Truth about Jewish Expulsions

[Stubble]

But the real reason that Jews have been persecuted for millennia is that they refused to convert to a religion that they did not believe was true.

Are you a Christian or religious in any way? If somebody tried to force you to convert to their religion and you didn't believe in it, what would you do? Would you just reluctantly submit to stay out of trouble? What if you had very strong convictions in your belief system?

If somebody threatened to physically hurt you unless you publicly proclaimed that the Holocaust was real, would you do it?

Tell that to Sabbatai Zevi.

He had no problem with conversion, as did many others, because conversion to a jew is nothing.

[ConfusedJew]

Tell that to Sabbiti Zevi.

He had no problem with conversion, as did many others, because conversion to a jew is nothing.

A small number of Jews have converted over the years but not many. If Jewish people were very susceptible to adopting other people's beliefs or just going with the flow, they wouldn't exist today.

There's a certain stubbornness that is required and encouraged to be a Jew, for somewhat self evident reasons, but it is what it is.

Shabtai Tzvi was considered a heretical Jew, by today's standards, and may have even suffered mental illness.

But you still didn't answer my question.

[Stubble]

If somebody threatened to physically hurt you unless you publicly proclaimed that the Holocaust was real, would you do it?

>no<

[ConfusedJew]

If somebody threatened to physically hurt you unless you publicly proclaimed that the Holocaust was real, would you do it?

>no<

OK, so I guess you then understand why the Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. They held different beliefs than the prevailing regimes and didn't want to adopt a belief system that they didn't agree with.

[Stubble]

Also no.

I suppose the first thing I should mention is the false equivalency.

[HansHill]

If somebody threatened to physically hurt you unless you publicly proclaimed that the Holocaust was real, would you do it?

>no<

OK, so I guess you then understand why the Jews have been persecuted for thousands of years. They held different beliefs than the prevailing regimes and didn't want to adopt a belief system that they didn't agree with.

Ridiculous oversimplification of Jewish persecution. We have a thread somewhere discussing it - you'll know you're in the right one because one of your co-ethnics wished death upon me for discussing it.

[ConfusedJew]

Also no.

I suppose the first thing I should mention is the false equivalency.

How is that not equivalent? If you disagree with the comparison, feel free to argue specifics about why it's different.

[Stubble]

Is jewish culture contingent upon and absolutely defined by a single event?

Are jews routinely beaten and pogromed for being jewish in their eruv?

This is a ridiculous false equivalency.

[Wahrheitssucher]

…the real reason that Jews have been persecuted for millennia is that they refused to convert to a religion that they did not believe was true.

The above is a blatantly false claim. So I agree it was a ludicrously false equivalence.

Confused Jew appears to be either attempting to pass off a deception. Either that or this is an example of considerable ignorance plus self-deception.

Jews have been expelled about 1030 times from numerous countries and in most cases the reason given was because of their collective behaviour.

Just taking the example of their expulsion from Germany, France, Italy, Hungary, Poland, etc., during WW2 demonstrates the falisty of the confused Jew’s statement. No person who believed and practiced Judaism was asked during WW2 to “convert to a religion”. Nor was a single person arrested and sent to concentration camps in Poland because they “refused to convert to a religion that they did not believe was true”.

Below are a few of the expulsions with the given reasons by those expelling them.

. 1,200 B.C. - Egypt
Jews expelled for causing various seditions/rebellions throughout Egypt, including helping the Hyksos gain and maintain power. Source: Egyptian historian Apion (1st Century B.C.), who the Jewish historian Josephus wrote an entire book about called ‘Against Apion’ attempting to discredit him and what he regarded as his unwelcome historical evidence.

586 OR 597 B.C. - Babylon/Judah
Jews were expelled by Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon for refusing to pay tribute Source: Michael Coogan, ‘A Brief Introduction to the Old Testament’, 2009.

139 B.C. - Rome
Jews were expelled by Gnaeus Cornelius Hispanus for attempting to corrupt Romans into religious cults, and for cheating people out of money.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 128.

30 A.D. and 40 A.D. - Adiabene, Armenia, Batanaea, Nehardea, and Ctesiphon.
Jews were expelled (after his death) because they backed the unpopular ruler Artabanus III financially and militarily.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 415.

49 A.D. - Rome, Italy
Jews were expelled by Emperor Claudius for “always rioting”.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 210.

66 A.D. - Alexandria, Egypt
Jews were expelled (+50,000 killed) after Jews try to set fire to the Greek amphitheater.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 365-366.

