The CODOH Revisionist Forum

So nobody thinks I have anything 'up my sleeve' here;

Spoiler

Work was begun to cremate the dead. It turned out that bodies of women burned more easily than those of men. Accordingly, the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires. Since cremation was hard work, rivalry set in between the labor details as to which of them would be able to cremate the largest number of bodies. Bulletin boards were rigged up and daily scores were recorded. Nevertheless, the results were very poor. The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn. Whenever an airplane was sighted overhead, all work was stopped, the corpses were covered with foliage as camouflage against aerial observation.

https://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

Page 50, 'A Year in Treblinka'.

Just, think about this for a moment, you have a 'corpse volcano' roaring, and smoke bellowing up to tens of thousands of feet, like a beacon to a reconnaissance aircraft, but, you are going to 'put foliage' over a few loose corpses...for concealment...

If this post would be better merged with my last post, mods, please merge post.

The Polish word the Jankiel Wiernik Writing Collective­™ uses is "choinkami," which means "with Christmas trees."

There's a small chance it could refer to just a regular fir or spruce, but searching the word "choinka" (Christmas tree) in the Polish archives gives results that are predominantly Christmas trees with lights/ornaments.

It's really schlocky stuff. It's not clear which of the 3+ authors we commonly refer to as "Jankiel Wiernik" added the imagery of Jews hastily throwing Christmas trees, a Christian religious symbol, on corpses of dead Jews.

No wonder Donat altered it to "foliage" in his translation.

Oh wait, it looks like Donat just plagiarized that passage verbatim from the first English translation. As usual.

Here's the phone book entry for Malkinia from August 1942 (once again, thanks to pilgrimofdark):
https://mbc.cyfrowemazowsze.pl/dlibra/p ... ormat_id=2

Translation:

Malkinia

Behrenott Jozef, Railway Station Restaurant, Station 27
Malkinia Municipal Administration 12
Prostyn Municipal Administration 19
Kuznicki Emil, Roofing Felt Factory 9
Oppmann & Kozlowski, Nurskastrasse 31 17
Organisation Todt Construction Management Bug-North, Construction Office Malkinia 24
Eastern Railway:

• Railway Station * 10

Papoth & Co. Dr. Ing. Civil Engineering Company Berlin-Steglitz Construction Site

• Malkinia Bug Bridge 15

Police:

• Gendarmerie Post 13
• Security Police Border Police Station 6
• Polish Police Station 14

Post Office German Post Office East

• Postmaster 11
• Residence 28
• Counter 29
• Telephone Exchange 26
• Public Telephone Booth

Rudzki K. & Co. Metal Industry Company 23
Windschild & Langelott KG Construction Site Malkinia and Eastern Railway Bridge Construction Management 16
Customs Brokerage 5

Here we find the Railway Station Restaurant right up the road from T-II, just 4.3 miles, along with various labor offices and factories/warehouses, local government offices, and German and Polish police stations (in addition to nearby towns). These people worked 9-to-5 jobs daily but were supposedly seeing a massive volcanic plume and horrific odor spewing non-stop. Yet, somehow, it took a Jewish-communist "underground" network and postwar show trials to expose this 'dark truth'.

Remember that Treblinka and even T-II were not some impossible-to-reach "black site". People observing massive plumes of cremation smoke could take any one of the multiple trains running daily along the Malkinia-Siedlce line to get a closer look (or closer smell), within a few hundred meters or so of the camp (T-II) entrance and share their observations with neighbors. They could take the same line back to Malkinia to see it from the other direction, as well.

Something I'm finding perplexing about this August 1942 phone book (reportedly for Warsaw but apparently includes other areas, e.g. Malkinia) is that I am coming across many more instances of Jewish health organizations, social services, and labor organizations than I was able to find in the May 1942 General Government edition. A search for the term "Jud" in this later/Warsaw version gives 96 results (there are likely more but this is what the OCR captured), most of which appear unique and some of which strongly suggest German willingness to continue facilitating some fairness or normalcy for Jewish life, even as resettlement evacuations were being facilitated. There are far too many examples to list here but I'd recommend anyone interested try the same search of the document.
https://mbc.cyfrowemazowsze.pl/dlibra/p ... ormat_id=2

The reasons why the Nazis used Poland as the site of the main death camps were that it had the largest national Jewish population, they took over total control of the country and its government and it was well served by railways, to enable the mass transports of Jews.

