Callafangers wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 8:32 am
Nessie wrote:The term Holocaust revisionist is the preferred descriptive on this forum, but denier is more accurate. If they were revisionists, they would be revising the mass killing of the millions of Jews arrested 1939-44, to what happened to them and where they were in 1944. But, as we all know, there is no evidence of millions of Jews still in the camps and ghetto that the Nazis built 1939-44. Accommodating and guarding such huge numbers of people would have left a lot of evidence.
What you will find is that the so-called revisionists do a little chronological skip, ignoring 1944 and jumping to 1945, to claim that the Jews went where they went. They just dispersed around the world, again, somehow, leaving very little evidence.
Your tired insistence on the term 'denier' is semantic buffoonery meant at dodging the core issue: you're claiming a 'mass killing' of millions, yet you can't produce the physical evidence -- mass graves, cremation logistics, or verifiable orders -- remotely commensurate with such a scale.
You are deflecting when you claim I lack evidence. There is a ton of evidence that Jews were identified, registered, arrested and sent to camps and ghettos 1939-44.
There are huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains at the AR camps and Chelmno, which corroborate witnesses to gassings, mass graves and pyres. Just because you find the way the pyres were set to be unbelievable, does not therefore mean they did not happen.
The burden of proof remains on you to substantiate this extraordinary claim, not on us to disprove it.
But that is exactly what you are trying to do, with your arguments about the physical impossibility of gassings, graves and cremations.
Meanwhile, you deflect from your burden of proof, to evidence the gassings etc did not happen, using eyewitnesses, documents, physical and other evidence. You cannot do that, which is why you resort to argument.
Your assertion that 'there is no evidence of millions of Jews still in camps in 1944' is partly a strawman; revisionists don’t claim they necessarily remained static in camps en masse. Wartime chaos, forced migrations, and Soviet control over Eastern territories easily obscure visibility of population movements.
If millions of Jews arrested by the Nazis, from Norway to Greece, Estonia to France, and sent to camps and ghettos 1939 to 1944, were not killed, then there must have been an enormous camp and ghetto system packed full of millions of Jews in 1944. Or, evidence the Nazis were also releasing millions of Jews during that period.
Where is that evidence? Where are your eyewitnesses, in particular the Nazis responsible for the guarding, or releasing, so many Jews? Where are the documents recording such a huge undertaking? Why, instead, does the documentary record for millions of those arrested Jews end at a few specific camps? There is a ton of evidence of the arrest and transportation of Dutch Jews to Sobibor in 1943 and Hungarian Jews to Birkenau in 1944, and then the vast majority disappear. You have no evidence of hundreds of thousands of Dutch or Hungarian Jews in any camp or ghetto in 1944.
Your 'chronological skip' accusation is nonsense. We don’t ignore 1944; we challenge the leap from 'arrests and deportations' to 'mass murder.' Deportations are documented -- often to labor camps or transit points. What’s missing is proof of systematic extermination (your claim) at the destinations you allege. Your narrative conveniently skips over any form of hard evidence, relying on inferences from reported population drops without addressing the myriad ways data can be manipulated or lost in a war-torn, Soviet-controlled landscape.
The evidence that a few specific camps were used to murder millions of Jews comes from eyewitnesses, documents, the physical remains at those places and the circumstantial evidence around their operation. There is also evidence of motive and opportunity. There is no chronological gap in the historical evidence. The majority of the evidence for mass killings, comes from German sources and you are lying that historians rely on inferences.
By 1944, all the countries occupied by or aligned to the Nazis, except Denmark and Finland, recorded drops in their Jewish populations. None deny that those drops were caused either by handing over the Jews to be transported away by the Nazis, or they were shot by their fellow citizens... If you want to make the so-called revisionist really uncomfortable, concentrate on 1944. How was it faked across Europe, with the cooperation of so many countries, that millions had been arrested, imprisoned in camps and ghettos, and killed 1939-44?
Again, you equate 'population drops' with 'mass murder'
without evidence. [/quote]
More lying. There is evidence of mass murder. You are again deflecting from your lack of evidence of millions still alive in 1944.
Yes, Jews were arrested, deported, and in some cases killed -- nobody disputes localized killings or harsh conditions leading to deaths. But the jump to a coordinated genocide of millions via 'gas chambers' or endless shootings lacks any forensic support.
Lie. There is forensic evidence of the use of gas chambers inside the Kremas and huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains at the AR camps and Chelmno.
You mention 1944 as some gotcha, but where are the mass graves or cremation traces from that year matching your numbers? Hungary’s late deportations and Lodz’s closure are not proof of gas chambers at Birkenau; they’re proof of movement, which we acknowledge.
A movement that ends at those places. You then fail to evidence further movement. All that movement ends in 1944. The ghettos are now all closed. Where were all those millions of Jews you say hd not been killed?
Your challenge about 'fakery across Europe' is a red herring -- revisionists don’t claim a grand conspiracy of fakery in arrests, only that the outcome (extermination) isn’t proven. Post-war narratives, shaped by victors justice and meant to vilify Germany, easily coalesced around unverified assumptions of death rather than dispersal or obscurity under Soviet control.
Every country, from Norway to France, to Greece and Estonia, admits to their varying roles in assisting the Nazis with the arrest, imprisonment and even killing of their Jewish citizens. You ignore that those countries accept some of that vilification themselves. It was not just the Nazis. Romania and Serbia were responsible for their own Holocausts. Latvia and Lithuania actively assisted the Nazis. Why do you ignore them?
If you’re so confident in 1944 as your linchpin, show us the physical evidence. Until then, your argument is just more circular reasoning -- assuming the conclusion you’re meant to prove.
You have been shown the physical evidence of the gas chambers and mass killing sites, or what can be shown after Nazi attempts to destroy as much of that evidence as possible.
Now, explain your lack of physical evidence of camps and ghettos in 1944, to accommodate millions of arrested Jews.
