Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Bringing some objectivity to the history of the Chosen People
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 10:33 pm Oh dear. Another denial of contrary evidence. It is now clear to me that you are a delusional person who can not respond intelligently or honestly to rival points of view.
E.g. I have never stated that I think “collective punishment or even judgment of innocent people is acceptable”. So that’s an insulting and another deliberately demeaning misrepresentation.
Your logic is weak. You did not explicitly state that but it was an implied assumption based on what you said. I asked you a question to get at that implied assumption and you dodged it.

If you think that any of the expulsions were logical, then you are condoning collective punishment. Why do you ever think it would be justifiable to expel a single human from a country or society, let alone an entire group?

Do you think every single one of the Jewish expulsions were justified or were they all irrational?
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

Stubble wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:14 pm 1) direct expulsion from England in 1290 for coin clipping.
OK that's fine. Based on my research, there is some archaeological evidence that coin clipping did occur amongst a small group of both Jews and Christians.

The coin clipping scandal of 1278–1279 led to the arrest of more than 100 Christians and over 250 Jews. So it was not solely a Jewish phenomenon. Some confessions were obtained—but many under duress, torture, or threat of death.

But at the time, the Crown was deeply indebted to Jewish moneylenders. Arresting and executing them, then seizing their property, benefited the king financially. Though both Jews and Christians clipped coins, Jews were disproportionately arrested and punished. Over 100 Jews were executed, while Christian punishments were often more lenient. Trials lacked due process by modern standards. Torture and coerced confessions were common. Blood libels and antisemitic propaganda were rampant during this period. Coin clipping accusations fit into a broader pattern of demonizing Jews with fabricated or exaggerated charges.

So based on this example, I have a few follow up questions for you.

1. Do you think Jews and Christians or all humans should get the same punishments for committing the same crime?

2. Do you think that all trials back then, or even today, are completely accurate in their judgments? For example, if somebody confesses while you are torturing them, is that a credible or valid confession?

3. Let's say all 250 Jews that were accused of coin clipping actually did it, I would say that's most definitely not true but I'm being generous here. Do you think it is justifiable to expel all 3,000 Jews living in England if 10% of them do something that is wrong and that isn't even a violent or sexual crime?
2) see previous posts.
This is an example of me being bombarded. This thread is about Medieval anti-semitism and expulsions which has nothing to do about sexual behaviors. You are also telling me to go back through this thread and reference an old post. Let's just put this discussion in another thread so we can keep things organized better. I will address this subject there if you would like to create one.
3) countersemetism does not stem from the rejection of jesus unless you believe that rejection led to the destruction of the second temple and expulsion from Palestine.
This is a non sequitur to me. The Jews were occupied by Rome and expelled for an uprising. Later on after the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church filled the power vacuum and the Catholics persecuted Jews for not accepting Jesus.

Do you deny that the Crusades were bloody and unjust for the Jews? There were many events like that over the past thousands of years.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

Stubble wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:14 pm 1) direct expulsion from England in 1290 for coin clipping.
OK that's fine. Based on my research, there is some archaeological evidence that coin clipping did occur amongst a small group of both Jews and Christians.

The coin clipping scandal of 1278–1279 led to the arrest of more than 100 Christians and over 250 Jews. So it was not solely a Jewish phenomenon. Some confessions were obtained—but many under duress, torture, or threat of death.

But at the time, the Crown was deeply indebted to Jewish moneylenders. Arresting and executing them, then seizing their property, benefited the king financially. Though both Jews and Christians clipped coins, Jews were disproportionately arrested and punished. Over 100 Jews were executed, while Christian punishments were often more lenient. Trials lacked due process by modern standards. Torture and coerced confessions were common. Blood libels and antisemitic propaganda were rampant during this period. Coin clipping accusations fit into a broader pattern of demonizing Jews with fabricated or exaggerated charges.

So based on this example, I have a few follow up questions for you.

1. Do you think Jews and Christians or all humans should get the same punishments for committing the same crime?

2. Do you think that all trials back then, or even today, are completely accurate in their judgments? For example, if somebody confesses while you are torturing them, is that a credible or valid confession?

