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If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2025 6:20 am
by Stubble
Image

Aktion 1005 was absolutely diabolical!

Source: Pg. 349 in Made in Russia: The Holocaust by Carlos Whitlock Porter.

Wait, they were sent to jewish families to intimidate them? Now I'm confused, were they smashed as part of Aktion 1005? Or were they sent to the families to intimidate them? Something doesn't add up! I thought this was 'Proven At Nuremberg'.

https://academic.oup.com/gh/article-abs ... ogin=false

Also, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but, there was a fee associated with delivery of cremains by the German Authorities, thus, these jews who received an urn paid to be intimidated by the Gestapo even late into the war.

This also implies a registry of those who died under the stewardship of 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔗𝔥𝔦𝔯𝔡 ℜ𝔢𝔦𝔠𝔥, I'm looking at you Auschwitz death books...

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 10:08 am
by Hektor
Urns are for single corpse cremation... A slight contradiction to the assertion that the crematories were part of an industrial scale extermination program.

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2025 1:46 pm
by Stubble
You know Hektor, you're not wrong, and that makes a lot of sense.

You know what doesn't make sense, it was proven at Nuremberg that these urns were part of the infamous Aktion 1005 and were filled with remains to be destroyed. That's one path one can choose for their choose your own holocaust path, but there is another path inside the official trademarked historiography as well. The other thesis is that these urns were 'used by the Gestapo to intimidate jewish families'.

I lean toward your assessment, that the reason for single muffle cremation ovens and urns was to collect single ashes to return remains to families, as that makes the most sense. That doesn't seem to be a selection for 'choose your own holocaust' inside the official historiography however.

Odd how that works.

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:49 am
by Archie
We had an thread about the urns on the old forum but I can't find it.

Here's a passage where Pressac discusses the urns. He notes that the dates of death and cremation on the urns often indicate a lag of four or five days, during which time the bodies would have been in the morgues.
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0133.shtml

USHMM has some of the lids in their collections. Here's one from Dachau. It seems relatively few of these survived, unfortunately (perhaps not accidentally).
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn517631

Imo, the urns do not fit well with the extermination story at all, especially the fact that they were used at Auschwitz.

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2025 2:43 pm
by HansHill
Archie wrote: Thu Nov 06, 2025 5:49 am indicate a lag of four or five days, during which time the bodies would have been in the morgues.
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... 0133.shtml
This is effectively saying the quiet part loud. I'm not seeing where exactly Pressac tells us this morgue was located, other than, you know, the ones they claimed were being used for homicidal gassing.

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 3:34 am
by Stubble
Cross post, seems relevant;

viewtopic.php?t=134
curioussoul wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 1:52 am This is largely a re-post from the RODOH forum, where we had an interesting discussion going.

One of the main features of the orthodox gassing story for Auschwitz is that the Birkenau morgues (Leichenkeller I) of Crematoria II and III were secretely converted into gas chambers around the end of 1942 and early 1943, shortly before Crematorium II was inaugurated in March of that year. Because of this, some scholars such as Robert van Pelt have pointed out that Birkenau had "no permanently dedicated morgue capacity".

Nevertheless, a series of documents from Birkenau prove that these morgues were indeed actively used as morgues all throughout 1943 and 1944. Carlo Mattogno published an article in 2004 entiteld "The Morgues of the Crematoria at Birkenau in the Light of Documents" (found here). In it, he quoted some pretty extraordinary documents, a few of which I'll quote below. In 1943, camp doctor Eduard Wirths made requests for the camp administration to expand the morgue capacity of the camp, but was shot down by Hoess, Mrugowski and Bischoff on the basis that the morgues in the crematoria were enough. On August 4, 1943, Bischoff (head of the Central Construction Office), replied with the following letter to Wirths:
SS Standartenführer Mrugowski has decreed during the discussion that the corpses are to be removed twice daily, in the morning and in the evening, into the morgues of the crematoria; in this way, the separate construction of morgues in the individual subsections can be avoided.
This is probably the single most damning document because it outright mentions the morgues of the crematoria, which - followin the official story - would have been unavailable as morgues due to them being supposedly converted into homicidal gas chambers for Jewish deportees. But the letter also mentions a decree whereby corpses are to be removed "twice daily", in the morning and in the evening, to the morgues, showing that the morgues were expected to be available around the clock for corpse storage.

