Where Myths Meet Their Demise
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The British did indeed arrest Germans and sent them to camps during WWII. I can evidence there were no mass killings of those Germans by the British. You cannot do that, regarding the Jews arrested by the Nazis.
It is revealing that this is so difficult for you. It seems you have been vaguely alluding to these "rigorous statistical studies" for months now, yet you can't actually name any. Hmm.ConfusedJew wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 10:37 pmI'll move forward with this when we agree on some important basics.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 9:39 pm
Please share with us these "rigorous" studies that you are relying on. And please explain what sources of data were miraculously discovered years after the fact that help them fix all the numbers they had wrong.
And can you clarify your argument? Are you saying that they had the numbers wrong in the 1930s due to inaccurate contemporaneous data but were able to fix it years later? Or are you saying that the correct numbers (the "rigorous" studies) were available but that people like Korherr, Linfield, Kohn, etc were too stupid to be aware of them?
I don't know if any of those people were stupid or not. Science and history tends to progress with time although there short setbacks.
And keep in mind, you can't and shouldn't expect to see any perfect statistical or historical study. But over time, as humans develop better techniques and gather better information, their studies get better and better.
Depending on how much effort this will take, if you are intellectually honest, we can look at that earlier studies and compare them to later studies to find out why the later and more rigorous ones are more reliable and credible. It requires the ability to think critical about evidence and research and analysis methods but if you can do that then we can do some independent meta-research.
I am too tired of arguing with people here about unimportant things so I want to ensure that we have a shared understanding before I invest more time into this exercise.
This is not what I'm even seeing in the Korherr report. The translation that I'm seeing does not give a range.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 4:14 am CJ has still not addressed this. He claims that there was absolute agreement on the prewar figure of 16.6M which is simply not true. Many Jewish sources and reference works estimated a world population around a million lower than CJ's "consensus" figure. In general, he is greatly underestimating the difficulty of counting and Jews and is greatly overconfident in the reliability of the stats.
Here is what Korherr said in his report for Himmler.
Does this sound like the number was known with absolute certainty? And that's for the prewar number which should be relatively easy. The statistical difficulties would obviously be much greater in the aftermath of the war.Statistical Analysis of Jewry
World
The total Jewish population of the world was estimated to be between 15 and 18 million in the last decade, sometimes at over 20 million. The Statistische Reichsamt (German Bureau of Statistics) estimated the total Jewish population of the world at 17 million in 1937.
Your link is only the long version. There also a shorter version and that is where he quotes the prewar stats.ConfusedJew wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 8:51 pmThis is not what I'm even seeing in the Korherr report. The translation that I'm seeing does not give a range.Archie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 13, 2025 4:14 am CJ has still not addressed this. He claims that there was absolute agreement on the prewar figure of 16.6M which is simply not true. Many Jewish sources and reference works estimated a world population around a million lower than CJ's "consensus" figure. In general, he is greatly underestimating the difficulty of counting and Jews and is greatly overconfident in the reliability of the stats.
Here is what Korherr said in his report for Himmler.
Does this sound like the number was known with absolute certainty? And that's for the prewar number which should be relatively easy. The statistical difficulties would obviously be much greater in the aftermath of the war.Statistical Analysis of Jewry
World
The total Jewish population of the world was estimated to be between 15 and 18 million in the last decade, sometimes at over 20 million. The Statistische Reichsamt (German Bureau of Statistics) estimated the total Jewish population of the world at 17 million in 1937.
"The total number of Jews in the world was estimated in 1937 in general at around 17 million, of which more than 10 million are found in Europe."
https://germanhistorydocs.org/en/nazi-g ... ch-23-1943
You don't want to be called an idiot, but you try. I talked about what they did to Germans after the war, and you come here and talk about the British.
I am making the point that I know how to evidence what did, and, what did not happen. You do not know how to do that most basic of task.TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 14, 2025 10:56 pmYou don't want to be called an idiot, but you try. I talked about what they did to Germans after the war, and you come here and talk about the British.
You can't even guarantee that you're Jewish, since not even Jews know how to define themselves, let alone what happened in the past in a specific place. Keep citing so-called spurious people to get them to go to a street corner in Kiev.
As criminal investigators, so-called revisionists are total failures. Overwhelming evidence has been presented, most of it coming from Nazi sources. Nazi population statistics all record huge drops in the Jewish population in Europe during the war, including many documents recording mass murder.TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 15, 2025 1:57 pm Historians? We're dealing with a crime here. And the so-called overwhelming evidence isn't presented, nor are the existential documents. Having a bunch of people claiming to have witnessed atrocities is irrelevant if the materiality and documentation are scarce or distorted by those who want to support all this, which is the case with the Allies and their annexes.
It can be circumstantial evidence of murder. If lots of people are murdered, there will be a population loss. If there is a population loss, the cause could be murder. When the Nazis declared Jews an enemy of the state, to be rid of, identifying and arresting millions, sending them to camps and ghettos, they created the opportunity to kill them. That the Nazis themselves recorded huge drops in the population of Jews they had arrested and by 1944 there were no more ghettos left and camps were closing, or their populations falling, that is circumstantial evidence of murder. Add to that the openness of the Einsatzgruppen in the east, about the mass shooting of Jews and Nazis use of killing as a policy, with the disabled, we have evidence of motive and opportunity.
You cannot evidence that claim. Your lack of evidence is why I do not believe you.The number of Jewish deaths during World War II was no more than 25% of the alleged number, and even then, the result was many, not gas chambers.
Certain countries did do more to protect their Jewish citizens than others. The Nazis did not have the capacity to take over every country in its entirety to go after the Jewish population and obviously could not go after those enabled to escape, such as the Jews who fled to neutral Sweden.TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 15, 2025 7:00 pm Not all Jews in Europe were affected. More than 1.5 million Jews from Western and Southern Europe lived through the German occupation undisturbed, based on the Wannsee Protocol, and the Germans had more than enough infrastructure to eliminate them if they so desired. This suggests that those transported were sent to work in the East or to punish those involved in sabotage, living in concentration camps, or being sent to remote places, as Goebbels suggests in his diary.
April 20, 1942
The most recent act of sabotage against a German military train (in France), which resulted in several deaths, will be met with harsh reprisals. The number of shootings will be doubled, and more than a thousand communists and Jews will be sent to the East. There, they will soon no longer see the joy in disrupting Germany's policies for order in Europe.
You still cannot explain why they were making the east Jew free. How does that fit with your resettlement claim?TlsMS93 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:10 pm Based on what do you claim they lacked capacity? Voices in my head? It's funny that those who fled to Sweden thought they were going to the gas chamber, but none of the deportees from Norway went to one. In other words, they believed rumors spread by communist Jews from central Europe.