The Holocaust trains ran around the local timetables, which was one reason why those transports were often delayed and waited at stations. That life for the Poles was made as normal as possible and that the Nazis improved infrastructure, such as the telephone, was because the Poles were expected to become labourers for the Germans who would settle and farm the land. Many Poles, whilst unhappy at German occupation, were happy to see the backs of their Jewish neighbours.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 9:18 am The reasons why the Nazis used Poland as the site of the main death camps were that it had the largest national Jewish population, they took over total control of the country and its government and it was well served by railways, to enable the mass transports of Jews.

I am impressed that you were able to say something without really saying anything at all.

"The reasons the Nazis had the largest ghettos in Poland is because the most Jews were there."
"The reasons the Nazis used Poland as the site of the main transit camps is because there were lots of Jews there to transit."

Am I doing this right?

Nessie wrote:The Holocaust trains ran around the local timetables, which was one reason why those transports were often delayed and waited at stations. That life for the Poles was made as normal as possible and that the Nazis improved infrastructure, such as the telephone, was because the Poles were expected to become labourers for the Germans who would settle and farm the land. Many Poles, whilst unhappy at German occupation, were happy to see the backs of their Jewish neighbours.

This is general WW2 info, I am not even sure it disagrees with revisionism. Thanks, I suppose.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 10:22 am ...
This is general WW2 info, I am not even sure it disagrees with revisionism. Thanks, I suppose.

What revision? You have found some evidence that you are trying to fit into your desired belief, that the AR camps were not death camps. You have clearly confused the villages of Belzec and Sobibor with the AR camps that have the same names.

The Nazis were improving the local infrastructure, by expanding, the telephone system. An agriculture cooperative at Belzec and forestry office in the village of Sobibor, not the death camp as you thought, is consistent with Nazi policy regarding Poland. It was to be part of the greater Reich, and become the source of much needed food and other resources. The Poles would work for German owners, tending the fields and the forests.

Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka just happened to be the nearest villages to the three main camps the Nazis used for Action Reinhardt. Of course, other activity continued in the villages and surrounding farm land and forestry. The AR camps were never going to be permanent features.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 10:22 am

Nessie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 9:18 am The reasons why the Nazis used Poland as the site of the main death camps were that it had the largest national Jewish population, they took over total control of the country and its government and it was well served by railways, to enable the mass transports of Jews.

I am impressed that you were able to say something without really saying anything at all.

"The reasons the Nazis had the largest ghettos in Poland is because the most Jews were there."
"The reasons the Nazis used Poland as the site of the main transit camps is because there were lots of Jews there to transit."

Am I doing this right?

Nessie wrote:The Holocaust trains ran around the local timetables, which was one reason why those transports were often delayed and waited at stations. That life for the Poles was made as normal as possible and that the Nazis improved infrastructure, such as the telephone, was because the Poles were expected to become labourers for the Germans who would settle and farm the land. Many Poles, whilst unhappy at German occupation, were happy to see the backs of their Jewish neighbours.

This is general WW2 info, I am not even sure it disagrees with revisionism. Thanks, I suppose.

Indeed, I wonder if he can see why the info above in the OP may matter.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 11:10 am What revision? You have found some evidence that you are trying to fit into your desired belief, that the AR camps were not death camps. You have clearly confused the villages of Belzec and Sobibor with the AR camps that have the same names.

I don't have to work very hard to 'try to fit' my narrative, with clear evidence of:

• Regular passenger train visits with ~5-minute stops 6-10 times per day at the largest 'extermination camps', some having multiple stations in a ~4-5 mile radius
• The nearest stations stopping at or near the actual 'extermination' camps consistently within ~2 km (or less) of where actual extermination operations are alleged to have occurred.
• Train lines at the very least taking passengers directly over the 'extermination' operation (an impressive window view), often within a few hundred meters (e.g. T-II), and in two different perspectives (trains going both directions).
• Passengers, journalists, etc., could take these trains multiple times, often in the same day, to get a closer look, document changes or patterns over time, etc.
• Tourism immediately around these 'extermination camps' was actively promoted by an officially-sanctioned travel guide, including multiple restaurants well-within the area that would be saturated with corpse-burning odor and volcanic 'Holocaust-plumes' in full view
• Numerous phone numbers suggesting innocuous purposes and priorities (and other large companies and agencies not privy to a 'Holocaust' working nearby) for each camp.

