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Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 12:59 am
by HansHill
Unresponsive to the original argument.

Hydrogen cyanide (HcN) is extremely volatile in its unbound state (for example its boiling point is 25 celsius). It is also lighter than air, meaning it is liable to disperse into its environment. All of this together means that unbound hcn is not expected to persist in a location on the timespan on decades.

Only iron-bound-cyanides can be expected to achieve this.

In turn this is all the equivalent of testing for a cloud in the sky in 1994 and asserting its the same cloud that has been locked in situ since 1943.
SanityCheck wrote: Tue Feb 17, 2026 9:18 pm
All of which is useful if one wanted to waste time on yet another round of discussing the mechanics of gassings, which I do not
So it seems!
The Markiewicz tests with their ultra-sensitive calibrations to exclude iron aren't an essential part of my rejection of Leuchter and Rudolf.
I appreciate the sentiment, and urge the other anti-revisionists here to follow suit, but nevertheless you are still harnessing Markiewicz-inspired rhetoric, see above.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 2:54 am
by SanityCheck
Those are later transports in 1943, with known selections.

There isn't a problem with the principle in general, since there were selections for the Schmelt camps at Cosel in 1942 before transports reached Auschwitz, as was rapidly established by postwar investigations. We also can see selections at Lublin for Majdanek with transports then being sent on to Sobibor in mid-1942, and selections at Sobibor for nearby ZALfJ of the Wasserwirtschaftsinspektion. Also a few selections for workers for Treblinka I taken from transports to Treblinka in 1942. The practice increased in 1943 with more selections, including of a Treblinka transport from the Warsaw ghetto uprising, with a small number (hundreds) sent on to Majdanek.

The question is whether this was done on a more widespread basis from other transports in especially the summer and autumn of 1942.

You can see for yourself in the USHMM Encyclopedia vol II - downloadable in full at Project Muse open access - how selections for Skarzysko-Kamienna generally worked; search for Kamienna as the z has a diacritic which won't copy easily. 128 hits for Kamienna generally confirm what is apparent from Felicja Karaj's Death Comes in Yellow, which reconstructed the 'stocking up' of Skarzysko-Kamienna with selections in the spring and summer of 1942, before whole counties were deported to Treblinka.
https://muse.jhu.edu/resource_group/59

One example prior to the ghetto entry for Skarzysko-Kamienna, is for Skarysew, Kreis Radom-Land
In the summer of 1942, young able- bodied Jews were registered for forced labor; about 50 young Jewish men were sent to a labor camp in Radom, and others were sent to the Skar{ysko-Kamienna labor camp. In the late summer of 1942, some Jewish partisans were active in the area around Skaryszew, sabotaging German vehicles and railway tracks.
The Germans transferred all the residents of the Skaryszew ghetto to Szydłowiec on August 18, 1942. The Jews gathered
in Szydłowiec were deported from there to the extermination camp in Treblinka in two large transports on September 23
and 25, 1942.
This is a typical example of a smaller town being transferred to a larger ghetto, Szydlowiec was also in Kreis Radom-Land.

Reading the entry for Szydlowiec (p.332), one sees that the September 23 and 25 1942 deportations went apparently direct to Treblinka (not noted is the breakout of some deportees from the train), with a remnant group of 600 yielding a small contingent for Skarzysko *after* the Treblinka transports had left. In November 1942, after the remnants were transferred or killed, a 'second ghetto' was authorised to entice Jews out of hiding. In January 1943 there was a split action affecting the 5,000 Jews who sought refuge there; 1000 were sent to Skarzysko and the rest to Treblinka.

If you google for Szydlowiec Skarzysko Kamienna railway route, you will swiftly see that Skarzysko is due south of Szydlowiec, 14km by road, the train journey today taking very little time. It was thus in the wrong direction entirely for a drop-off en route to Treblinka, or indeed anywhere to the east. We will come back to Szydlowiec as it shows up in a Fahrplananordnung.

A drop-off for Skarzysko would make sense for more westerly counties and cities in Distrikt Radom, but there aren't any unloadings reported for the municipalities of Kielce and Czestochowa, as examples. Both had labour camps locally for Jews held back from deportation.

