Is the demonization of Hitler as we see even warranted at all?

[Frye]

Is it ever OK to demonize anybody?

Hitler was very close friends with Ernst Rohm until his desire to merge the SA paramilitary with the Germany military under his leadership threatened the Nazi military elites.

During the Night of the Long Knives, Hitler ordered a purge of the SA and had his friend arrested and killed without trial.

Is having your close friend killed in order to gain power worth demonizing?

Fascinating question, I'm actually very interested in this topic, because NOTLK exposes the early NSDAP government to uncomfortable truths about power dynamics. I have prepared some material for this before, you can view my thoughts on NOTLK in this thread. I specifically zoned into the credibility of the Rohm Putsch here, and concluded that it was credible.

You can read my thoughts here:

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=141

I did not say Adolf Hitler was trying to kill everyone on the planet. I am just pointing out in his National Socialist Worldview, subjugating or killing people considered inferior is not off the table.

There is a difference between a religious and a racial anti-semitism, which is not hard to see. Being able to switch religions to escape persecution is not nearly as bad as being pinned just because of your parents ethnic group.

The text of the image "Denn diese sind nur ein Wurf nach dem Menschen hin" translates to "Because these are only a throw towards man" (using google translate). So, Black and Asian people are only a throw towards man who supposedly do not hit the mark.

Their Japanese Allies should not have been surprised with an image demeaning an Asian man as not fully a man, considering Hitler's steadfast belief in Aryan/White Supremacy.

"If, from today onwards, the Aryan influence on Japan ceased—if Europe and America collapsed—then Japan’s present progress in science and technology might still last for a short while. But within a few decades, the inspiration would dry up, native Japanese character would flourish, and present civilization would become fossilized and fall back into the sleep from which it was aroused seven decades ago by Aryan culture. Therefore, just as present Japanese development is due to Aryan influence, so in the distant past, foreign influence and spirit awakened Japanese culture of that day."
Page 295 of Mein Kampf, Dalton Translation Volume 1.
https://archive.org/details/mein-kampf- ... 4/mode/2up


"This is already clear from a glance at the current world situation: We have a number of nations that, based on their innate, superior values, havércreated a way of life that bears no relation to the living space they inhabit in dense settlements. We have the so-called white race, which, since the collapse of antiquity, has secured a privileged position in the world for itself in the space of about a thousand years. However, I cannot understand the economically privileged position of the white race over the rest of the world unless I closely connect it with a political conception of mastery that has been inherent in the white race as something natural for many centuries and has been represented by it externally Take any single region, for example, India: England did not acquire India by right and order, but without regard for the wishes, opinions, or legal opinions of the natives, and maintained this rule, if necessary, with the most brutal ruthlessness. Just as Cortez or Bizarro once appropriated Centra. America and the northern states of South America not on the basis of any legal claims, but out of the absolute, innate sense of mastery of the white race. The settlement of the North American continent did not result from any higher legal claims according to democratic or international understanding"

Page 12 of Hitler, Adolf - Vortrag Hitlers vor westdeutschen Wirtschaftlern im Industrie-Klub zu Düsseldorf am 27. Januar 1932 (32S., Scan, Fraktur)
https://archive.org/details/HitlerAdolf ... 7/mode/2up

Incase anyone here considers themselves a National Socialist, do you agree that "Superior races" are right to dominate "Inferior" ones?

[ConfusedJew]

Is it ever OK to demonize anybody?

Hitler was very close friends with Ernst Rohm until his desire to merge the SA paramilitary with the Germany military under his leadership threatened the Nazi military elites.

During the Night of the Long Knives, Hitler ordered a purge of the SA and had his friend arrested and killed without trial.

Is having your close friend killed in order to gain power worth demonizing?

Fascinating question, I'm actually very interested in this topic, because NOTLK exposes the early NSDAP government to uncomfortable truths about power dynamics. I have prepared some material for this before, you can view my thoughts on NOTLK in this thread. I specifically zoned into the credibility of the Rohm Putsch here, and concluded that it was credible.

You can read my thoughts here:

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=141

So do you think it is acceptable to demonize somebody for having their close friend killed to gain or protect one's power?

I'm assuming that you don't believe in the Jewish genocide so I won't use that as an example but if he did attempt to genocide Jews, do you think that would make him worth demonizing?

Or do you just demonize the actions and not the person?

[Wetzelrad]

During the Night of the Long Knives, Hitler ordered a purge of the SA and had his friend arrested and killed without trial.

Is having your close friend killed in order to gain power worth demonizing?