You can claim this still aligns with a 'Holocaust' mega-volcanic-24/7-cremation operation casting noxious, putrid, foul odors across the entire area at all hours of every day and somehow all laborers, Polish police, tourists (including restaurant patrons), thousands of residents, town hall and postal staff, and others didn't bother to document this heavily and inform their family, friends, or journalists, etc., overseas (neither during nor after the war), but you're hard-pressed to make this claim, since these conditions overall fit much better within a revisionist framework.

Nessie wrote:The Nazis were improving the local infrastructure, by expanding, the telephone system. An agriculture cooperative at Belzec and forestry office in the village of Sobibor, not the death camp as you thought, is consistent with Nazi policy regarding Poland. It was to be part of the greater Reich, and become the source of much needed food and other resources. The Poles would work for German owners, tending the fields and the forests.

These new facilities were placed within 1-mile of where 'gassing' and mass cremation pyres would have been burning non-stop. There is no rational explanation for why mass murderers would establish such mundane operations within such close proximity to their deepest, darkest secret; especially given that some of these operations were likely high-traffic for outside interests, e.g. the District Agricultural Cooperative which would have relationships with farmers, traders, laborers, etc. all within and beyond the district, seeking to make connections, find work, trade produce, etc.

Critically, we also find that these locations are all advertised in an official tourism guide that was sanctioned by Hans Frank -- an important architect and overseer of the 'Holocaust'. Why in the hell would Hans Frank support and sign-off on such a program of tourism into and throughout 'extermination' areas under his purview?

Nessie wrote:Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka just happened to be the nearest villages to the three main camps the Nazis used for Action Reinhardt. Of course, other activity continued in the villages and surrounding farm land and forestry. The AR camps were never going to be permanent features.

They didn't 'just happen to be the nearest villages' -- these are the locations where the camps actually were. These villages did not coincidentally have the same name as the camps; the camps were referred to by this name because these are the towns (and train stations) they were located at.

The camps, train stations, and villages/towns are all distinct. And with Treblinka, there were multiple camps. It's easy to conflate them. I do it all the time. It's fun to be confused!

These villages are closer to the Treblinka camps than Treblinka village.

• Grądy
• Poniatowo
• Wólka Okrąglik
• Wólka Dolna

Żłobek and Wołczyny are closer to the Sobibor train station/camp than Sobibor village.

Zmuliska is closer to the Belzec train station/camp than Belzec town.

These are (large) maps of each area, showing road paving projects and other military-geographic points of interest. I also included Siedlce, because the Malkinia-Siedlce line was important.

• Treblinka & Malkinia
• Siedlce (directly south)
• Belzec
• Sobibor

Also, Auschwitz shows up more on the Official Pocket Timetable for the Upper Silesian Transport Area here.

pilgrimofdark wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 1:08 am The camps, train stations, and villages/towns are all distinct. And with Treblinka, there were multiple camps. It's easy to conflate them. I do it all the time. It's fun to be confused!

These villages are closer to the Treblinka camps than Treblinka village.

• Grądy
• Poniatowo
• Wólka Okrąglik
• Wólka Dolna

Żłobek and Wołczyny are closer to the Sobibor train station/camp than Sobibor village.

Zmuliska is closer to the Belzec train station/camp than Belzec town.

These are (large) maps of each area, showing road paving projects and other military-geographic points of interest. I also included Siedlce, because the Malkinia-Siedlce line was important.

• Treblinka & Malkinia
• Siedlce (directly south)
• Belzec
• Sobibor

Also, Auschwitz shows up more on the Official Pocket Timetable for the Upper Silesian Transport Area here.

Thank you, pilgrimofdark, for the clarification and the additional resources.

In noting the phone numbers for Belzec/Sobibor villages, my main point has been to show how these areas developed and were administered at the same time 'extermination' was [allegedly] occurring. There may have been villages nearer to the claimed 'extermination' site however the namesake locations are still useful references and were close enough for the 'Nazis' to designate them as such. Nonetheless, the villages even closer to the site are perhaps even more significant and could show a similar pattern (e.g. new agricultural facilities relevant to Belzec). I will look into these when I have time.

For now, I noticed that the map(s) you provided are actually in extraordinary detail. Not only do they show contemporary projects, elevation, vegetation, and roads; they also show structures existing at that time (houses, businesses, etc.). I find this extremely helpful as, with it, we can illustrate the layout of probable witnesses in the surrounding area.