So yes, we see on Fahrplananordung Nr 566 that the Włoszczowa transport was routed Kielce-Skarzysko-Radom-Deblin-Lukow-Siedlce-Treblinka. This isn't terribly helpful, as there had already been a selection for Skarzysko with two earlier transports before the September deportation; the ghetto as a whole numbered 4,279 registered in February 1942, with only a few hundred brought in from nearby communities without ghettos prior to deportation.

Sedziszow, whose deportation is outlined in Fahrplananordnung Nr 587, went the same route, and hadn't seen selections for Skarzysko earlier. But Sedziszow wasn't very big - about 400 inhabitants of the ghetto, the transport included the ghettos of Szczekociny (1300 minus two earlier selections for Skarzysko and Brieg) and Wodzisław (3800), Sedziszow was the railhead.

The return transport was to then go Szydlowiec-Radom-Deblin-Siedlce-Treblinka; and after that Kozienice-Bakowiec (nearby) - Deblin-Lukow-Siedlce-Treblinka. So the subsequent two major deportations (Arad has Szydlowiec at 10,000 and Kozienice at 13,000, subtract shootings, small labour crews but also fugitives and evaders from these numbers) went nowhere near Skarzysko, or indeed near to any realistic labour camp drop-off point, since Radom had its workers already and lots of survivors, who don't seem to be reporting any drop-offs, ditto for Deblin-Irena which had one of the longest lasting ZALfJs and thus also lots of survivors.

Czestochowa (Fahrplananordnung Nr 594, 21 September 1942) went Czestochowa-Piotrkow-Koluszki-Skierniewice-Warsaw-Malkinia-Treblinka. The Piotrkow ghetto was liquidated a few weeks later with only 2-3000 remaining, these survivors yielded a Skarzysko contingent in early 1943. Koluszki, Kreis Tomaschow, was likewise liquidated in October 1942 with no labour camp left behind. Kreis Skierniewice had been made entirely judenrein in March 1941. There was a correction issued mentioning Lochow, which was a village ghetto in Kreis Sokolow, i.e. very close to Treblinka, and which was deported at the same time (25 September 1942), and Sadowne, a village in Węgrów county, in the war part of Kreis Sokolow, where there was evidently no ghetto.


The fate of smaller labour camps shows up a lot in the encyclopedia entries, fitting with earlier surveys (the 1979 Polish encyclopedia and the study by Josef Marszalek). USHMM Encyclopedia vol VI when it appears will add more detail and confirmation.

Marta Woźniak, ‘ “And the Earth Was Still Moving…” The Massacre of Jews in Szczeglacin in Eyewitness’ Testimonies’, Holocaust: Studies and Materials (2010), 451-465 – a forced labour camp near Korczew, Siedlce county, Distrikt Warschau, wiped out on 22 October 1942
https://www.zagladazydow.pl/index.php/z ... ew/142/137

more on the ZAL here - it employed Jews from Sokołów and Węgrów over its lifespan in 1940-42, working on river regulation. Both communities also supplying the initial workforce for Treblinka I and II. To get to Siedlce county one has to go north from Sokołów and Węgrów counties (these being where Treblinka was, to clarify).
https://zapomniane.org/en/miejsce/szczeglacin-2/


Distrikt Warschau with its 60 ghettos should be an acid test for you. 29 of these ghettos were transferred into the Warsaw ghetto before Treblinka II became operational, clearing four Kreise/counties entirely. Five Kreise in the province outside of Warsaw city saw deportations to Treblinka.

Warsaw city to Treblinka as indicated in Fahrplananordnung Nr 548 from 3 August 1942 went Warsaw-Tluszcz-Malkinia-Treblinka with a nominal journey time of one hour and fifty-five minutes. Tluszcz was one of several ghettos in Kreis Warschau-Land that was cleared in May 1942. There was a very small selection for work on an agricultural estate at Wilanów, which is now part of the Warsaw conurbation.