66 A.D. - Caesarea
Jews were expelled (+20,000 Jews) killed by Roman procurator Felix after Jews attempted to physically take over the city shouting “Jews take precedence over Greeks” and “the city is ours”.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 285-286, 295, 357.

72 A.D. - Alexandria, Egypt
Jews were expelled (+600 massacred) for allying with Sicari from Palestine in revolt against Alexandrian prefect Tiberius Julius Lupus.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 366.

73 A.D. - Cyrenaica
Jews were expelled (3,000 Killed) after Sicari from Palestine enlist wealthy Jews in Cyrene to rebel against Rome.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 369-370.

255 A.D. - Cappadocia
Jews were expelled (12,000 killed) by Persian King Shapur for conspiring with Rome against Persia.
Source: E. Mary Smallwood, ‘The Jews Under Roman Rule: From Pompey To Diocletian’, p. 509.

400-410 A.D. - Tella, Byzantine Empire
Some Jews were executed after they attempted to betray a city to the Persians during the Roman-Persian War; these Jews had actually dug a tunnel starting in their synagogue under the city walls which the Persians used to breach the city of Tella, near Edessa.
Source: James Parkes, ‘The Conflict Of The Church and The Synagogue’, p. 257-258).

527-565 A.D. - Byzantine Empire
Jews were expelled (and massacred by the thousands) after they had revolted and attempted to set up their own state and king; all synagogues and Jewish houses were burned to the ground by Byzantine Emporer Justinian I.
Source: James Parkes, ‘The Conflict of The Church and The Synagogue’, p. 258-259.

567-578 A.D. - Ceasarea, Byzantine Empire
Jews massacre Christians and destroy churches; Byzantine Emporer Justin II put down their revolt and expelled the Jewish leaders of the uprising.
Source: James Parkes, ‘The Conflict of The Church and The Synagogue’, p. 259.

590 A.D. - Antioch, Syria
Jews Expelled by Byzantines for insulting image of Mary.
Source: Salo Baron, ‘Social and Religious History of the Jews, Volume 2: Ancient Times to the Beginning of the Christian Era: The First Five Centuries’, 1952.

602-610 A.D. - Mesopotamia
Jews partially expelled for plotting a great massacre of Christians and destruction of churches.
Source: James Parkes, ‘The Conflict of The Church and The Synagogue’, p. 259.

629 A.D. - Jerusalem
Jews were expelled by Byzantine Emperor Heraclius I after he retook Jerusalem. Upon his approach, Jews offered to pay him to guarantee their safety, but upon entering the city and seeing the number of Christians that the Jews had killed, he withdrew his promise, executed many of them, and expelled the remainder.
Source: James Parkes, ‘The Conflict of The Church and The Synagogue’, p. 261.

642 A.D. - Visigoth Empire
Expelled for aiding influential Goths who had revolted.
Source: Bernard S. Bachrach, ‘Early Medieval Jewish Policy in Western Europe’, p. 14.

653 A.D. - Toledo, Spain
Expelled by King Reccesuinth for “polluting the soil of Spain” after Eighth Council of Toledo.
Source: Bernard S. Bachrach, ‘Early Medieval Jewish Policy in Western Europe’, p. 15.

672 A.D. - Spain
Expelled by King Wamba after Jews initiate revolt in Septimania.
Source: Bernard S. Bachrach, ‘Early Medieval Jewish Policy in Western Europe’, p. 18.

820 A.D. - Lyon, France
Expelled/ Killed by Saint Agobard for owning/selling Christian slaves.
Source: Bernard S. Bachrach, ‘Early Medieval Jewish Policy in Western Europe’, p. 98-102.

1113 A.D. - Russia
Expelled by Prince Vladimir Monomakh.
Source: https:// www.rusjournal.org/ wpcontent/ uploads/ 2016/02/Monomax_Jews. pdf).

1113 A.D. - Syracuse, Italy
Expelled after crucifying a ram in mockery of Christ (C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 83).

1125 A.D. - Belgium
Expelled. Source: B. Booker, ‘The Lie’, Chapter 4.

1130-1135 A.D. - Genoa, Italy
Expelled due to Jewish merchant activity.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 74.

1147 A.D. - Bavaria, Germany.
Expelled. Source: James F. Harris, ‘The People Speak: Anti-Semitism and Emancipation in 19th Century Bavaria’, p. 13.

1156 A.D. - Lanciano, the Abruzzo, Italy.
Expelled by the leader after a successful revolt against those in power.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 81.

1171 A.D. - Bologna, Italy
Expelled. Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 126.

1189-1190 A.D. - Bury St. Edmunds, England
Expelled by William the Scaristan for Ritual Murder of a Christian child.
Source: C. Roth, ‘A History of the Marranos’, p. 16.