In this map below (perspective-shifted and with my own markings), we see the the upper part of the Malkinia-Siedlce line including Malkinia all the way down to Kosow Lacki. I have marked the location of T-I and T-II (in green and red, respectively). I have also highlighted all of the locations nearby that I could find with clusters of ~10 or more structures (indicating a probable village and/or commercial district). There are many more structures scattered throughout the map that were not in major clusters, so I did not highlight them. Each structure could represent ~5-10 or more witnesses on a regular or daily basis as cremations at T-II surged non-stop.

Kosow Lacki (bottom-right) had a grocery/market noted for tourists. Malkinia had the railway restaurant and multiple businesses and construction projects. Treblinka station is just shortly up the road (~3 km) from TII. Most notably, perhaps, is that the railway runs right past T-II at a distance of only ~500 meters from alleged gassing and mass cremation operations.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 9:39 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Sat Dec 20, 2025 11:10 am What revision? You have found some evidence that you are trying to fit into your desired belief, that the AR camps were not death camps. You have clearly confused the villages of Belzec and Sobibor with the AR camps that have the same names.

I don't have to work very hard to 'try to fit' my narrative, with clear evidence of:

• Regular passenger train visits with ~5-minute stops 6-10 times per day at the largest 'extermination camps', some having multiple stations in a ~4-5 mile radius

They were not stopping at the camp, they were stopping at the village stations.

[*] The nearest stations stopping at or near the actual 'extermination' camps consistently within ~2 km (or less) of where actual extermination operations are alleged to have occurred.
[*] Train lines at the very least taking passengers directly over the 'extermination' operation (an impressive window view), often within a few hundred meters (e.g. T-II), and in two different perspectives (trains going both directions).

The only trains that went past TII, were trains to TI and the quarry, not the passenger trains. The camps were near to but not at main lines.

[*] Passengers, journalists, etc., could take these trains multiple times, often in the same day, to get a closer look, document changes or patterns over time, etc.
[*] Tourism immediately around these 'extermination camps' was actively promoted by an officially-sanctioned travel guide, including multiple restaurants well-within the area that would be saturated with corpse-burning odor and volcanic 'Holocaust-plumes' in full view

You have failed to take into account the control the Nazis had over Poland, which ceased to exist as a country, unlike the other occupied countries. The Nazis did not care what the Poles thought and in any case, many were anti-Semitic and happy to see their Jewish neighbours disappearing.

[*] Numerous phone numbers suggesting innocuous purposes and priorities (and other large companies and agencies not privy to a 'Holocaust' working nearby) for each camp. [/list]

None of the phone numbers relate to the camps, they are for the villages.

You can claim this still aligns with a 'Holocaust' mega-volcanic-24/7-cremation operation casting noxious, putrid, foul odors across the entire area at all hours of every day and somehow all laborers, Polish police, tourists (including restaurant patrons), thousands of residents, town hall and postal staff, and others didn't bother to document this heavily and inform their family, friends, or journalists, etc., overseas (neither during nor after the war), but you're hard-pressed to make this claim, since these conditions overall fit much better within a revisionist framework.

You think that the Polish police had a station inside the camp and tourists could just look in!

Nessie wrote:The Nazis were improving the local infrastructure, by expanding, the telephone system. An agriculture cooperative at Belzec and forestry office in the village of Sobibor, not the death camp as you thought, is consistent with Nazi policy regarding Poland. It was to be part of the greater Reich, and become the source of much needed food and other resources. The Poles would work for German owners, tending the fields and the forests.

These new facilities were placed within 1-mile of where 'gassing' and mass cremation pyres would have been burning non-stop. There is no rational explanation for why mass murderers would establish such mundane operations within such close proximity to their deepest, darkest secret; especially given that some of these operations were likely high-traffic for outside interests, e.g. the District Agricultural Cooperative which would have relationships with farmers, traders, laborers, etc. all within and beyond the district, seeking to make connections, find work, trade produce, etc.

Cremations were not planned for, or expected. If they had been, the Nazis would have likely moved the location of the camps, or built crematoriums. In the end, there were so many corpses, they had to go ahead with cremations and not care about the smell for the local people.

Critically, we also find that these locations are all advertised in an official tourism guide that was sanctioned by Hans Frank -- an important architect and overseer of the 'Holocaust'. Why in the hell would Hans Frank support and sign-off on such a program of tourism into and throughout 'extermination' areas under his purview?