The Great Deportation from Warsaw city cannot be explained by reference to dropping off part of the deportees at labour camps before reaching Treblinka, not until one gets past Malkinia, since Treblinka I was south of Malkinia. Israel Cymlich, one of the few survivors of Treblinka I from this phase, was deported from Warsaw to Treblinka and his wagon was selected for Treblinka I in August 1942, while the train was idling in the stretch between Malkinia and Treblinka II.


This is where revisionist straw-clutching about Malkinia is so damaging to the revisionist thesis. The rail gauge argument is entirely moot as the Malkinia-Bialystok-Minsk line was regauged in 1941, as this was a major supply artery for the Eastern Front and Army Group Centre. If one was organising transports beyond the Government-General, one would either simply schedule trains to be taken over by Haupteisenbahndirektion Mitte once they passed Malkinia, or one would have set up a transit camp at Malkinia so that trains could be retained by Gedob and other trains pick up the deportees for onward transit, if that is the supposed logic. But they did not. One would not have parked a transit camp at Treblinka off the Malkinia line especially for the Warsaw ghetto when there is a straight line from Warsaw-Malkinia-Bialystok-Baranovichi-Minsk into Belarus. The distance of 5-6 km between Malkinia and Treblinka is a huge hassle for no good reason.

One would not have routed transports as with the Włoszczowa, Szydlowiec and Kozienice Fahrplananordung via Lukow, a town in the Lublin district, to the east of Malkinia and Treblinka. The Lukow-Siedlce-Treblinka route approaches Treblinka from the south, and doesn't need to pass through Malkinia first.

Which also means Siedlce, Sokolow Podlaski, Wegrow, Lukow, Radzyn, Biala Podlaska and Miedzyrzec Podlaski also come from the south, just as we see in Fahrplananordnung Nr 565 for Lukow-Siedlce-Treblinka and Fahrplananordung Nr 562 for Miedzyrzec Podlaski-Lukow-Siedlce-Treblinka. And by logic also the Deblin-Irena autumn 1942 deportation to Treblinka.

Bezirk Bialystok transports travelling south-west hit Malkinia on the border very quickly and thus had essentially no stops within the Government-General and Distrikt Warschau before reaching Treblinka. The logic of sending those transports southwest when they had mostly originated from explicit collection camps which could easily have sent trains east, if they were meant to go east, has always escaped me. This has never once been explained coherently by a revisionist, much as the east-west transports from Distrikt Galizien to Belzec have never been explained.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 2:57 am
by SanityCheck
HansHill wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 12:59 am Unresponsive to the original argument.
I don't give a shit, as the entire discussion is a tedious waste of time. Consider that my forum-level response for the indefinite future on this issue.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 3:10 am
by HansHill
SanityCheck wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 2:57 am
HansHill wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 12:59 am Unresponsive to the original argument.
I don't give a shit, as the entire discussion is a tedious waste of time. Consider that my forum-level response for the indefinite future on this issue.
Understood.

I will however make a note for mod review: in future instances if / when Dr Terry comments authoritatively and / or decisively on chemistry matters, i will continue to isolate and highlight them for the forum’s attention where lacking and / or wrong.

I don’t want this to be construed as bullying or antagonism due to his reluctance to comment, because i feel i have demonstrated all due etiquette where appropriate.

I will offer my own return “forum level” response to this stance: discussing the murder weapon of a genocide is not “a tedious waste of time” especially since the experts cannot be demonstrated to understand it.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 3:35 am
by HansHill
Hans Hill; Zyklon Police

Image

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:57 am
by Nazgul
SanityCheck wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 2:54 am Bezirk Bialystok transports travelling south-west hit Malkinia on the border very quickly and thus had essentially no stops within the Government-General and Distrikt Warschau before reaching Treblinka. The logic of sending those transports southwest when they had mostly originated from explicit collection camps which could easily have sent trains east, if they were meant to go east, has always escaped me. This has never once been explained coherently by a revisionist, much as the east-west transports from Distrikt Galizien to Belzec have never been explained.
Scheduled to depart on September 30, 1942, from the Polish town of Sedziszow [Fahrplananordnung 587].

