Holocoaster of Auschwitz

[Stubble]

This is right up there with the Aktion Reinhardt underground metro for gassing victims...

[Archie]

One of the biggest blunders in the "Vrba-Wetzler" report is that it claims that there was some sort of track/rail car to take bodies from the gas chamber to the ovens. Vrba (or whoever actually wrote that thing) didn't seem to know that the "gas chamber" and the ovens were on different floors.

This Belsen trial testimony talks about a "lorry" that dumped people directly into the gas chamber.

On 25th December, 1943, I was sick with typhus and was picked out at a selection made by Doctors Mengele and Tauber along with about 350 other women. I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to fite [bite?] their hands and foam at the mouth and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a Doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele. Apparently he realised that as a political prisoner I was of more value alive than dead and I was released.
-Regina Bialok, May 1945, testimony at the Belsen Trial, http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Tri ... 015_Bialek

Some of the Soviet reports talk about a conveyor belt.

There's some parody song potential

[Stubble]

There was enough testimony about the holocoaster that IIRC Pressac tried to make sense of it positing that there were rails going down to the semibasments of lk1 in Kremas II and III.

I'll see if I can find it.

I think the mention is in technique, I may have run across it in an interview however.

Exterminationists are extremely dismissive of this one because they say it is the one testimony in a book.

As you rightly point out, it is also in the Auschwitz Protocols, albeit with a slightly different twist. There are other mentions.

If I had the skill, I'd parody the shit out of love rollercoaster and make it into holocoaster.

[borjastick]

Just to shine further light on the complete farce this statement is, I have highlighted the nonsense and absurdities so no one is left in any doubt that what she is saying is total bollocks. Almost as hilarious is what she didn't say but I'll let your imagination think that through for fun...

On 25th December, 1943, I was sick with typhus and was picked out at a selection made by Doctors Mengele and Tauber along with about 350 other women. I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to fite [bite?] their hands and foam at the mouth and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a Doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele. Apparently he realised that as a political prisoner I was of more value alive than dead and I was released.

[Archie]

This book was published by Praeger (an academic publisher) in 1996. But the original compilation by Eugene Aroneanu is from 1946. That makes more sense as this has the distinct flavor of that early material.

Here is a brief German Wikipedia entry on Aroneanu.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Aroneanu

The original text of the book seems to be this.
Konzentrationslager. Tatsachenbericht über die an der Menschheit begangenen Verbrechen; Dokument F 321 für den Internationalen Militärgerichtshof in Nürnberg; Arbeitsgemeinschaft „Das Licht“

Not sure what this working group Das Licht was. But it sounds like he was involved with collecting material at Nuremberg.

[TlsMS93]

Just to shine further light on the complete farce this statement is, I have highlighted the nonsense and absurdities so no one is left in any doubt that what she is saying is total bollocks. Almost as hilarious is what she didn't say but I'll let your imagination think that through for fun...

On 25th December, 1943, I was sick with typhus and was picked out at a selection made by Doctors Mengele and Tauber along with about 350 other women. I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to fite [bite?] their hands and foam at the mouth and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a Doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele. Apparently he realised that as a political prisoner I was of more value alive than dead and I was released.

He took a convict out of a functioning gas chamber and knew the number of the convict and she knew how to hear the number in the face of all that panic?

Will Nessie argue that it was a rumor? That the characters didn't exist? That this kind of thing is even expected? Bizarre.

[Nessie]

...

Will Nessie argue that it was a rumor? That the characters didn't exist? That this kind of thing is even expected? Bizarre.

It is clearly hearsay, atrocity rumour. None of the eyewitnesses who worked inside the Kremas speak about a conveyor belt or carriages.

[Stubble]

...

Will Nessie argue that it was a rumor? That the characters didn't exist? That this kind of thing is even expected? Bizarre.

It is clearly hearsay, atrocity rumour. None of the eyewitnesses who worked inside the Kremas speak about a conveyor belt or carriages.

Nessie, it made it's way into the Auschwitz Protocols...

Sonderkommando unironically claimed very close to this.

[Nessie]

...

Will Nessie argue that it was a rumor? That the characters didn't exist? That this kind of thing is even expected? Bizarre.

It is clearly hearsay, atrocity rumour. None of the eyewitnesses who worked inside the Kremas speak about a conveyor belt or carriages.

Nessie, it made it's way into the Auschwitz Protocols...

Evidence is gathered and then sifted to weed out the hearsay and rumour.

Sonderkommando unironically claimed very close to this.

They said they used trolleys.

[Stubble]

Trolleys that don't exist on rails that were never there...

[Nessie]

Trolleys that don't exist on rails that were never there...

Your incredulity has no evidential value.

[Stubble]

Nessie, how did they get 'a trolley' out of the semibasments and up to the crematorium?

You say this has no evidentiary value, and yet, here the question sits, unresolved.

Furthermore, can you cite any historians that cite this part of any testimony?

You can't, because it's bullshit.

[Nessie]

Nessie, how did they get 'a trolley' out of the semibasments and up to the crematorium?

You say this has no evidentiary value, and yet, here the question sits, unresolved.

Furthermore, can you cite any historians that cite this part of any testimony?

You can't, because it's bullshit.

Your incredulity has no evidential value. Here is an eyewitness talking about Krema I;

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=82890

"In the "boiler room" we put the corpses on a trolley with a high platform that ran on rails installed between the furnaces. This trolley went from the door of the bunker, where the corpses were, on a turntable that crossed the "boiler room" on broad rails. From these there ran narrower rails on which the trolley itself fitted, leading to each muffle. The trolley ran on four metal wheels."

This 1941 plan of the Krema shows the turntable inbetween the ovens.

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0151.shtml

This a reconstruction inside Krema I;

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cr ... I_2012.jpg



As for Krema II, the witness states this;

"The trolley for transporting the corpses was little used in Krematorium II. It was replaced by a metal stretcher that was pushed to the back of the muffle with the aid of iron rollers located below the bottom edge of the muffle door. This new device was invented, it appears, by Obercapo August. It was later used in all the crematoriums."

Looks like the poor standard of revisionist investigation has mixed up the Kremas.

[Stubble]

That's quite the pivot.

While I understand that Vrba called Kremas II and III Kremas I and II, that is in no way what we are talking about.

[Archie]

Here is what it says in the text (WRB version). This is the procedure of Kremas I/II (which nowadays are usually called II/III).

A track leads from the gas chamber towards the furnace room.

The chamber is then opened, aired and the "special squad" carts the bodies on flat trucks to the furnace rooms where the burning takes place.

And here is the diagram.



The authors of this report clearly had the misimpression that everything was on the same floor, that the rooms had a linear arrangement, and that there was a track with little trolley cars or something to move the bodies. There wasn't. It's BS. Vrba quietly dropped this part in later versions of his story.