Throughout the 13th century Jews were expelled right across Europe and it was NEVER because they refused to convert to Christianity or Islam. Muslim rulers had for centuries protected them.

1278 A.D. - Sicily, Italy
Expelled after Abraham Abulafia declares himself the “Messiah”.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 151.

1278 A.D. - Cremona, Italy
Expelled after Bianca Sforza is petitioned by citizens.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 126.

1278 A.D. - Numerous small Towns in England
Expelled for Coin-Clipping.
Source: Zefira Entin Rokeah, ‘Medieval English Jews and Royal Officials: Entries of Jewish Interest in the English Memoranda Rolls, 1266-1293’.

1290-1292 A.D. - Apulia, Italy (and other towns)
Expelled for the ritual murder of a Christian child.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 100.

1293-1294 A.D. - Berne, Switzerland.
Expelled for Ritual Murder.
Source: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/berne.

1294 A.D. - Nevers, France.
Expelled. Source: R. Rist, ‘Popes and Jews’, 1095-1291.

1298 A.D. - Rindfleisch, Germany
Expelled after a ritual murder and then a jewish rebellion after the murder charges.
Source: Bell and Burnett, ‘Jews, Judaism, and The Reformation In Sixteenth Century Germany’, p. 34.

1321 A.D. - Small Town in France
Expelled by King Phillip V for Ritual Murder of another Christian child.
Source: Joshua Johnson, ‘The Evil Bible’.

1327 A.D. - Iglasias, Italy
Expelled due to medical/financial malpractice.
Source: C. Roth, ‘The History of the Jews of Italy’, p. 263.

The list goes on and on. The practice of coin-clipping by jews is why coins had to be made with ridges.
The accusations of deception, treachery and cheating have followed jews wherever they go, in almost every century. It was credible evidence of this and Jewish cabals defrauding, enslaving, cheating. plotting and corrupting political and social fabrics was the cause of the progroms and expulsions in Czarist Russia in the 19th century.
The accusations of weird jewish ritual murder where victims were found with numerous cuts and drained of all blood while alive continued right up to the last century. Jews of European origin even to this very day take pleasure in injuring people and then letting them consciously and slowly bleed to death by preventing ambulances from getting to them. The occurrences of this peculiar form of torture are legion. But mention of this will be met with claims of ‘blood libel’ and deceitful posing as victims of irrational prejudice.

The deceit that any of the above and many, many other expulsions was due to refusing forced conversion is an extremely bizarre and peculiar self-justifying self-deception.

[ConfusedJew]

Is jewish culture contingent upon and absolutely defined by a single event?

Are jews routinely beaten and pogromed for being jewish in their eruv?

This is a ridiculous false equivalency.

They have been routinely murdered and abused for not accepting Jesus. It is maybe not the only source, but it is the largest source throughout history.

In the early church period (1st–4th century CE), Church Fathers argued that Jews were spiritually blind for rejecting Jesus. They were portrayed as collectively responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus (decide), socially ostracized, and condemned.

During the the Middle Ages, the Church engaged in forced conversions and murders, especially during the Crusades. Jews in parts of Europe were given the choice to convert to Christianity, face violence or expulsion.

There were blood libel accusations that the Jews killed Christian children for ritual purposes which led to massacres and pogroms.

In the Inquisition of the 15th to 17th centuries, even when Jews did convert to Christianity, Conversos were investigated and punished if suspected of secretly practicing Judaism. They were tortured and executed.

Jews were confined to ghettos in parts of Europe and denied political rights. Martin Luther was initially sympathetic to the Jews, later wrote hateful tracts when he was unable to convert them to Christianity.

Even as the Enlightenment began to promote religious tolerance, antisemitic attitudes tied to Jewish rejection of Jesus persisted in some Christian circles.

In Eastern Europe, pogroms often included religious justifications, portraying Jews as enemies of Christ.

Even Nazi propaganda exploited Christian antisemitism, despite Nazi ideology not being Christian in nature.

Only fairly recently, did the Catholic Church begin to be more accepting of Jews. The Catholic Church’s Second Vatican Council (1965) document Nostra Aetate formally rejected collective Jewish guilt for the death of Jesus and condemned antisemitism.

[Stubble]

The 'jesus killed the jews' bit, eh?

What has jesus to do with the clipping of coins or with the child saints?

[Wahrheitssucher]

I assert the facts,

1) they were and continue to be jews. This should not be in dispute.

2) they were expelled, after all, your cope is that the legal system prosecuted the mayor 3 years after the fact.

