Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[Nessie]

You are lying. The Poles excavated in 1945. You misrepresent the archaeological evidence, as you cannot bring yourself to accept that it proves large areas of disturbed ground, containing cremated human remains, are at the camp, corroborating the witness claims of mass graves and cremations.

The irony - its you who are misrepesenting the archaeological evidence. The Poles dug exactly where Rajzman guided them to. They left completely empty handed after a five (5) day dig. Stop embarrassing yourself.

You have cherry-picked one paragraph and misunderstood it. The Judge states mass graves are no longer to be found, meaning he did not find mass graves full of corpses. Instead, as he details elsewhere in his report, he found large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains, consistent with the witness evidence that the original mass graves had been exhumed and the corpses cremated and mixed back into the ground.

You are lying when you claim they left empty-handed.

[HansHill]

Look for mass graves: don't find anything
Look for gas chambers: don't find anything

What a monumental own goal.

[Nessie]

Look for mass graves: don't find anything

Find that the witnesses were correct, the mass graves had been dug up, corpses exhumed, cremated and reburied.

Look for gas chambers: don't find anything

Find the remains of a demolished building, in the location witness stated for the gas chambers, with construction that matched witness descriptions of the building.

What a monumental own goal.

By you, as yet again you get caught lying about the evidence.

[Callafangers]

Look for mass graves: don't find anything
Look for gas chambers: don't find anything

What a monumental own goal.

The art of anti-revisionism lies in explaining away why things there should necessarily be evidence for are lacking it, whenever examined critically or openly.

[Nessie]

Look for mass graves: don't find anything
Look for gas chambers: don't find anything

What a monumental own goal.

The art of anti-revisionism lies in explaining away why things there should necessarily be evidence for are lacking it, whenever examined critically or openly.

How do you explain away the huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains at TII, in the area of the camp witnesses located the main mass graves?

[Callafangers]

How do you explain away the huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains at TII, in the area of the camp witnesses located the main mass graves?

What does "disturbance" necessarily prove, Nessie? Let's talk corpses: how many actually unearthed, reasonably quantified or measured in any way? Ten percent of what you claim? One percent? 0.1%? 0.01%?

Remember Carl Sagan's sixth principle:

Quantify. If whatever it is you’re explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you’ll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=308

[Nessie]

What does "disturbance" necessarily prove, Nessie? Let's talk corpses: how many actually unearthed, reasonably quantified or measured in any way? Ten percent of what you claim? One percent? 0.1%? 0.01%?

Remember Carl Sagan's sixth principle:

The ground disturbances corroborate the witness descriptions that mass graves were dug, corpses piled in, they were exhumed, cremated and the remains mixed back into the ground.

Very few actual corpses were unearthed, hence it is correct to say that the original mass graves full of corpses had been successfully altered by the Nazis, to a mass of disturbed ground that prevented body counts, identification or establishing the cause of death.

[HansHill]

How do you explain away the huge areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains at TII, in the area of the camp witnesses located the main mass graves?

What does "disturbance" necessarily prove, Nessie? Let's talk corpses: how many actually unearthed, reasonably quantified or measured in any way? Ten percent of what you claim? One percent? 0.1%? 0.01%?

Remember Carl Sagan's sixth principle:

Quantify. If whatever it is you’re explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you’ll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.

https://www.codohforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=308

The ground disturbances corroborate the witness descriptions that mass graves were dug, corpses piled in, they were exhumed, cremated and the remains mixed back into the ground.

Very few actual corpses were unearthed, hence it is correct to say that the original mass graves full of corpses had been successfully altered by the Nazis, to a mass of disturbed ground that prevented body counts, identification or establishing the cause of death.

In one place the simultaneous explosion of several bombs had created a huge crater. Deep down in the hole, some outlines could be dimly seen through the fog.

R. Auerbach, “In the Fields of Treblinka,”

Congratulations, you found a bomb crater in a warzone. Embarrassing.

[Nessie]

What does "disturbance" necessarily prove, Nessie? Let's talk corpses: how many actually unearthed, reasonably quantified or measured in any way? Ten percent of what you claim? One percent? 0.1%? 0.01%?

Remember Carl Sagan's sixth principle:

The ground disturbances corroborate the witness descriptions that mass graves were dug, corpses piled in, they were exhumed, cremated and the remains mixed back into the ground.

Very few actual corpses were unearthed, hence it is correct to say that the original mass graves full of corpses had been successfully altered by the Nazis, to a mass of disturbed ground that prevented body counts, identification or establishing the cause of death.

