Hitler’s Religious Views

[Bane]

There was a thread about this on the old forum that went quite in depth into the matter. I remember sifting through it shortly before the old forum went down, and would like to see if we can have it back here. Anyhow, my memory is faint on the thread but the crux of it was whether or not Hitler was a Christian and wanted to have Germany be a Christian nation. Some members mentioned how the Protestant Reformations, for example, wrecked Germany and how that perhaps gave way for Hitlers perceived anti Christian sentiments.

[fireofice]

In my view, Hitler was not a Christian and in fact was rather anti-Christian. Before getting into specifics, I'd recommend these sources:

https://notourguy.substack.com/p/hitler ... uperthread

https://historyforatheists.com/2021/07/ ... christian/

https://t.me/NSHeathenry

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious ... olf_Hitler





On books to read, I recommend:

The Swastika against the Cross: The Nazi War on Christianity by Bruce Walker

Hitler's Religion: The Twisted Beliefs that Drove the Third Reich by Richard Weikart

This twitter thread produced a list of historians/scholars who have studied the Third Reich, both mainstream and revisionist, who conclude that the Reich was anti-Christian.



Of course, those in this forum know that "consensus" isn't always right, but I thought it was worth noting regardless. There are 3 exceptions to this that I am aware of and which the thread takes note of: Richard Steigmann-Gall (a Jewish historian), Mikael Nilsson, and Richard Carrier (who has written articles on his website). They argue that Hitler held to a fringe "Positive Christianity". The books are:

The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919–1945 by Richard Steigmann-Gall

Christianity in Hitler's Ideology by Mikael Nilsson

I do suggest reading these as these books do have some useful information. However, I don't think they are successful in ultimately proving their case, which I will get into.

Hitler's Table Talks

The most controversial source on this seems to be the Table Talks. The main book critically analyzing the Table Talks is:

Hitler Redux: The Incredible History of Hitler’s So-Called Table Talks by Mikael Nilsson

Here are some quotes from his book:

"The table talks are full of ...statements – and they are CORRABORATED by other independent sources.." - Page 64

"The evidence suggests, beyond any reasonable doubt, that [Heinrich] Heim’s proof pages are genuine." - Page 194

"They are both [Heinrich Heim's Monologe & Henry Picker's Tischgespräche] based on real utterances by Hitler." - Page 200

"[Henry] Picker had told Quick(German magazine) that [Gerhard] Engel and [Karl-Heinrich] Bodenschatz(Göring’s liaison officer by Hitler) , as partakers at the dinners in the FHQ, had testified to their authenticity. In addition, it had been concluded that “new finds in the United States and Switzerland” proved “that the documents are authentic.” The latter must have referred to [Heinrich] Heim’s proof pages, found by Mau in July, and to [François] Genoud’s manuscript, which had been brought to the IfZ’s attention since the publication of Tischgespräche. This conclusion was of course ... valid in so far as it related to the documents themselves." - Page 76

"However, and this is very important, the results presented in this book should absolutely not be interpreted as meaning that the table talks are not authentic. They really are, at least for the most part, memoranda of statements that Hitler made at some point or another in his wartime HQs." - Page 388

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/346

"In the table talks Hitler is also frequently depicted as criticizing every effort of the Church to meddle in politics, expressing the idea that organized religion (Christianity in particular) cannot be done away with until a viable alternative ideology is in place and the view that the Church could only lose a conflict with science. These views were developed and PRESENT already in Mein Kampf, and thus contain essentially nothing new at all. What the table talks do add to what we find in Mein Kampf, however, is the strong criticism of Christianity and Christian dogma. We see the same in other independent sources, too, such as WERNER KOEPPEN’S NOTES and Rosenberg’s and Goebbels’s diaries, SO WE CAN BE SURE THAT HE EXPRESSED SUCH VIEWS ..."

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/920

Here is a post on X which goes over several of the statements in the Table Talks that are corroborated by other sources:



Here is a video which goes over the Table Talks as well:



Basically, the main issue with the Table Talks are that the English version has some faulty translations. The German originals are much better and based on the things Hitler said. Of course, they aren't perfect sources. No source is. But I don't think they have been demonstrated to be on the whole unreliable. It should also be noted that anti-Christian statements are found in sources other than Table Talks, so throwing them out wouldn't help you much in trying to make Hitler not anti-Christian.

Positive Christianity

So did Hitler believe in some form of Christianity as Steigmann-Gall thinks? First, it should be noted that Steigmann-Gall's claims have not gone uncriticized. Here is a sampling:



From Weikart's book:

For critiques of Steigmann-Gall’s position, see Richard Weikart, review of Richard Steigmann-Gall, The Holy Reich, in German Studies Review 27 (2004): 174–76; the special edition of Journal of Contemporary History (vol. 42, no. 1, 2007) devoted to critiques of Steigmann-Gall; and Mark Edward Ruff, “The Nazis’ Religionspolitik: An Assessment of Recent Literature,” The Catholic Historical Review, 92 (2006), 252–66.

So you can follow those threads if you want to go more in depth. But focusing just on Hitler, here's why I don't think he believed in an actual "Positive Christianity" and that it was basically just a way to undermine Christianity and not a genuine belief.