Thanks for the detailed points about transports to Treblinka. I want to clarify that my focus is specifically on summer–autumn 1942, particularly FPLO 587 and similar routes, before Treblinka II closed and before the major 1943 deportations. The stops on FPLO 587 — Kielce, Skarżysko-Kamienna, Radom, Dęblin, Łuków, and Siedlce — all coincide with Jewish labour camps or regional work hubs. These halts, lasting 25 minutes to over an hour, appear to be planned operational stops rather than occasional selections.

Many of the examples cited about 1943 transports don’t really apply here. FPLO 587 shows that early deportation trains were not direct point-to-Treblinka movements, but instead followed a pattern of stops at labour-camp locations, reflecting how the rail and administrative system operated at the time.

Looking at FPLO 587 and similar timetables, it’s clear that these documents reflect actual train operations, not evidence of “death trains.” Even if a direct SS operation had occurred, the timetable itself would not have been necessary, since the SS could have moved trains independently of normal schedules. FPLO documents are useful for understanding the movement of labour and regional logistics, but they cannot be taken as proof of extermination transports.

If the goal had been a highly secret mass-murder operation, it’s unlikely the SS would have relied on FPLO timetables at all. These were official Reichsbahn schedules for routine coordination, visible to multiple administrative levels. A truly secret operation wouldn’t need to appear in normal railway documentation.

Finally, some claims — like Hilberg’s statement that all Jews were sent directly to Treblinka — don’t align with the historical transport evidence. I’m not denying the tragedy; it absolutely happened. But presenting oversimplified or inaccurate claims doesn’t honor the reality. Understanding the true logistical and operational patterns helps preserve the dignity of the victims by keeping the historical record accurate.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 8:19 pm
by Callafangers
SanityCheck wrote:...
Here is a brief outline of SC's latest response/arguments to me:
  • Revisionist grave/cremation claims fail without historical explanation (deportees vanish from record; must locate Z% uncremated).
  • Muehlenkamp rebuttals valid (fuel/grave capacity critiques; predate some Mattogno updates?).
  • Belzec: Child skew overrepresentation (Galicia unfit deported first, per Korherr/Katzmann → lower density).
  • Escapes/train-jumpers widespread (Arad 1987; Bruder 2018 ignored by Mattogno).
  • Kola findings: 10/33 graves waxy/unexhumed (Kuwalek/Berger cite; lowers average fuel needs via incomplete cremation).
  • GPR/incomplete grave detection (Sturdy-Colls notes lower-camp graves; Treblinka memorials interfere).
  • Fuel records destroyed = non-argument; exaggerated needs assume 100% incineration (unrealistic).
  • Revisionism zaps 222 communities' deportees sans trace (e.g., Neuschwabenland UFOs?).
Dr. Terry, your concessions continue to mount: AR camps' core physical predictions (e.g., Treblinka upper-camp mega-graves/fuel for ~800k) now admitted as untenable, so your prompting pivots to "historical refinements" (20-80% en-route DOAs/escapes buried in lower-camp/rail graves; 10/33 Belzec unexhumed waxy layers). Yet repeated digs (Kola/Mazurek/Sturdy-Colls) yield only sparse economic debris and scattered remains -- nowhere near city-slaughter scale, a resounding null for extermination but perfect corroboration for revisionism (ghetto/train disease deaths, sanitation/economic ops). Hoefle/deportation totals do not equate to 'gassings' (revisionist transit/resettlement fits precisely); "we may never know exact number" admits inherent unfalsifiability against measurable null results. Muehlenkamp's 2010s critiques predate Mattogno's ~250kg+/corpse updates in TORC which has been further updated to >400kg/corpse per peer-reviewed data (see 2018 study, discussed in 2024 by Rudolf); child skew reduces volume by trivial ~12% at best (already explained). Bruder/Arad escapes merely multiply your unproven rail graves (zero quantified traces unearthed); "destroyed records" ('dog ate my homework') dodges Treblinka's still-unprecedented 280M kg wood (largest burning operation ever, sans supply chain/endless smoke witnesses).