3. Let's say all 250 Jews that were accused of coin clipping actually did it, I would say that's most definitely not true but I'm being generous here. Do you think it is justifiable to expel all 3,000 Jews living in England if 10% of them do something that is wrong and that isn't even a violent or sexual crime?
2) see previous posts.
This is an example of me being bombarded. This thread is about Medieval anti-semitism and expulsions which has nothing to do about sexual behaviors. You are also telling me to go back through this thread and reference an old post. Let's just put this discussion in another thread so we can keep things organized better. I will address this subject there if you would like to create one.
3) countersemetism does not stem from the rejection of jesus unless you believe that rejection led to the destruction of the second temple and expulsion from Palestine.
This is a non sequitur to me. The Jews were occupied by Rome and expelled for an uprising. Later on after the collapse of the Roman Empire, the Catholic Church filled the power vacuum and the Catholics persecuted Jews for not accepting Jesus.

Do you deny that the Crusades were bloody and unjust for the Jews? There were many events like that over the past thousands of years.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 10:43 pm
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 9:42 pm You decided “very emotional” on the use of one word “blatantly”. That shows an inability to assess written words correctly. Which is going to be a huge handicap for you if you genuinely want to investigate the possible/probable falsity of the holocaust ‘mass-gassing’ allegation.
Whether the wording is “blatantly false” or “clearly false”, the evidence refuting your false claim still stands. You’ve just ignored it by focusing instead on the messenger rather than the message.

BOTTOM LINE:
This isn’t an “emotionally charged subject” for me. I suggest the fact that you think it is, demonstrates you are psychologically projecting your own state-of-mind: presumably because you are experiencing cognitive dissonance from the evidence provided.
Anyone who thinks they can know from one continent (America) the state of mind of someone living across a vast ocean (in Europe) much BETTER and more accurately than that person themselves can has serious issues. It is a sign of a delusional mind-set.
Which would explain why you can’t accept (or even familiarise yourself with) the considerable evidence of reasons for the 1030 known cases of expulsion of jews from numerous countries over a period of more than a thousand years.
Just stick to arguments and facts.
That is what I have been doing. I can’t be held responsible if you don’t read the provided facts and instead respond emotionally with denial and avoidance due to cognitive dissonance.
No need to use flowery language like blatant.
That isn’t “flowery language”. :roll:
No need to call me delusional, that too is a form of aggression which is an emotion.
A logical and precise psychological observation based upon repeated but unacknowledged behaviour is neither “aggressive” nor “emotional”, Captain.
The 1,030 "known cases" of expulsions are not true but you are welcome to provide me with a source. Be like Spock.
You can not know the cases “are not true” until you have familiarised yourself with the evidence for each of them. Noone can do that, Captain. To believe that you can is illogical.

I have already provided you with information of numerous cases with verifiable sources FOR EVERY ONE PROVIDED. You thought the list was “long” and admitted you didn’t read it. But here you are asking for a source as if that never happened.

I suggest the most logical course of action for you, Captain, is that you visit the sickbay and make an appointment to see the Enterprise’s clinical psychologist. ;)
Last edited by Wahrheitssucher on Tue May 20, 2025 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

ConfusedJew wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 10:49 pm
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 9:19 pm So come on CJ, what has accusations of coin clipping, or ritual murder, or routinely cheating/lying, or sexual degeneracy, or treasonal acts, or… etc., etc., got to do with Christianity?

Q1. Did you even read the long list I provided of expulsions and the reasons given?
No I have not read your long list. Please provide a source and we can discuss that so that I can verify is the source is even credible, which it most likely will not be in my expectation.
Q2. Do you know anything at all about the most recent, documented cases of jewish ritual murder of non-Jews?
No, I don't know what you are talking about. If you provide a credible source, I will take a look.
Q3. Do you know anything at all about the reasons given for the 19th century Russian progroms against Jews?
Some of the reasons were due to economic envy, accusations of deicide, and due to false conspiracy theories that were spread in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (plagiarized from other fictional sources). If you have other arguments, feel free to present those. Even if any of them are accurate, it does not justify collectively punishing an entire group of people if a tiny subset of them transgresses. This is my personal moral value, but maybe you think it is justifiable to punish somebody for what their sibling did.
Thank you.
What was wrong with the sources already provided and not read?

The problem here is you demonstrate and admit you are ignorant of the causes for expulsion, yet won’t read evidence that would remove that ignorance.

You again end with a passive-aggressive attempt at being demeaning/insulting and asserting superiority by falsely implying I support collective punishment. I do not. My interest here is whether the accusations that caused the expulsions had any credibility. Your repeated resorting to opinions on the morality of collective punishment is off-topic and a distraction. I think that behaviour on your part is deliberate but subliminal avoidance.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

For anyone who is genuinely interested in what I regard as the MAIN REASON why Jews have been mistrusted, resented and expelled over the centuries, here it is.
It is because of their racist, prejudiced misuse of money / banking / usury that gives unfair advantage to fellow Jews.

