave" at Sobibor in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology. This "huge mass grave" looks like it contains the remains of two people. (I wonder if the Germans used an excavator to dig this massive pit?)



So that's three "huge mass graves" that contain a total of 8 people.

Nazgul, will your adjust your answer to the previous question accordingly?

[borjastick]

Not sure what Keen's point is here unless he's trying and vying for numero uno in Nessie's fan club and trying to be second in command of the Fish Wives Frying Club.

You seem to be a fan of extreme extrapolation. People die and some are buried. The pictures you show are indeed the work of what appears to be official investigations but I have no idea if they are from the second world war.

The claim is that hundreds of thousands of jews went into 'death' camps and were exterminated and then buried or cremated after being buried and then dug up. Yes that's the claim but there are many claims about the jews and the holocaust and little proof whatsoever.

So my advice would be stop the extreme extrapolation because it doesn't work and look at the evidence of mass murder and cremation etc that would necessarily be found even today if the claims of gas chambers, millions of dead jews and body disposal have actually happened.

[Nazgul]

Nazgul, I'm glad you appeared. I have been wondering if anyone could answer the following questions. Perhaps you can:

V - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; If 100 graves contained the bones and teeth of 2.1 million people - then each grave would contain, on average, the remains of 21,000 people - ??

Question is simplistic as it is an established fact that deaths occurred on transports from a variety of reasons and graves were needed. It is also a fact that Treblinka after Soviet occupation was used as a bombing and shelling range. No real graves have been established, only ground disturbances from ordinance and some cremains from natural deaths perhaps. No indication of mass murder.

[Keen]

Nazgul, I'm glad you appeared. I have been wondering if anyone could answer the following questions. Perhaps you can:

V - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; If 100 graves contained the bones and teeth of 2.1 million people - then each grave would contain, on average, the remains of 21,000 people - ??

Question is simplistic as it is an established fact that deaths occurred on transports from a variety of reasons and graves were needed. It is also a fact that Treblinka after Soviet occupation was used as a bombing and shelling range. No real graves have been established, only ground disturbances from ordinance and some cremains from natural deaths perhaps. No indication of mass murder.

Looks like Nazgul must have flunked math class.

So the largest "huge mass grave" that we've seen so far contained the remains of 5 people, when on average, they would contain 21,000. Something doesn't add up here.

Nazgul, if something is an established fact, does that mean that it has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt?

And you say "graves were needed"? For how many people?

[Keen]

Please feel free to check my math here.

So the first question asked on the http://thisisaboutscience.com/ website is:

Can you prove that what is alleged to have been proven has actually been proven?

And the second question is:

Are the remains of over 2.1 million Jews really buried in the 100 alleged mass graves?

Said website cites a figure derived from statistics taken from USHMM and Yad Vashem.

Said cited figure is 2,145,000 jews. (The untold thousands of non jews alleged to be buried in the "huge mass graves" as well are not included in the calculation.)

So if we have 3 "huge mass graves" that have been proven to exist and to contain human remains, and said remains total 8 people, that means we have to divide 2,144,992 by 97. And when we do, we get: 22,113.

So we have 97 remaining "huge mass graves" that allegedly contain, on average, the remains of 22,113 people in each. Yet no one here can bring themselves to answer this simple question:

21 - Of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

Is that because the answer to the question is this "huge mass grave" here: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11 ... 391739.jpg

[HansHill]

Please feel free to check my math here.

Are you strictly searching for bodies, that is, corpses? Or are you also looking for cremains? In my first response to you, i gave you some considerations towards the nuance that an exercise like this entails and i have not detected that you have considered any of these nuances.

I recommend you begin on a camp by camp basis, starting at one of the larger camps, for example Treblinka (as i demonstrated in my first reply to you) or Sobibor (which I will present below). Both of these camps received alot of attention and multiple digs.

I also recommend you allow for split focus on either corpses (or part thereof), and ash. This is because both sets of findings mean completely different things, and have separate arguments for and against their presence being indicative or exculpatory of guilt (or inconclusive) and I don't feel that your current approach allows for this.



Here we can see that scattered remains were indeed found at Sobibor. This is from Germar Rudolf's Holocaust Encyclopedia, which I recommended you review earlier.



Here are the findings of Kola's dig at Sobibor, in one grave there indeed were found skeletal remains. This is taken from HH Vol 19. The reason why nuance is required here is the number of bodies is completely inconclusive. And the identities of these bodies also remains inconclusive, we don't even know were these people Jews or were they Poles, or even SS men.

[Keen]

HansHill

Are you strictly searching for bodies, that is, corpses?

HansHill, as the title of this thread indicates, I am "Looking for answers to questions asked on the thisisaboutscience.com website."

HansHill

Or are you also looking for cremains?

The questions pretty much ask for human remains, so I am going with that. Whatever can be defined as human remains, in whatever form, mixed or not, especially in an amount that exceedes 5 humans.

The "60 simple questions that expose the holocaust archaeology hoax" are the main questions that I am looking for answers to, especially these:

*10 - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits in question at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, is - THIS SOBIBOR GRAVE - ?? https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11 ... 391739.jpg

H - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - ??