3) this group of jews fucks kids. They fucked kids in Canada, they fucked kids in Mexico and they were fucking kids in Guatemala all the way up to last year. They have a history of child sexual abuse.

Perhaps I should have used the words 'these jews' and if you think that has lead to some kind of misframing of the situation on my part, that's your prerogative. The facts still remain.

Now, I really don't think this is the thread to go in to sexual proclivities of people inside the jewish culture and I can only think that such a discussion would merely lead to further animus between you and I.

If you would like to talk about Romanian orphans etc, we can do that, but, it is not a pretty subject and conversation is likely to rapidly become toxic. Furthermore it merits it's own thread.

…Where did these beliefs come from?

There are no unusual sexual proclivities inside of Jewish culture. Sure there will be some Jews with strange sexual proclivities, but they are certainly the exception rather than the norm. Just like any other religious group.

That also is an obviously false statement.

To take just one example, Jews overwhelmingly have run pornography businesses in numerous countries for over a century.

E.g. Solomon Friedman is the new owner of PornHub. He is a Jewish attorney and a rabbi.

Top Jewish pornographer admits Jews have controlled the Porn Industry from its very beginnings | August 20, 2019
https://christiansfortruth.com/top-jewi ... eginnings/

In Israel, pornography, rape incest and paedeophilia is apparently endemic.
Here are three reports, one a Jewish-Israeli source:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/photo ... tes-604876

https://beeley.substack.com/p/israel-gi ... ceremonies

https://beeley.substack.com/p/israels-c ... -and-child

There are numerous statements purportedly coming from Jewish porm moguls themselves stating that Jews deliberately go into pornography as a means to "pollute" Christian culture. E.g. “When [Jewish porn producer Al Goldstein] was asked why the Jews dominate the porn industry, he said: 'The only reason that the Jews play a role in the porn industry is that we hate Christ”.

Then there are facts such as the Talmud permitting Jews to engage in sexual intercourse with babies under the age of three. If that isn’t a “strange sexual proclivity” what do you call it?

Even Israeli news-outlets are reporting how jewish paedophiles seek sanctuary in Israel:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/with-pedo ... tect-kids/

https://www.humanium.org/en/exposing-pe ... in-israel/

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-jewish ... in-israel/

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-741881

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/tens- ... ear-637393

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 7f5a370000

Then there is Jeffrey Epstein and the Zionist Israeli-funded child-prostitution empire, and blackmail racket.

So two questions for Confused Jew:
1. do you regard a preoccupation with industrialising and profiting from pornography, permitting and encouraging paedophilia, rape and incest as “unusual sexual proclivity”?

2. Do you deny these reports of these being over-represented in Jewish society?

[ConfusedJew]

…the real reason that Jews have been persecuted for millennia is that they refused to convert to a religion that they did not believe was true.

The above is a blatantly false claim. So I agree it was a ludicrously false equivalence.

Confused Jew appears to be either attempting to pass off a deception. Either that or this is an example of considerable ignorance plus self-deception.

Jews have been expelled from about 1030 countries and in most cases the reason given was because of their collective behaviour.

Just taking the example of their expulsion from Germany, France, Italy, Hungary, Poland, etc., during WW2 demonstrates the falisty of the confused Jew’s statement. No person who believed and practiced Judaism was asked during WW2 to “convert to a religion”. Nor was a single person arrested and sent to concentration camps in Poland because they “refused to convert to a religion that they did not believe was true”.

The list goes on and on. The practice of coin-clipping by jews is why coins had to be made with ridges.
The accusations of deception, treachery and cheating have followed jews wherever they go, in almost every century. It was credible evidence of this and Jewish cabals defrauding, enslaving, cheating. plotting and corrupting political and social fabrics was the cause of the progroms and expulsions in Czarist Russia in the 19th century.
The accusations of weird jewish ritual murder where victims were found with numerous cuts and drained of all blood while alive continued right up to the last century. Jews of European origin even to this very day take pleasure in injuring people and then letting them consciously and slowly bleed to death by preventing ambulances from getting to them. The occurrences of this peculiar form of torture are legion. But mention of this will be met with claims of ‘blood libel’ and deceitful posing as victims of irrational prejudice.

The deceit that any of the above and many, many other expulsions was due to refusing forced conversion is an extremely bizarre and peculiar self-justifying self-deception.

I can tell that you're getting very emotional here so I suggest that you simply use logic and facts to respond without resorting to emotional language like "blatantly false". It isn't, first of it, but I suggest you simply rely on cold hard facts and logic because even then, regardless of my intentions, you can debunk any false claims. I assure you that you are falsely ascribing intentions to me that don't exist but it doesn't matter because if you are right and can back up your arguments clearly and concisely then the truth will be discovered.