To make the operation seem as innocuous as possible. You are getting the villages and camps mixed up again.

Nessie wrote:Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka just happened to be the nearest villages to the three main camps the Nazis used for Action Reinhardt. Of course, other activity continued in the villages and surrounding farm land and forestry. The AR camps were never going to be permanent features.

They didn't 'just happen to be the nearest villages' -- these are the locations where the camps actually were. These villages did not coincidentally have the same name as the camps; the camps were referred to by this name because these are the towns (and train stations) they were located at.

The camps were named after nearby villages. You have become very confused by that.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 9:48 am

• Regular passenger train visits with ~5-minute stops 6-10 times per day at the largest 'extermination camps', some having multiple stations in a ~4-5 mile radius

They were not stopping at the camp, they were stopping at the village stations.

I have specified the exact distance (~4-5 mile radius); which village jurisdiction they are technically in is irrelevant. The issue is the town spectacle created when the occupying power starts mysteriously producing astronomical, endless amounts of crematory smoke for days, weeks, months and beyond.

I already explained this in my last post but it's no surprise you ignore it.

Nessie wrote:The only trains that went past TII, were trains to TI and the quarry, not the passenger trains. The camps were near to but not at main lines.

Nessie, I specified the exact distance and provided a map. There is the main Malkinia-Siedlce railway line which runs <500 meters from where 'Holocaust' cremations were occurring. It's actually less than 500, closer to ~450m.

Nessie wrote:You have failed to take into account the control the Nazis had over Poland, which ceased to exist as a country, unlike the other occupied countries. The Nazis did not care what the Poles thought and in any case, many were anti-Semitic and happy to see their Jewish neighbours disappearing.

This is a lame cop-out.

"The Nazis didn't like the Poles so therefore nobody noticed the massive death-plumes spewing like a volcano for all of 1943. And the Poles were happy to enjoy foul, acrid crematory odor blowing directly into their homes all day and night, and never bothered to stand as witnesses during the war or after."

Nessie wrote:None of the phone numbers relate to the camps, they are for the villages.

Belzec (village) opened an agricultural district cooperative at the same time Jews were first being sent to Belzec (camp). Belzec village was just one (1) mile from the 'extermination camp'. It is the same place. Essentially the same is true for Sobibor. You simply assume no association between the villages and the camps despite their common naming convention which is more or less universally indicative of some administrative connection.

Nessie wrote:You think that the Polish police had a station inside the camp and tourists could just look in!

I think police tend to investigate and document things.

Nessie wrote:Cremations were not planned for, or expected. If they had been, the Nazis would have likely moved the location of the camps, or built crematoriums. In the end, there were so many corpses, they had to go ahead with cremations and not care about the smell for the local people.

More ridiculous cop-out. The issue is that the close proximity of neighboring villages and industrial operations would prevent them from moving forward with such a ridiculous cremation on already-buried corpses there to begin with. Your excuses do not explain such an absurd and unrealistic narrative, at odds further with not so much as 1% of the several thousand nearby residents reporting on the constant volcanic plume and foul stench pouring through their homes all throughout 1943.

Nessie wrote:

Critically, we also find that these locations are all advertised in an official tourism guide that was sanctioned by Hans Frank -- an important architect and overseer of the 'Holocaust'. Why in the hell would Hans Frank support and sign-off on such a program of tourism into and throughout 'extermination' areas under his purview?

To make the operation seem as innocuous as possible. You are getting the villages and camps mixed up again.

No -- you apparently lack reading comprehension as the travel guide explicitly describes the route of travel which I have already mapped and it passes directly over the actual extermination camps, in all cases.

If you are not capable of following along the discussion, Nessie, then you should not be participating.

Nessie wrote:

They didn't 'just happen to be the nearest villages' -- these are the locations where the camps actually were. These villages did not coincidentally have the same name as the camps; the camps were referred to by this name because these are the towns (and train stations) they were located at.

The camps were named after nearby villages. You have become very confused by that.

Sure, it's total coincidence that these camps were less than one mile from their namesake villages in all instances. If anything, they were named after the train stations one used to reach them (either the village(s) or the camp(s)). But even this creates an administrative link that leaves room for potential overlap and varying interpretation.