Your "~34 GG cremation sites" expand the conspiracy without resolving AR impossibilities -- none remotely approach claimed biblical scale.

SC is still Evading (Unchallenged Since OP):
  • FeCN/Prussian Blue at Birkenau: Rudolf's comprehensive modeling (exposure/kinetics/stability) stands unrefuted; your own Markiewicz unbound-HCN volatility concession undermines it—Prussian Blue alone is the stable, decades-long fingerprint.
  • Birkenau Crematoria Capacity/Maintenance: No refractory brick maintenance records or air-photo pyre activity matching 1.1M toll; T4/multi-corpse parallels irrelevant to industrial scale.
  • Overlapping Cremations Math: Maximum ~10-15% time reduction (lean corpses yield ~40k kcal available, 54% furnace efficiency → ~30-40k usable vs. 200-330k demand/corpse); multi-corpse airflow/draft/timing losses negate further gains.
  • Sobibor Grave Volumes/Contents: Mazurek excavations directly contradict Kola's initial "dense" Graves 1/2/7 (empty or mostly empty); objective maximum ~2.7k-17k corpses.
  • AR Fuel/Wood Scale: Treblinka ~350kg/corpse × even reduced toll = 280M kg (unprecedented, unevidenced "local" supply); no relentless Polish smoke/mushroom-cloud witnesses.
  • Falsifiability/Scientific Legitimacy: Monuments legally block decisive excavation (Lukasciewicz/Mazurek/Sturdy-Colls uncover economic ops, not mass graves); "historical convergence" renders claims inherently non-risky.
Quantify your Treblinka wood supply/process (and graves) for your revised toll/sites, Dr. Terry, or point us to an academic/scholar in your camp who can or will -- that, or concede the physical evidence debate lost.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 8:31 pm
by SanityCheck
Nazgul wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:57 am Thanks for the detailed points about transports to Treblinka. I want to clarify that my focus is specifically on summer–autumn 1942, particularly FPLO 587 and similar routes, before Treblinka II closed and before the major 1943 deportations. The stops on FPLO 587 — Kielce, Skarżysko-Kamienna, Radom, Dęblin, Łuków, and Siedlce — all coincide with Jewish labour camps or regional work hubs. These halts, lasting 25 minutes to over an hour, appear to be planned operational stops rather than occasional selections.

Many of the examples cited about 1943 transports don’t really apply here. FPLO 587 shows that early deportation trains were not direct point-to-Treblinka movements, but instead followed a pattern of stops at labour-camp locations, reflecting how the rail and administrative system operated at the time.
As I said, the principle is fine, but you need confirmation and corroboration; the labour camps even at Skarzysko never exceeeded low five figures, and the others were often much smaller (Deblin-Irena was a few thousand, for example, evidently local inhabitants). The labour camps that survived into 1944 left many survivors, from whom we learn about transfers at various stages if they're not documented in German records.
Looking at FPLO 587 and similar timetables, it’s clear that these documents reflect actual train operations, not evidence of “death trains.” Even if a direct SS operation had occurred, the timetable itself would not have been necessary, since the SS could have moved trains independently of normal schedules. FPLO documents are useful for understanding the movement of labour and regional logistics, but they cannot be taken as proof of extermination transports.

If the goal had been a highly secret mass-murder operation, it’s unlikely the SS would have relied on FPLO timetables at all. These were official Reichsbahn schedules for routine coordination, visible to multiple administrative levels. A truly secret operation wouldn’t need to appear in normal railway documentation.
The SS did not control the trains, Gedob and the Reichsbahn did.