This seems a strange reversal. Rohm was the one trying to gain power by demanding control over the army. Then Rohm tried to stage a coup, and for that he was executed. Although the betrayal of a close friend would have obviously stung, treason is still a capital offense.

[HansHill]

Wetzelrad is right: Rule of Law > Personal Friendships.

I showed you evidence of the Rohm Coup being legitimate and credible. I also showed you evidence of President Hindenburg threatening Martial Law if AH failed to act, and issuing a decree underscoring the legality of AH's actions. For your position to hold, you would need to argue it was the Rohm Coup was not credible, or Hindenburg was wrong. The floor is yours, I guess?

[ConfusedJew]

I'll have to look into it more closely.

But to my other question, do you think that hypothetically trying to exterminate the European Jewish population would be worth demonization?

If not, then why not? If not that, then is anything worth demonizing?

[HansHill]

I did not say Adolf Hitler was trying to kill everyone on the planet. I am just pointing out in his National Socialist Worldview, subjugating or killing people considered inferior is not off the table.

This is a sizeable walkbalk from positively asserting that extermination other races was explicit in AH's words, walked all the way down to it was implicitly "not off the table" (whatever that means) if you strain your eyes through this choice of distorted quotations. Of course none of this has been demonstrated whatsoever thus far, and I feel like your walkback reflects how tentative your assertions actually are.

There is a difference between a religious and a racial anti-semitism, which is not hard to see. Being able to switch religions to escape persecution is not nearly as bad as being pinned just because of your parents ethnic group.

Fluff. Although I do agree with you there are different levels of anti-semitism, from religious to political, attempting to assert a position like this to people engaged in actual ethnic conflict, for example during The Troubles in Northern Ireland or the current conflict in Gaza (just convert, bro!) would get you either i) laughed out of the room or ii) hurt. You yet again are misunderstanding the entirety of ethnic conflict since human record-keeping began. Would your advice to the Israelis be to "just convert to Islam" and that will solve everything in the middle east? Would they be friendly to you if you suggested that?

The text of the image "Denn diese sind nur ein Wurf nach dem Menschen hin" translates to "Because these are only a throw towards man" (using google translate). So, Black and Asian people are only a throw towards man who supposedly do not hit the mark.

Their Japanese Allies should not have been surprised with an image demeaning an Asian man as not fully a man, considering Hitler's steadfast belief in Aryan/White Supremacy.

"If, from today onwards, the Aryan influence on Japan ceased—if Europe and America collapsed—then Japan’s present progress in science and technology might still last for a short while. But within a few decades, the inspiration would dry up, native Japanese character would flourish, and present civilization would become fossilized and fall back into the sleep from which it was aroused seven decades ago by Aryan culture. Therefore, just as present Japanese development is due to Aryan influence, so in the distant past, foreign influence and spirit awakened Japanese culture of that day."
Page 295 of Mein Kampf, Dalton Translation Volume 1.
https://archive.org/details/mein-kampf- ... 4/mode/2up

Very strange choice of passage here - I assume you don't know what he is talking about, so I will teach you: Here he is referring to the Meiji Restoration, where beginning in the 1860s (approx 7 decades prior to Mein Kampf, as in the passage you quoted) the Japanese elite began to seek out Western technology, Western ideas, Western politics, Western institutions, and Western economic practices.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Restoration

This was a very contentious time for Japanese society, with many elements rejecting this Westernisation, concerned about their loss of identity, and attempting to return to a more traditionally Japanese culture. These people would agree perfectly with Adolf Hitler here, that Western influence was not natural, or welcomed in Japan, as it was causing a loss of Japanese identity. Because of this, there were many attempts to prevent this Westernisation, and to overthrow the new government and revert back to a more traditional Japanese set of values.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsuma_Rebellion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shizoku
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_Rebellion

Everything in the passage you quoted, was known and understood at the time in light of everything I have told you above, and there is nothing controversial about any of this.

"This is already clear from a glance at the current world situation: We have a number of nations that, based on their innate, superior values, havércreated a way of life that bears no relation to the living space they inhabit in dense settlements. We have the so-called white race, which, since the collapse of antiquity, has secured a privileged position in the world for itself in the space of about a thousand years. However, I cannot understand the economically privileged position of the white race over the rest of the world unless I closely connect it with a political conception of mastery that has been inherent in the white race as something natural for many centuries and has been represented by it externally Take any single region, for example, India: England did not acquire India by right and order, but without regard for the wishes, opinions, or legal opinions of the natives, and maintained this rule, if necessary, with the most brutal ruthlessness. Just as Cortez or Bizarro once appropriated Centra. America and the northern states of South America not on the basis of any legal claims, but out of the absolute, innate sense of mastery of the white race. The settlement of the North American continent did not result from any higher legal claims according to democratic or international understanding"

Page 12 of Hitler, Adolf - Vortrag Hitlers vor westdeutschen Wirtschaftlern im Industrie-Klub zu Düsseldorf am 27. Januar 1932 (32S., Scan, Fraktur)
https://archive.org/details/HitlerAdolf ... 7/mode/2up

Incase anyone here considers themselves a National Socialist, do you agree that "Superior races" are right to dominate "Inferior" ones?