Bottom-line: it's a moot point. The issue is that these areas were far from 'isolated' and daily had many residents, travelers, laborers, commerce, etc. nearby that would create problems for a mass murder cover-up operation anywhere near the scale you allege.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 11:03 am

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 9:48 am

• Regular passenger train visits with ~5-minute stops 6-10 times per day at the largest 'extermination camps', some having multiple stations in a ~4-5 mile radius

They were not stopping at the camp, they were stopping at the village stations.

I have specified the exact distance (~4-5 mile radius); which village jurisdiction they are technically in is irrelevant. The issue is the town spectacle created when the occupying power starts mysteriously producing astronomical, endless amounts of crematory smoke for days, weeks, months and beyond.

I already explained this in my last post but it's no surprise you ignore it.

I point out your mistake, thinking the stops were at the camp, rather than the village station. This is a local timetable, for local trains, that stopped at Belzec village;



You have got very confused and attribute that to stops at the camps, with Jewish transports that came from the ghettos, when you said "Each train is stopped at the station for 3-6 minutes before departure. Does this mean the mass cremations (and screams of the 'gassings', etc.) were stopped 6+ times per day for at least several minutes, to minimize the suspicion of regular travelers?".

I have not ignored the issue over burning and smell.

Nessie wrote:The only trains that went past TII, were trains to TI and the quarry, not the passenger trains. The camps were near to but not at main lines.

Nessie, I specified the exact distance and provided a map. There is the main Malkinia-Siedlce railway line which runs <500 meters from where 'Holocaust' cremations were occurring. It's actually less than 500, closer to ~450m.

So, it is about 1/2 km away, so easily far enough for people not to be able to see into it, or witness "horror-screams".

Nessie wrote:You have failed to take into account the control the Nazis had over Poland, which ceased to exist as a country, unlike the other occupied countries. The Nazis did not care what the Poles thought and in any case, many were anti-Semitic and happy to see their Jewish neighbours disappearing.

This is a lame cop-out.

No, it is something you failed to take into account. To the Nazis, Poles and Slavic people in general, were one up from Jews, to be used as cheap, forced labour. All Poles were removed from government positions, and many of the intelligentsia were killed.

"The Nazis didn't like the Poles so therefore nobody noticed the massive death-plumes spewing like a volcano for all of 1943. And the Poles were happy to enjoy foul, acrid crematory odor blowing directly into their homes all day and night, and never bothered to stand as witnesses during the war or after."

As I go on to say, the Nazis had to switch from burial, to cremations, which were not the original plan. They did not anticipate a smell issue and when that happened, they had to just get on with that work. Who were the local Poles going to complain to anyway? Do you seriously think Poles could complain about Nazis?

Nessie wrote:None of the phone numbers relate to the camps, they are for the villages.

Belzec (village) opened an agricultural district cooperative at the same time Jews were first being sent to Belzec (camp). Belzec village was just one (1) mile from the 'extermination camp'. It is the same place. Essentially the same is true for Sobibor. You simply assume no association between the villages and the camps despite their common naming convention which is more or less universally indicative of some administrative connection.

Belzec village and the AR camp Belzec, are not the same place. They are nearby, but their function and management was completely different. Same with Sobibor and TII.

Nessie wrote:You think that the Polish police had a station inside the camp and tourists could just look in!

I think police tend to investigate and document things.

Nessie wrote:Cremations were not planned for, or expected. If they had been, the Nazis would have likely moved the location of the camps, or built crematoriums. In the end, there were so many corpses, they had to go ahead with cremations and not care about the smell for the local people.

More ridiculous cop-out. The issue is that the close proximity of neighboring villages and industrial operations would prevent them from moving forward with such a ridiculous cremation on already-buried corpses there to begin with. Your excuses do not explain such an absurd and unrealistic narrative, at odds further with not so much as 1% of the several thousand nearby residents reporting on the constant volcanic plume and foul stench pouring through their homes all throughout 1943.

It is what is evidenced to have happened. The Nazis had to switch to cremations because of the smell, ground water and the finding of the first Katyn mass grave. They had originally planned to just bury the corpses. You call that a cop out, because you want to create a narrative based on your desired beliefs, rather than dictated by the evidence.

Nessie wrote:

Critically, we also find that these locations are all advertised in an official tourism guide that was sanctioned by Hans Frank -- an important architect and overseer of the 'Holocaust'. Why in the hell would Hans Frank support and sign-off on such a program of tourism into and throughout 'extermination' areas under his purview?