In one place the simultaneous explosion of several bombs had created a huge crater. Deep down in the hole, some outlines could be dimly seen through the fog.

R. Auerbach, “In the Fields of Treblinka,”

Congratulations, you found a bomb crater in a warzone. Embarrassing.

You are caught cherry-picking again. Your reliance on obvious logical fallacies and inability to learn not to fall for them, is embarrassing for you. Yes, there were bomb craters. They disturbed the buried cremated human remains. The grave robbers did the same. That is why the Poles did not need to excavate large areas, to prove buried, cremated remains.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16657363

"...several larger pits were recorded in areas suggested by witnesses as the locations of mass graves and cremation sites.
One is 26m long, 17m wide and at least four metres deep, with a ramp at the west end and a vertical edge to the east.
Another five pits of varying sizes and also at least this deep are located nearby."

What were the Nazis burying at TII, in huge pits, if it was not corpses? Show your evidence.

[Stubble]

How much 'disturbed earth' is there reflected in the lidar study Nessie?

Now, contrast that with the idea of 2 hectares 7 meters deep...

Your mass grave if apparent in the study by Ms Colls, falls miserably short of the capacity you claim.

The bodies alleged don't even fit in the space as a liquid.

Are any of the 'burial pits' bomb craters? We don't know, they weren't probed.

Ms Colls did find some cremains left by people (in violation of the law) on the monument though, and some bodies in a cemetery...

You are still misrepresenting the facts about the studies...

[Nessie]

How much 'disturbed earth' is there reflected in the lidar study Nessie?

None. LIDAR only looked at the surface. As for the total found by GPR and electrical resistance, I have not totalled that.

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

See page 470 to 480.

Now, contrast that with the idea of 2 hectares 7 meters deep...

Your mass grave if apparent in the study by Ms Colls, falls miserably short of the capacity you claim.

I don't claim specific capacities, since the actual size of the original graves, the areas dug up to exhume the corpses and rebury the cremated remains are unknown. They can only be estimated.

However, an area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep, is 140,000m3, or the equivalent to 56 Olympic sized swimming pools, which is an area big enough in which to bury c850,000 corpses.

The bodies alleged don't even fit in the space as a liquid.

You don't even say how much space there is!

Are any of the 'burial pits' bomb craters? We don't know, they weren't probed.

Ms Colls did find some cremains left by people (in violation of the law) on the monument though, and some bodies in a cemetery...

You are still misrepresenting the facts about the studies...

Where is your evidence to prove that the cremated remains found during walk over surveys, and that were reported to appear after heavy rain, are from cremains left by people visiting the camp and not cremains that were buried by the Nazis?

You are rather vague about what I am misrepresenting. Between what the Poles found in 1945, and later site surveys, I am confident that there is evidence to prove a lot of digging took place by the Nazis, who buried a lot of cremated remains and the camp site could hold grave space for c850,000 corpses.

[Stubble]

See page 231...

Go, look at page 231...

Figure 4.36

[Nessie]

See page 231...

Go, look at page 231...

Figure 4.36

Then go to pages 470 to 480 and see what G32, G44, G1, G4, G38, G36, G50-54, identified as pits and F9, F17, F18 and F20-22, identified as depressions, are further described as and if any match being only caused by an explosion.

[Stubble]

Then go look at them in figure 4.36...

I don't know what to tell you Nessie. The alleged, proposed grave space is woefully insufficient, haphazard and unsampled.

/shrug

It's also not 2 hectares and 7m deep. It just isn't.

You continue to misrepresent what is contained in the paper as supporting the extraordinary commission's allegations when it in fact, does not. At all.

[Nessie]

Then go look at them in figure 4.36...

I don't know what to tell you Nessie. The alleged, proposed grave space is woefully insufficient, haphazard and unsampled.

/shrug

It's also not 2 hectares and 7m deep. It just isn't.

You continue to misrepresent what is contained in the paper as supporting the extraordinary commission's allegations when it in fact, does not. At all.

The 1945 Polish report described an area of 2 hectares, up to 7m deep containing disturbed ground and cremated remains. I do not think that means the entire 2 hectare area is made up of disturbed ground and it is all up to 7m deep. I do think that area alone, is enough space to fit huge mass graves, for c850,000 corpses.

C S-C geophysical survey identified 6 pits to the east of the main memorial, some of which run under it. That is the area where witnesses state the main mass graves were located.

It is the same area that the 1944 aerial photo shows as disturbed ground (3);



The photo also shows rectangular outlines in the Lazarette (2) which also had grave pits.