Here is a jewish gloss on this history written for and to other jews. I have not included the gloss, just the admissions relevant to this topic-thread:
Interest-Free Loans in Judaism
Jews have a tradition, based in biblical law, of interest-free lending, primarily — but not exclusively — to other Jews.
Thanks in no small part to The Merchant of Venice, the image of the Jew as unscrupulous moneylender has come down through history — from Shylock demanding his pound of flesh, through Ezra Pound’s insidious “usura” cantos, Jewish moneylenders have been shown charging extortionate interest rates.

In fact, the roots of Jewish lending are to be found in tzedakah, in charitable works. Loans were to be given as a form of charity, not for gain. Jews were specifically prohibited from lending to other Jews “on interest”.

Non-Jews & Loans
This said, it should be noted that the halakhah [applicable Jewish law] regarding free loans apply ONLY to loans made to other Jews. It is permissible to make loans with interest to non-Jews. Clearly, this policy is discriminatory.

Clearly, the roots of the discrimination between loans to Jews and to non-Jews are to be found, first, in the often violent tensions between Jew and non-Jew, particularly before the Emancipation resulted in the increased integration of Jews into non-Jewish societies…
~ Taken from an article on the jewish website: ‘my jewish learning’.
[text formatting to accentuate certain words is my own and is not in the original article]
Here’s a link to anyone with an Instagram account of an Asian-American entrepreneur complaining of the unfair advantage this gives to jews. He describes how a Jewish friend informed him that he can go into many banks and by saying he is Jewish to the right person he will be taken into a “back-room” and given an interest free loan. And that it can be for ANYTHING: a business venture, a boat, a car, a house, whatever:


From the above it can be seen that expelling all Jews for such behaviour can NOT be described as an unjust form of collective punishment, as the practice could, did and still does apply to literally all jews.

And the reason why Jews were resented and expelled from towns and villages in Russia during what are called by themselves ‘the Russian progroms’ is similar in that it has to do with actual and verifiable underhand business practices. In that case it was due to the admission by a Jewish convert to Christianity of much more abusive, wicked and heartless exploitation by cabals of Jews across Russia of financial, trade and business deals. I will write this up in another post.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

'The Book of the Kahal'

Jews were expelled from towns in Russia (what are today in Poland and Ukraine) starting from 1881 to 1882. The ‘final straw’ had been the assassination / murder of the Russian Tsar Alexander II in March of 1881. One of the captured conspirators was Jewish and it was widely believed that it has been a predominantly jewish plot / conspiracy. This belief is borne out by the preponderance of jews in the later anti-monarchist revolution and the subsequent bolshevik revolution of 1917.

But what had preceded and precipitated the widespread outrage against jews was the increasing awareness of Jewish secret councils (kahals) and their practices. This was the primary cause of the anti-Jewish feelings. The assassination of the Czar had been a secondary cause. This is even acknowledged by some Jewish historians, e.g. Michael Aronson, "Geographical and Socioeconomic Factors in the 1881 Anti-Jewish Pogroms in Russia", Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 1. (Jan., 1980), pp. 18–31).

In the 1860's in Tsarist Russia a Jew from Vilnus named Jacob Brafman had exposed the practices there of Jewish communities known as kahals (or Qahals).

Brafman was a Jewish Professor of Hebrew Studies at the Orthodox Seminary in Minsk. He was a Lithuanian Jew who converted to Christianity: first to Lutheranism and then to the Russian Orthodox Church. He had translated from Yiddish to Russian the minutes of the kahal in Minsk and beginning in 1867 began publishing them and explaining them in a local newspaper. These were later published as a book called 'The Book of the Kahal'.

Image

Brafman wrote in that book of the procedures and methods employed by Jewish communities across Europe which transgressed the laws limiting their civil rights in the countries where they resided. Among their listed methods he included “to exclude from trade and industry the members of other religions and to concentrate in their own hands all capital and real estate”.

When people read and discovered how they had been cheated and defrauded by secret cabals of jews, they were naturally upset.

Brafman later revealed more of the secret Jewish communities co-ordination and attitudes to their non-Jewish neighbours and fellow citizens in a book called 'Local and universal Jewish brotherhoods' in 1869.
These revelations were responsible for increased mistrust, resentment and violent reprisals known as progroms against Jewish communities in Russia.