Another bizarre argument, and I am seriously questioning whether you even know what you are talking about. You are posting in a thread about the "Demonisation of Adolf Hitler", and the argument you are using to support this demonisation is.... British and Spanish Colonialism?

If i strain really really hard, I can almost perceive you as having a somewhat credible critique of European Colonialism, and you have chosen the NSDAP as a vehicle for your grievance against the European Colonialism. Absolutely bizarre stuff. I'm not really expecting you to post anything more of interest so feel free to re-read my posts as many times as you like. I also note you have not answered Archie's questions.

[HansHill]

I'll have to look into it more closely.

But to my other question, do you think that hypothetically trying to exterminate the European Jewish population would be worth demonization?

If not, then why not? If not that, then is anything worth demonizing?

You have gone from a really fascinating question, one full of political machinations, and intrigue, to a really really dull question.

Sigh. Are you expecting me to say murdering whole races of people is good?

[ConfusedJew]

I'll have to look into it more closely.

But to my other question, do you think that hypothetically trying to exterminate the European Jewish population would be worth demonization?

If not, then why not? If not that, then is anything worth demonizing?

You have gone from a really fascinating question, one full of political machinations, and intrigue, to a really really dull question.

Sigh. Are you expecting me to say murdering whole races of people is good?

No, I don't know what you will say which is why I'm asking the question. People on here don't believe that the Holocaust happened and seem to think that Hitler was a great man, or something, so I'm trying to figure out what the moral code is of this place. I'm confused remember and I'm just trying to find a little clarity.

Like many of you guys don't think the Holocaust happened which is kind of weird because I have a lot of family that was killed in the Holocaust. So I'm trying to figure out if you actually believe that it didn't happen but it would be a terrible thing if it did or something else is going on.

Stubble said that he has "judenhass" in another thread so is it so bad that he would be OK with the Holocaust if it did happen or what?

[HansHill]

I'll have to look into it more closely.

But to my other question, do you think that hypothetically trying to exterminate the European Jewish population would be worth demonization?

If not, then why not? If not that, then is anything worth demonizing?

You have gone from a really fascinating question, one full of political machinations, and intrigue, to a really really dull question.

Sigh. Are you expecting me to say murdering whole races of people is good?

No, I don't know what you will say which is why I'm asking the question. People on here don't believe that the Holocaust happened and seem to think that Hitler was a great man, or something, so I'm trying to figure out what the moral code is of this place. I'm confused remember and I'm just trying to find a little clarity.

If you're being genuine then fair enough.

While I can't speak for everyone, the standard of Holocaust Denial / Revisionism on display here is of a generally higher level than lets say, Twitter for example. On Twitter you will find posters making very different arguments, for example about the 6 million cookies or the wooden doors. We are (for the most part) above arguments of that kind.

Again being cautious that i cannot possibly speak for everyone, you will likely find the consensus here that the Holocaust was not:

- Possible,
- Desirable, or
- Necessary

[ConfusedJew]

If you're being genuine then fair enough.

While I can't speak for everyone, the standard of Holocaust Denial / Revisionism on display here is of a generally higher level than lets say, Twitter for example. On Twitter you will find posters making very different arguments, for example about the 6 million cookies or the wooden doors. We are (for the most part) above arguments of that kind.

Again being cautious that i cannot possibly speak for everyone, you will likely find the consensus here that the Holocaust was not:

- Possible,
- Desirable, or
- Necessary

The majority of people on Twitter, especially Dan Bilzerian or Jake Shield or Nick Fuentes, seem to be motivated by racial hatred of Jews and will say whatever they possibly can to cause pain to Jews regardless of whether or not it is true or that they even believe it to be true.

I would speculate that there's quite a bit of that here too but I will have to figure that out.

I'm honestly just curious why people believe all of this stuff and else they might see the world.

[Stubble]

You seem confused, it is not about causing pain, it is about exposure of real and pressing issues with regard to jewry.

[ConfusedJew]

You seem confused, it is not about causing pain, it is about exposure of real and pressing issues with regard to jewry.

This is off topic but feel free to open a new thread on that if you like.