To make the operation seem as innocuous as possible. You are getting the villages and camps mixed up again.

No -- you apparently lack reading comprehension as the travel guide explicitly describes the route of travel which I have already mapped and it passes directly over the actual extermination camps, in all cases.

If you are not capable of following along the discussion, Nessie, then you should not be participating.

How does it pass "over" the camps? You said "It describes numerous routes travelers can take directly through the 20-km radius around each death camp that would constantly smell of burning corpses and hair.". How admit that they would be around 1/2 km away, so how is that "over"?

Nessie wrote:

They didn't 'just happen to be the nearest villages' -- these are the locations where the camps actually were. These villages did not coincidentally have the same name as the camps; the camps were referred to by this name because these are the towns (and train stations) they were located at.

The camps were named after nearby villages. You have become very confused by that.

Sure, it's total coincidence that these camps were less than one mile from their namesake villages in all instances. If anything, they were named after the train stations one used to reach them (either the village(s) or the camp(s)). But even this creates an administrative link that leaves room for potential overlap and varying interpretation.

Bottom-line: it's a moot point. The issue is that these areas were far from 'isolated' and daily had many residents, travelers, laborers, commerce, etc. nearby that would create problems for a mass murder cover-up operation anywhere near the scale you allege.

The main issue the Nazis did not plan for, was the smell. That then created the need for the cremations. With the control the Nazis had over the Poles, they did not need to worry about complaints or what locals thought. AR was a temporary operation, so it was a temporary issue.

The only link you can find, between AR and the villages, is that AR named each camp after a nearby village.

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 12:11 pm I point out your mistake, thinking the stops were at the camp, rather than the village station. This is a local timetable, for local trains, that stopped at Belzec village;
[...]
You have got very confused and attribute that to stops at the camps, with Jewish transports that came from the ghettos, when you said "Each train is stopped at the station for 3-6 minutes before departure. Does this mean the mass cremations (and screams of the 'gassings', etc.) were stopped 6+ times per day for at least several minutes, to minimize the suspicion of regular travelers?".

Nessie, this correction already came from Hans on the previous page and it was a minor point. Belzec village and Belzec camp used the same train station and were only 1 mile apart from one another. It's the same place.

There was regular civilian traffic traveling throughout the area -- even encouraged to do so, officially.

Nessie wrote:So, it is about 1/2 km away, so easily far enough for people not to be able to see into it, or witness "horror-screams".

We are talking about volcanic plumes of smoke, which I have mentioned numerous times. I mentioned screams exactly once, on the previous page (for a different camp).

Nessie wrote:No, it is something you failed to take into account. To the Nazis, Poles and Slavic people in general, were one up from Jews, to be used as cheap, forced labour. All Poles were removed from government positions, and many of the intelligentsia were killed.

Repeating yourself doesn't make it true. Your explanation actually justifies why the Poles would not wish to keep Germany's "dark secret". Even if your insistence is that most were antisemitic, this doesn't explain most of them being okay with murder factories nor of them staying silent even post-war. Your position is clear and it makes no sense.

Nessie wrote:As I go on to say, the Nazis had to switch from burial, to cremations, which were not the original plan. They did not anticipate a smell issue and when that happened, they had to just get on with that work. Who were the local Poles going to complain to anyway? Do you seriously think Poles could complain about Nazis?

The smell was an issue, so they disinterred the corpses causing more smell, then burnt it all on pyres non-stop for a year, ensuring even more people would smell it?

The local Poles might complain to Polish police or international journalists or friends/family overseas. They might photograph it. They might at least document or publish their experiences somehow, to reflect this extraordinary spectacle which lasted non-stop for many months, rain or shine.

Nessie wrote:Belzec village and the AR camp Belzec, are not the same place. They are nearby, but their function and management was completely different. Same with Sobibor and TII.

Yes, their function and management was Operation Reinhardt which is why we find pits filled with artifacts and junk property in abundance and hardly any corpses, as you've been forced to acknowledge in the ongoing Sobibor thread.

They aren't just 'nearby'. All are within one mile of the corresponding village's center, and using the same train station (or at least referencing it, for Treblinka).

Nessie wrote:How does it pass "over" the camps? You said "It describes numerous routes travelers can take directly through the 20-km radius around each death camp that would constantly smell of burning corpses and hair.". How admit that they would be around 1/2 km away, so how is that "over"?