This internal exposure by a Russian Jew of the Jewish kahals stated that "these brotherhoods are the major arteries of Jewish society... They link all the Jews scattered over the globe into one powerful and invincible body."

Brafman wrote that these kahals existed all around the world and were under the authority of the Alliance Israélite Universelle whose headquarters were in France (the land of the first successful European anti-monarchical revolution).

These two books were then translated and published in the rest of Europe. This fed pre-existing fears that all Jewish communities and all Jews throughout the world felt little patriotic allegiance to their resident nations, were parasitic and could not be trusted.

Image

That the revelations in the ‘Book of the Kahal’ were a primary factor for the riots / progroms and expulsions is not part of ‘official history’ because here also [as with Sir Richard Burton’s exposé of Jewish Ritual Murder] the jews who are in positions to control the narratives which people can easily become aware of, do not want people to know about these practices as they STILL employ them.

They keep this info suppressed in the same way that jews who can control the narrative of the Jeffrey Epstein case do not permit his client-list to be publicly revealed because they STILL want to benefit from the ability to blackmail those on it.
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InuYasha
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by InuYasha »

The expulsion of Jews was an almost universal trend in Medieval and early modern Europe. Apparently, kings and rulers saw the Jewish people as a threat, which is why they resorted to such a measure. Regardless of the justification for such measures, it was extremely common. Jews were expelled from England, from Spain, from Portugal, etc.

All of this could have been avoided if the Jews had had their own state at that time - then they would have simply left Europe, going to their historical homeland. Instead, they found themselves scattered around the world, in a world that was alien to them. The fact that the Jewish people retained their identity for 2,000 years before re-establishing their homeland is impressive. The nations of Europe really have a lot to learn from in terms of preserving their national identity.

It is also strange that local users believe that an innate neurobiological condition may be more common among Jews than other peoples, supposedly because it is "encouraged in the Jewish religion/culture" and justifies the expulsion of Jewish people.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
(c) JFK
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

InuYasha wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:30 pm …Jews were expelled from England, from Spain, from Portugal, etc.
All of this could have been avoided if the Jews had had their own state at that time - then they would have simply left Europe, going to their historical homeland.
Nah! I think you are just repeating the narrative they have indoctrinated the world with.
InuYasha wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:30 pm Instead, they found themselves scattered around the world, in a world that was alien to them.
They didn’t just “find themselves” somewhere. They moved to places of their own free will and when their activities became resented, they moved elsewhere (whether by choice or by expulsion). They didn’t just “find themselves” in the countries you mentioned.
InuYasha wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:30 pm The fact that the Jewish people retained their identity for 2,000 years before re-establishing their homeland is impressive.
What identity? In what way have the zionist, athiest ‘Jews’ of Eastern European origin like Golda Meir, David ben Gurion, Yitzhak Shamir, Bibi Netanyahu etc., retained any form of identity with the middle-Eastern, semitic, Hebrew tribes of the middle East from 2,000 years ago? They are like all the lost, new-age American movements that claim affiliation with Buddha or Shankara Acharya and his Advaita philosophy, or ancient Essenes and then sell their distortion of that to other lost, new-age Americans as a means to make money.
Or another and perhaps better example is the American invader-settler Joseph Smith creating Mormonism and claiming to be connected via a secret discovered book to a lost tribe of ancient Hebrews who supposedly had emigrated to America in antiquity. Its a phantasy. In each case I believe that is a self-serving con.
In what way are athiestic Europeans who claim to be descendants from ancient Hebrew tribes any different?
InuYasha wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:30 pm The nations of Europe really have a lot to learn from in terms of preserving their national identity.
Are you not aware that it is Jewish organisations that are behind the calculated destruction of European nationalism through their ‘cultural diversity’ programs. Something that they do not want at all in their quasi-legal, stolen land, racist, apartheid, jew-only ethno-state.
InuYasha wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:30 pm It is also strange that local users believe that an innate neurobiological condition may be more common among Jews than other peoples, supposedly because it is "encouraged in the Jewish religion/culture" and justifies the expulsion of Jewish people.
Can you explain further? I don’t understand what you mean.
The Ashkenazi jews of Israel have almost no semitic DNA. Consequently home DNA tests are outlawed there. Jewish-Israeli Prof Shlomo Sands and Ex-Jewish-Israeli musician Gilad Atzmon have both debunked the myths of the ‘jewish’ national identity claimed by the European invader-settler-colonialists of occupied Palestine. Are you aware of this?
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

Wahrheitssucher wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 10:21 pm The Ashkenazi jews of Israel have almost no semitic DNA. Consequently home DNA tests are outlawed there. Jewish-Israeli Prof Shlomo Sands and Ex-Jewish-Israeli musician Gilad Atzmon have both debunked the myths of the ‘jewish’ national identity claimed by the European invader-settler-colonialists of occupied Palestine. Are you aware of this?
None of those things are true.