You are applying the fallacy of division here, which Robert Van Pelt explained in his report for Irving vs Lipstadt (p.204 of PDF version):
It suffers from the fallacy of division, which arises when one argues from the properties of a whole (the general secrecy of the “Final Solution”) to the properties of the constituent parts of that whole (a discussion about the electricity supply to a crematorium equipped with gas chambers). There is of course no reason to assume that what is true of the whole is true of all the parts, and that evidence for the existence of a largely secret operation may not be derived from parts of that operation that were not secret. In fact, experience shows that the best ways not to attract attention to a secret operation is to not to attract attention to the secrecy, and consequently assign the qualification of “secret’ to as few documents as possible—also in the bureaucracy one hides best in a crowd.
The deportations from cities and towns could not be hidden or kept secret, nor could the train transports leaving the cities and towns. Utilising Gedob required that some officials were brought in to plan overall schedules, while train crews would not miss how transports arrived at particular destinations. The latter could be told to mind their own business and not blab, which was also a common policy towards many in the civil administration - don't ask what is happening to the deportees. It wasn't sufficient to cover up the destinations from both Poles and Jews.

There is a report on a planning conference at the Transport Ministry in Berlin over September 26-28 1942, attended by IV B 4 as well as officials of the Transport Ministry. It is quoted in among other sources Arad 1987, p.52
Evacuation of the Polish jews
Urgent transports as proposed by the Chief of the Security Police and
the SD:
2 trains daily from the Warsaw district to Treblinka
1 train daily from the Radom district to Treblinka
1 train daily from the Cracow district to Belzec
1 train daily from the Lvov district to Belzec
These transports will be carried out with the 200 freight cars already made available for this purpose by order of the Directorate of the German railways in Cracow, as far as this is possible. Upon completion of the repair of the Lublin-Chelm line, about November 1942, the other urgent transports will also be carried out.
These are:
1 train daily from the Radom district to Sobibor
1 train daily from the north Lublin district to Belzec
1 train daily from the central Lublin district to Sobibor
insofar as this is practicable and the required number of freight cars are available. With the reduction of the transport of potatoes, it is expected that it will be possible for the special train service to be able to place at the disposal of the Directorate of the German railway in Cracow the necessary freight cars. Thus the train transportation required will be available in accordance with the above proposals and the plan completed this year.
The conference also discussed plans to deport 200,000 Romanian Jews to Belzec, which was cancelled soon afterwards when Antonescu signalled his refusal of the German plans/proposal.

There are no documents on organising onward transports from the named camps, while surviving lists of Sondertransporte for specific time-frames don't show any, either.
Finally, some claims — like Hilberg’s statement that all Jews were sent directly to Treblinka — don’t align with the historical transport evidence. I’m not denying the tragedy; it absolutely happened. But presenting oversimplified or inaccurate claims doesn’t honor the reality. Understanding the true logistical and operational patterns helps preserve the dignity of the victims by keeping the historical record accurate.
As I said, the principle is not wrong - if there is evidence of unloading or selections of labourers for labour camps en route, then this revises the history. But there is currently no such evidence.

Meanwhile, survivors of Treblinka II as well as train-jumpers report on their own deportation transports with no mention of unloading, and a fair bit of discussion of hellish conditions for the summer and high summer/Indian summer of 1942.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 8:38 pm
by Stubble
'Fangers, I think SC told us if we don't like his history on the Bug river camps, to write our own and he will read it and critique where he can.

Bludgeoning him with it doesn't seem to be getting the desired effect. He is going to try to defend the ink on the page.

This lead to the almost comical 'Oregon Trail' proposal (if this subject were not so dire, I'd be splitting my ribs with rich laughter) and a series of other pivots. There no doubt will be more.

When inevitably asked 'but, is this a Rhinehart jew' the answer needs to be an unassailable and demonstrable 'Yes'. Otherwise, it's 6,000,000 years of Whack a Mole.

Nick will not be seriously answering 'where'd they go', he's got some [tm] real history to be working on. I doubt any of that will be correcting any of the collective errors or incestuous citations of his peers on that side of the fence.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:22 pm
by Callafangers
Stubble wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 8:38 pm 'Fangers, I think SC told us if we don't like his history on the Bug river camps, to write our own and he will read it and critique where he can.

Bludgeoning him with it doesn't seem to be getting the desired affect. He is going to try to defend the ink on the page.

This lead to the almost comical 'Oregon Trail' proposal (if this subject were not so dire, I'd be splitting my ribs with rich laughter) and a series of other pivots. There no doubt will be more.