Nessie, 450 meters is a walking distance of ~5-7 minutes at most. To pass by a massive pyre of hundreds of corpses (which would be visible at a distance of up to ~20km or more) is incredibly close-up. All that is hidden are the flames.

Nessie wrote:The main issue the Nazis did not plan for, was the smell.

And so they created way, way, WAY more smell and a massive, volcanic beacon to show everyone exactly where the smell was coming from.

Callafangers wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 1:03 pm

Nessie wrote: ↑Sun Dec 21, 2025 12:11 pm I point out your mistake, thinking the stops were at the camp, rather than the village station. This is a local timetable, for local trains, that stopped at Belzec village;
[...]
You have got very confused and attribute that to stops at the camps, with Jewish transports that came from the ghettos, when you said "Each train is stopped at the station for 3-6 minutes before departure. Does this mean the mass cremations (and screams of the 'gassings', etc.) were stopped 6+ times per day for at least several minutes, to minimize the suspicion of regular travelers?".

Nessie, this correction already came from Hans on the previous page and it was a minor point. Belzec village and Belzec camp used the same train station and were only 1 mile apart from one another. It's the same place.

There was regular civilian traffic traveling throughout the area -- even encouraged to do so, officially.

It is a major point. It shows how easily confused you get and how little you understand evidencing.

Nessie wrote:So, it is about 1/2 km away, so easily far enough for people not to be able to see into it, or witness "horror-screams".

We are talking about volcanic plumes of smoke, which I have mentioned numerous times. I mentioned screams exactly once, on the previous page, for a different camp.

You have consistently tried to make out that train passengers are far closer to the camps than they were in reality.

Nessie wrote:No, it is something you failed to take into account. To the Nazis, Poles and Slavic people in general, were one up from Jews, to be used as cheap, forced labour. All Poles were removed from government positions, and many of the intelligentsia were killed.

Repeating yourself doesn't make it true. You're explaining why the Poles would not wish to keep Germany's "dark secret". Even if your insistence is that most were antisemitic, this doesn't explain most of them being okay with murder factories nor of them staying silent even post-war. Your position is clear and it makes no sense.

It is evidenced and makes sense, the Nazis had total control and they could do what they wanted, without any fear of repercussions from the Polish.

Nessie wrote:As I go on to say, the Nazis had to switch from burial, to cremations, which were not the original plan. They did not anticipate a smell issue and when that happened, they had to just get on with that work. Who were the local Poles going to complain to anyway? Do you seriously think Poles could complain about Nazis?

The smell was an issue, so they disinterred the corpses causing more smell, then burnt it all on pyres non-stop for a year, ensuring even more people would smell it?

The smell was one of three issues and as usual, you cherry-pick.

The local Poles might complain to Polish police or international journalists or friends/family overseas. They might photograph it. They might at least document or publish their experiences somehow, to reflect this extraordinary spectacle which lasted non-stop for many months, rain or shine.

The would be shot for doing any of that. Even when reports leaked out 1941-4, they were not being believed.

Nessie wrote:Belzec village and the AR camp Belzec, are not the same place. They are nearby, but their function and management was completely different. Same with Sobibor and TII.

Yes, their function and management was Operation Reinhardt which is why we find pits filled with artifacts and junk property in abundance and hardly any corpses, as you've been forced to acknowledge in the ongoing Sobibor thread.

They aren't just 'nearby'. All are within one mile of the corresponding village's center, using the same train station.

Evidence AR also ran the villages. I have not acknowledged there is a lack of corpses at Sobibor.

Nessie wrote:How does it pass "over" the camps? You said "It describes numerous routes travelers can take directly through the 20-km radius around each death camp that would constantly smell of burning corpses and hair.". How admit that they would be around 1/2 km away, so how is that "over"?

Nessie, 450 meters is a walking distance of ~5-7 minutes at most. To pass by a massive pyre of hundreds of corpses (which would be visible at a distance of up to ~20km or more) is incredibly close-up. All that is hidden are the flames.

You are exaggerating when you said pass over.

Nessie wrote:The main issue the Nazis did not plan for, was the smell.

And so they created way, way, WAY more smell and a massive, volcanic beacon to show everyone exactly where the smell was coming from.

That was because they had no choice, as the grave pits were smelling AND the ground water was being poisoned AND a mass grave had been found at Katyn. Stop cherry-picking, it is a logical fallacy.