I don't know how many of you identify as anti-semites but you are certainly primed to uncritically believe anything you hear that is negative about the Jews.

Are there any good things about Jews that you believe are true? How many Jews have you met and were your experiences good or bad?
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Stubble
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Stubble »

CJ, the reason he asked if you were familiar, is because Mr Seeker is about to bring you receipts.

This rather reminds me of the time you asked me 'who thinks you are Amalek?'. Of course, the answer was, jews.

Now, personally I don't believe the ashkenazim are of European origin, and, I've seen studies on some ashkenazim that indeed reflect a root in the Levant. That said, the jury on the khazars and their contribution to the tribe is still out.

http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html

I mean, unless you can prove that they aren't from khazarian stock.

But, talking about these things can go very far off topic.
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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Wahrheitssucher
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Wahrheitssucher »

ConfusedJew wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 1:35 am
Wahrheitssucher wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 10:21 pm 1. The Ashkenazi jews of Israel have almost no semitic DNA.
2. Consequently home DNA tests are outlawed there.
3. Jewish-Israeli Prof Shlomo Sands and Ex-Jewish-Israeli musician Gilad Atzmon have both debunked the myths of the ‘jewish’ national identity claimed by the European invader-settler-colonialists of occupied Palestine.
Are you aware of this?
None of those things are true.
As usual you show yourself to be ill-informed/ignorant, making over-confident false staments from that ignorance and in denial.

1. Here is evidence for the first statement:
The origin of the Ashkenazi Jews, who come most recently from Europe, has largely been shrouded in mystery. But a new study suggests that at least their maternal lineage may derive largely from Europe.
Though the finding may seem intuitive, it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism, said study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England.
https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/mos ... 8C11358210
2. Here is evidence for the 2nd statement:
If you live in Israel and want to find out where your family comes from, what do you do? One thing is for certain, an ancestry kit from the local pharmacy is out of the question, according to a Yediot Aharonot report. While millions of such kits have been sold in the United States, Israelis are forbidden to buy ancestry DNA kits from the store without presenting a court order, as the Israeli government controls these types of purchases due to the "Genetic Information Law."
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/want- ... der-585230
3. Here is evidence of the third statement:
ConfusedJew wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 1:35 am I don't know how many of you identify as anti-semites but… [irrelevant waffle omitted]
I am not anti-semitic. I am against ALL forms of irrational prejudice, whether racial, religious, ethnic, or whatever.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

Honestly, that response is so fundamentally twisted that I don't have time to respond to it.

Due to the relative scarcity of relevant historical records, the ethnic origins of present-day Ashkenazi Jews are debated [2], and in such a setting, genetic data provides crucial information. A number of recent studies have shown that Ashkenazi individuals have genetic ancestry intermediate between European (EU) and Middle-Eastern (ME) sources [4–8], consistent with the long-held theory of a Levantine origin followed by partial assimilation in Europe. The estimated amount of accumulated EU gene flow varied across studies, with the most recent ones, employing genome-wide data, converging to a contribution of around 50% of the AJ ancestry.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5380316/

I don't really have the energy to clarify basic facts with you guys anymore.

Shlomo Sand wrote a book with a political agenda and twisted the facts. He made some interesting arguments but overall did not effectively make the claim that he was trying to make.

DNA tests are not banned in Israel but they are controlled. I'm not sure exactly why that is, it is interesting, but it's not because Ashkenazis Jews as a whole "have almost no semitic DNA". Even the 50% figure is on the lower side of estimates.
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ConfusedJew
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by ConfusedJew »

You can prove that they aren't from Khazaria. I'm not an expert on genetics but there's no DNA evidence even remotely suggesting that Ashkenazi Jews are from Khazaria.
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Stubble
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Re: Truth about Jewish Expulsions

Post by Stubble »

Why are you so opposed to 1) reading 2) challenging your preconceptions.

https://www.amazon.com/Maternal-Genetic ... xplicit-20

Here, this outlines the khazarian contribution to the genome of the ashkenazim.

Your turn, can you provide, something to support your position?
were to guess why no t4 personnel were chosen to perform gassing that had experience with gassing, it would be because THERE WERE NONE.
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