When inevitably asked 'but, is this a Rhinehart jew' the answer needs to be an unassailable and demonstrable 'Yes'. Otherwise, it's 6,000,000 years of Whack a Mole.

Nick will not be seriously answering 'where'd they go', he's got some [tm] real history to be working on. I doubt any of that will be correcting any of the collective errors or incestuous citations of his peers on that side of the fence.
Fair enough, I am just hoping he can point us to a qualified person in his camp who can answer these questions. Even if he is not the scholar to address these matters, surely revisionist arguments are so weak/fragile that he can point to someone competent in 'debunking [physical evidence] denial'?

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:28 pm
by Stubble
Oh, not at all, he think's he's done it handily by pointing at Hoffle and Korherr and some other ink on a page.

He doesn't think he needs physical evidence.

Same with the chemistry. He doesn't need to explain something inexplicable, he can literally just say '320,000 Hungarian Jews were gassed at Auschwitz'. He won't even look at the mainstream sources that show there aren't that many missing and revise that.

He still thinks there's almost 6,000,000 jews in the dirt in various states in the former GG, RKO and RKU.

I don't think asking him if he can point to where will change one jot nor one tittle of his work.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:37 pm
by SanityCheck
Callafangers wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 8:19 pmQuantify your Treblinka wood supply/process (and graves) for your revised toll/sites, Dr. Terry, or point us to an academic/scholar in your camp who can or will -- that, or concede the physical evidence debate lost.
I've repeatedly pointed out that these variables cannot be realistically quantified to the apparent level of precision demanded. The demand to quantify them thus misses the fucking point.

Moreover, revisionist attempts to quantify wood requirements don't work because there are no records of fuel supply in general, whereas there IS evidence from war crimes investigations in the 1940s, subsequent observations and recent archaeology, that cremation took place at these sites, generating cremains

Your side is therefore unable to specify the threshold of possibility, which is hugely problematic when your side repeatedly singles out the largest camps for incredulity, specifically Treblinka and Belzec. To the west of those camps were Auschwitz-Birkenau and Chelmno, to the east were entire regions where Jews were slaughtered in mass shootings.

The Radom District has come up recently because of Nazgul's interest in the Gedob train schedules; there were up to 375,000 Jews in the region before deportation, inhabiting 101 ghettos, and a very high proportion were deported to Treblinka, with 10s of 1000s escaping, at least 10,000 shot, and 10s of 1000s held back for labour. The transport schedules confirm witnesses from Czestochowa and Kielce who survived Treblinka II as early or later escapees.

By contrast, the Wolhynien region (Generalbezirk Wolhynien-Podolien) saw no deportations out of the region and an exclusive use of mass shootings. Many 10s of 1000s were shot in 1941, at the start of 1942 there were 330,000 Jews recorded by the Germans in this region, consisting of the Belarusian Polesie, Polish Volhynia and Soviet Podolia. At the start of 1943 there was essentially a single work ghetto and the other ghettos (135 in all) had been violently eliminated. Certainly well over 375,000 Jews were killed in this region, more than from the Radom District.

Due to the speed of the Soviet advance and lack of preparation, Aktion 1005 did not operate in this region to a significant degree. But Sonderkommando 1005-Mitte did carry out exhumations and open air cremations at Pinsk and near Brest-Litovsk, at the Bronnaia Gora killing site. These cremations were noted at the time by Soviet partisan units, and the arrival of Sonderkommando 1005 was noted in contemporary German military records. Both ghettos had extensive documentation including population registers, both actions are recorded in contemporary German reports, both towns had seen earlier killings which in the case of Brest had not been covered up, so the 1941 mass grave was located after the war.

Elsewhere, the Soviet Extraordinary Commission could locate the mass graves from 1941 and 1942, such as the Sosenki Forest killing site outside Rivne (Rovno, Rowne) from November 1941 (this action was also noted in a police signal intercepted by the British).

So where's the logic from revisionists and what is the threshold for 'impossible' cremation?

The Jews of Rivne were killed in several shooting actions over 1941-2 and their bodies were not exhumed or cremated by the Germans; over 20,000 victims.