Jews have not been expelled from 1,030 countries. There are not 1,030 countries today, and countries are a fairly recent development of the past few hundred years. Please be accurate and precise in your claims and then we can get to the bottom of this. If what you say is true, there is no need to exaggerate or get emotional. Precision and accuracy will only help you.

When you said that “No person who believed and practiced Judaism was asked during WW2 to convert to a religion”, you are arguing a red herring. The Nazi persecution was racial, not religious. Jews were targeted regardless of belief or practice. Converts to Christianity, secular Jews, and even people with only one Jewish grandparent were persecuted and murdered. That doesn’t disprove that Jews were historically persecuted for religious reasons—it proves that antisemitism has mutated over time (from religious to racial). The concept of race and race science really came into existence in the 1700s during European expansionism, but anti semitism and persecution of the Jews existed long before that.

Your long list of expulsions is either factually inaccurate, but in cases where it is, it cherry picks incidents where ruling powers using claims of sedition, economic manipulation, or sacrilege to harm or murder Jews. These rationalizations were often pretexts, not actually true.

I suggest that we pick that apart in more detail later but for now let's continuing discussing whether refusal to accept Jesus was a large source of Jewish persecution. I'm not saying that it was the only reason, but it was the biggest reason throughout history.

You believe that the blood libel claims were true. That is worth a separate thread. I don't think this was true in any single case, let alone all of them. Even if they were true, which I still reject, then it still wouldn't warrant punishing a group of people. Would you think it was fair to be violently punished if your mom or sister was caught stealing?

Beyond persecution for not accepting Jesus, Jews were also scapegoated during plagues, economic crises, and wars. There was also envy that Jews were wealthy because they were forced into moneylending since other professions were closed off to them. Do you think that they shouldn't have been allowed to own land just because they were Jewish?

[Stubble]

Confused, you seem confused.

https://odysee.com/@EduardoCorrochio:4/jewsinporn:f

The role of jews in the porn industry should not be ignored.

The involvement of various jewish organizations I. Child sex trafficking should not be ignored.

Now, I will say, this new fellow is not properly highlighting the involvement of Israel specifically in child sex slavery and in organ trafficking. It's ok though, not everyone reads Jerusalem Post or JTA.

[ConfusedJew]

Throughout history, especially in Christian Europe, Jews were systematically restricted from many professions and denied political rights due to religious prejudice and social scapegoating.

Jews were not allowed to own land or farm during most of medieval Europe because they were seen as outsiders so they were pushed into urban occupations. To this day, you still see Jews mostly living in urban areas.

Jews were also excluded from craft guilds which controlled skill trades like blacksmithing, carpentry, and masonry. The guilds often had religious components like Christian oaths and saint worship so they barred non-Christians from joining.

Jews were often forbidden from serving in military, public office, or the judiciary because they were assumed to be politically disloyal due to religious differences.

Jews were barred from most universities until the 1800s and even then, they often could not teach, earn degrees, or hold academic positions.

Some areas did allow Jews to practice medicine, especially as physicians to royalty, but they were sometimes banned, especially from treating Christians.

Jews were pushed into other professions in which they become disproportionately represented. The Church banned Christians from charging interest (usury), so Jewish lenders filled the economic niche. Even though they had little choice in the matter, they were later vilified as greedy or exploitative which created lasting antisemitic stereotypes.

Some monarchs used Jews as tax collectors, financiers, or middlemen which made them dependent on royal protection. However it made them easy targets when kings defaulted or political winds changed. They also often became merchants, importers/exporters, or peddlers.

After the 16th century, Jews were forced to live in ghettos which were locked at night and often became overcrowded. They were also forced to wear pointed hats and yellow badges to distinguish them from the Christian populations beginning in 1215.

Jews were often banned from owning homes or real estate.

Many courts did not allow Jewish testimony against Christians to be admissible. This prevented them from being able to legally defend themselves in disputes with non Jews.

They were forbidden from proselytizing and sometimes barred from building new synagogues, or even repairing old ones.

They often required special travel passes or permits to move around.

Jews were also barred from owning horses or weapons in many places.

Motivation Behind the Restrictions

The motivations behind these prohibitions were often religiously based as Christians blamed Jews for not accepting Jesus. They often tried to forcefully convert Jews.

Other times, Jews were scapegoated for financial hardships. Rulers who borrowed money would often expel Jews to avoid repayment.