I - Can you provide credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

J - Is there a preponderance of credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

K - Can it be conclusively proven that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

L - Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

M - Can you conclusively prove that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at one or more of the following camps: Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

H - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - ??

I - Can you provide credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

J - Is there a preponderance of credible and convincing evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

K - Can it be conclusively proven that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

L - Is it a fact that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

M - Can you conclusively prove that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at one or more of the following camps: Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II - Yes. - or - No. - ??

21 - Of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

HansHill

Here are the findings of Kola's dig at Sobibor, in one grave there indeed were found skeletal remains. This is taken from HH Vol 19. The reason why nuance is required here is the number of bodies is completely inconclusive. And the identities of these bodies also remains inconclusive, we don't even know were these people Jews or were they Poles, or even SS men.

It doesn't matter if the remains are from jews or not. And if indeed Kola found a grave with skeletal remans in it, then:

Did the "findings" of Kola's dig at Sobibor prove the existence of a mass grave that contained more human remains than this one: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11 ... 391739.jpg

Yes or no?

BTW HansHill, I thank you for the information that you are sharing.

One other thing HansHill, in case you have not seen the maps to which the Sobibor questions are directed, you can view them here:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2842

[Keen]

I think I'll just go ahead and post the maps here.

Here are the first 18 of the 24 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Sobibor - as alleged by the charlatan Yoram Haimi:


https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1525216165


And here are the last 6 of the 24 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Sobibor - as alleged by the charlatan Yoram Haimi:


https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1525303065


And here is how Haimi's numbers correspond to THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX CHALLENGE ( http://thisisaboutscience.com/ ) numbering system:


Haimi's "grave" #1 A = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #1/62

Haimi's "grave" #2 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #2/63

Haimi's "Memory Hill" (AKA the - "monument of ashes / mound of remains") = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #3/64

Haimi's "grave" #3/4 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #4/65

Haimi's "grave" #5 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #5/66

Haimi's "grave" #6 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #6/67

Haimi's "grave" #7 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #7/68

Haimi's "grave" #8 (8/15) = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #8/69

Haimi's "grave" #9 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #9/70

Haimi's "grave" #10 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #10/71

Haimi's "grave" #11 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #11/72

Haimi's "grave" #12 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #12/73

Haimi's "grave" #13 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #13/74

Haimi's "grave" #14= The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #14/75

Haimi's "grave" #15 (8/15) = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #15/76

Haimi's "grave" #16 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #16/77

Haimi's "grave" #17 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #17/78

Haimi's "grave" #18 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #18/79

Haimi's "grave" #19 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #19/80

Haimi's "grave" #20 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #20/81

Haimi's "grave" #21 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #21/82

Haimi's "grave" #22 = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #22/83

Haimi's "grave" #1 B = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #23/84

Haimi's "grave" #1 C = The H.A.H.C. "huge mass grave" #24/85


Note: "Graves #21 and #22" are actually labeled by Yoram Haimi as "Objects 6094-6095." However, you cannot see his numbers clearly in the map, so #21 and #22 have used instead. (The numbers are in red, below the orange colored "graves.")

[HansHill]

BTW HansHill, I thank you for the information that you are sharing.

One other thing HansHill, in case you have not seen the maps to which the Sobibor questions are directed, you can view them here:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2842

You're welcome Keen. I don't have time now but I'll review the maps (and your rebuttal) later when I do, thanks.

[Keen]

HansHill

Here are the findings of Kola's dig at Sobibor, in one grave there indeed were found skeletal remains. This is taken from HH Vol 19. The reason why nuance is required here is the number of bodies is completely inconclusive.

HansHill, would you please:

4 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

9 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 2 human beings: __?__.

14 - List all of the Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove currently contain the remains of at least 21 human beings: __?__.

19 - Of the 24 alleged Sobibor graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: __?__.

And here are a couple other questions in which I am very interested to see the answers to:

*7 - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; It was once seriously alleged that the so-called - “ASH MOUND”

-

“mass grave” at Sobibor was comprised of - “ASHES” OF JEWS - ??

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-inf ... /ashes.htm

*8 - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; Sobibor's alleged - “ASH MOUND” - “burial site”

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Sob ... _250397297

has never been archeologically / forensically / scientifically proven to contain so-much-as 1 / 100 of 1 percent of - THIS DEATH TOLL - figure - ??

[Wetzelrad]

The following photo:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11 ... 391739.jpg

has been proffered as proof that graves containing verified human remains have been tangibly located (in at least one of these 5 sites) via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology.

So my next question is, of the remaining 98 alleged graves, how many are also alleged to have been proven to contain verified human remains via the same (or greater) level of proof?

The answer is 0. The photo depicts six skeletons in one grave. This qualifies as one mass grave. This level of evidence does not exist for any other grave. -- However I am welcome to be proved wrong on this.

HansHill's argument is correct that there is alleged to be cremains and even saponified corpses in some graves at Sobibor, but I have yet to see any evidence that rises to the level of the simple photograph above. The authorities seem reluctant to excavate or photograph their findings. Obstinate, even.