Well over 80% of the Jews of GK Wolhynien were not cremated.

The Jews of Pinsk were killed in three shooting actions in August 1941 (up to 9000), the turn of October/November 1942 (16,200) and in December 1942 (a remnant 1000 workers), and Sonderkommando 1005-Mitte visited in 1944 to exhume and cremate many of them.

The Jews of Kielce were deported primarily in August 1942 to Treblinka, when 20,000 were deported, while 2500 were killed in the action, with Aktion 1005 being organised in the city in 1944 to deal with much smaller mass graves. How can you be sure that the deportees from Kielce weren't dead and buried then exhumed and cremated at Treblinka? They mostly arrived during the 'breakdown' so apparently suffered high transport losses and were shot down on arrival to a significant degree. Can you really exclude this particular ghetto action? Which ghettos and transports ended up buried then exhumed and cremated while others were sent somewhere else? None of the revisionist arguments can explain this. None of the revisionist texts from Mattogno can specify the threshold, so they're fucking useless as arguments.

Meanwhile, in 1941-2, 145,000 Jews and up to 5,000 Roma were taken to Chelmno, killed there in gas vans, as is documented, and then cremated in field crematoria, as is also documented, the cremations starting in mid-1942 and ending some time before the first closure of the camp in April 1943 (so over quite a lengthy time-frame). Another 7,000 were killed and cremated in 1944. The supply of wood for the field crematoria came from the local forestry official Heinrich May, who recorded this in an account written down before the end of the war. But oh! He didn't specify how much wood - a data point that is forever lost from the historical record. He did however provide a direct source from a contemporary eyewitness that wood was brought in to carry out the cremations.

We have reports from Dresden in 1945 specifying the cremation to ash of 6,865 victims of the firebombing of 13/14 February 1945 taking place over a twelve day period, without these sources specifying the quantities of straw, wood or gasoline used. So be careful when you try to impose a requirement on open air cremations of non-German victims that would not be met for this documented and beyond all reasonable doubt open air cremation of German victims, lest you reveal yourself as a complete hypocrite.


Explain the logic and thresholds. Clearly you want to lower the level of 'possible' mass cremations. But how far? And with what objective criteria? There don't appear to be any, since all you have are repeated insistences from Guru Mattogno that cremating a human body requires hundreds of kg of wood.

Why would the Warsaw and Radom Districts become anomalies whereas the Warthegau and Wolhynien-Podolien apparently line up neatly with evidence of fuel supply, a lower number to be cremated in the Warthegau, vs over 300,000 corpses in mass graves which weren't exhumed and cremated, and some 10s of 1000s who were cremated, in Wolhynien.

There isn't any historical evidence to explain why the Warsaw and Radom Districts become anomalies in this scheme, so revisionist arguments aren't historical. If of course you wish to contest the Warthegau and Wolhynien as well, or just the Warthegau while failing to have a convincing argument against the mass shooting of hundreds of thousands of Jews in Wolhynien, then it looks like the lack of historical evidence and historical arguments will just expand ad infinitum.

Re: Why does SanityCheck evade the Physical Evidence Question?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:45 pm
by Stubble
SanityCheck wrote: Wed Feb 18, 2026 9:37 pm
Due to the speed of the Soviet advance and lack of preparation, Aktion 1005 did not operate in this region to a significant degree. But Sonderkommando 1005-Mitte did carry out exhumations and open air cremations at Pinsk and near Brest-Litovsk, at the Bronnaia Gora killing site. These cremations were noted at the time by Soviet partisan units, and the arrival of Sonderkommando 1005 was noted in contemporary German military records. Both ghettos had extensive documentation including population registers, both actions are recorded in contemporary German reports, both towns had seen earlier killings which in the case of Brest had not been covered up, so the 1941 mass grave was located after the war.
Thank you for giving me a tighter geographical location to focus on 'where they goed'. Surely resolving this one will help me resolve the other. (You see, there is still an outstanding balance of missing)

The bolded part, if you find some time, can you link that please? I will start hitting some books and doing due diligence on my end, but, if you have your references handy, you could save me some time.