When confronted with this particular document on the RODOH forum, Nessie appeared somewhat taken aback, denying that such a document could exist. After being convinced the document was indeed real, he pivoted to claiming it had to be a one-off exception. Traces of this corpse removal decree can be found in other documents relating to the morgues. As late as May 1944, the new ZBL head Werner Jothann responded once more to Wirths regarding the expansion of the morgues:
SS Obersturmbannführer Höß points out that in accordance with a presently valid order, the daily load of c.[orpses] is to be removed daily in the morning by means of a dedicated truck; if this order is carried out, an accumulation of c. cannot arise and therefore the construction of the above-mentioned halls is not imperative. SS Ostubaf. Höß therefore demands not to undertake the construction of the halls under discussion.
In other words, the order to remove corpses to the morgues twice daily was still in effect in May 1944. Wirths himself confirmed the order was still being followed in May 1944 in a different letter:
In the sick-bays of the camps at cc Auschwitz II a certain number of corpses accumulate daily on a regular basis. While their transportation to the crematoria has been organized and takes place twice a day, in the morning and in the evening, it does happen that on account of the scarcity of vehicles and/or fuel the corpses are not taken care of for 24 hours.
Anti-revisionist debaters at the RODOH forum attempted a number of arguments to explain these documents. One explanation was that the reference to merely "the crematoria" meant the corpses were immediataly taken to the ovens and burned, but this argument hardly holds up considering the most significant of these letter, the one by Bischoff, expressly mentions "the morgues of the crematoria". The phrasing "the crematoria" generally included facilities other than the ovens, such as the undressing room and the morgue itself. Another attempted explanation was that the morgue could have theoretically been used both as a morgue and a gas chamber, but there is no witness testimony from any of the Sonderkommando witnesses about the gas chamber ever being filled with regular non-gassed corpses. That would mean that the gas chamber would have to be regularly cleared of real corpses before every gassing, a major aspect of the duties of the Sonderkommando. A third explanation was that the SS didn't need morgues at all because corpses could just be burned instantly in the crematoria, which supposedly ran daily 24/7 at fantastical rates. But this doesn't really explain the fact that Wirths was asking for more morgues and the fact that autopsies were regularly carried out at the camp, which would have required morgues.

Given the significance of these documents for the gassing story, I think they deserve their own thread.
Good eye Mr Hill.

Seems Pressac often said the quiet part outloud, and often spilled the punch.

How the morgues being used as morgues and being behind isn't irreconcilable, I don't know, but, there you have it. Would you take a shower in a room full of corpses?

/shrug

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 6:15 am
by Archie
The urn Pressac shows from Auschwitz is from Auschwitz I and it's from Apr 1941. They will just say that they did this for registered prisoners only but not for the ~1M exterminations. Using urns for those who have been mass exterminated would of course be absurd. The registered/unregistered distinction will be their out on this.

They will also say that in Birkenau that they got the lag time down to zero days and therefore did not need morgues.

I think there probably were a bunch of these urns in Birkenau that would flatly disprove the Holocaust but they were probably all destroyed.

Re: If There Were No Mass Cremations, How Do You Explain All The Urns?

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2025 7:23 am
by Nessie
Hektor wrote: Sun Nov 02, 2025 10:08 am Urns are for single corpse cremation... A slight contradiction to the assertion that the crematories were part of an industrial scale extermination program.
The original designs were for standard crematorium with ovens to cremate one corpse at a time.