According to Goebbels diary Hitler said:

The best way to finish off the churches is to PRETEND to be a more positive Christian.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/534

From the Table Talks:

Minister Kerrl wanted to create a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity in the NOBLEST sense. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS IS POSSIBLE

This is corroborated in Rosenberg's diary:

The Führer said that Kerrl's motives were certainly only NOBLE, but that it was a hopeless attempt to unite National Socialism and Christianity.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1020

To me, these pretty much prove that Hitler didn't believe in any form of Christianity, not even a dressed up NS version of it.

If one wants to say he was "some kind" of Christian, I would just ask how so? He denied the resurrection as well as denied the Christian doctrine of salvation:

The idiocy of the Christian doctrine of salvation is for our time completely unusable. Nonetheless there are scholars, educated people, and men in high positions in public life, who hang on to it as on to a childhood faith. That even today one views the Christian doctrine of salvation as giving direction through a difficult life is completely incomprehensible.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1037

Even the most fringe forms of Christianity like Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses believe in salvation. I can only conclude from statements like this that Hitler wasn't any form of Christian.

Hitler's Views on Christianity

Here are some what people close to Hitler had to say on his views on Christianity:

Goebbels diary:

The Führer is deeply religious but utterly anti-Christian. He sees in Christianity a symptom of deterioration. With justification. It is an offshoot of the Jewish race. One sees that also in the similarity of religious rites. Both have absolutely no relationship to animals and will ultimately die out because of that

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/235

Hewel's diary:

Fuhrer at the table: Christianity is a rebellion against creation. It is the reversal of all the laws of nature, which even in the smallest process of fertilization are based on struggle and selection of the best
...
The teaching [of Christianity is] against the omnipotence of Nature. The glorification of the weak, the sick, the crippled, the simple-minded

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1019
https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1152

Otto Dietrich:

Hitler was convinced that Christianity was outmoded and dying. He thought he could speed its death by systematic education of German youth. Christianity would be replaced, he thought, by a new heroic, racial ideal of God.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1089

Mein Kampf:

Christianity was not content with erecting an altar of its own, but rather first had to destroy the pagan altars. It was only from this passionate intolerance that an apodictic faith could take form; intolerance is an indispensable precondition.
It may be objected here that such phenomena in world history arise from mostly a specifically 𝗝𝗘𝗪𝗜𝗦𝗛 𝗠𝗢𝗗𝗘 𝗢𝗙 𝗧𝗛𝗢𝗨𝗚𝗛𝗧; 𝐈𝐍𝐃𝐄𝐄𝐃, that such fanaticism and intolerance embody the 𝗦𝗣𝗘𝗖𝗜𝗙𝗜𝗖𝗔𝗟𝗟𝗬 𝗝𝗘𝗪𝗜𝗦𝗛 𝗠𝗘𝗡𝗧𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗧𝗬. This may be a thousand-times true, and it’s a deeply regrettable 𝗙𝗔𝗖𝗧. The appearance of fanatical intolerance in human history may be both deeply regrettable and 𝗙𝗢𝗥𝗘𝗜𝗚𝗡 to human nature-but this doesn’t change the fact it exists today. The men who want to liberate our German nation from its present condition shouldn’t worry their heads with thinking how wonderful it would be if this or that had never arisen; rather, they must find ways to eliminate it. A worldview that’s inspired by infernal intolerance can only be broken by the same spirit, by a doctrine driven by the same determined will, and which is itself a pure and absolutely true new idea.
One may today regret the 𝗙𝗔𝗖𝗧 that the ADVENT OF CHRISTIANITY marked the appearance of the 𝗙𝗜𝗥𝗦𝗧 𝗦𝗣𝗜𝗥𝗜𝗧𝗨𝗔𝗟 𝗧𝗘𝗥𝗥𝗢𝗥 into the much freer ancient world. But the 𝗙𝗔𝗖𝗧 cannot be denied that, ever since then [i.e. ADVENT OF CHRISTIANITY], the world has been pervaded and dominated by this kind of 𝗖𝗢𝗘𝗥𝗖𝗜𝗢𝗡, and that violence has been broken only by violence, and terror only by terror. Only then can a new condition be constructively created.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/392

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

Would Hitler Lie About His Religious Views?

Of course, you can find positive statements Hitler made about Christianity as well. I think this is best explained as just him lying to the public about his beliefs so he could get elected, and the few times after he got elected (where such positive statements about Christianity are still made but less common) to get the people on his side. Evidence he was willing to lie about his beliefs:

According to Hewel, Hitler said:

As a private citizen I would never break my word. As a POLITICIAN for Germany, if necessary, A THOUSAND TIMES

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/520

In a letter to his wife, Rudolf Hess says Hitler told him that he played the role of religious hypocrite in not revealing his true feelings about religion.
https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1077

Hitler's Religious Views

As for his actual views, he definitely believed in a God of some kind. Was he a pagan? It depends on how you define the term. If you define it as in belief in the old European gods, probably not. He speaks against trying to resurrect a religion around Wotan in the Table Talks, for example. However there is a definition of pagan that just means a non-Jewish religion.

Paganism (from Latin paganus 'rural, rustic', later 'civilian') is a term first used in the fourth century by early Christians for people in the Roman Empire who practiced polytheism, or ethnic religions other than Christianity, Judaism, and Samaritanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

Under that definition, I think it would be accurate to call him a pagan. But of course you have to be clear about what you mean by that term. He does explicitly say he is a heathen/pagan in three separate sources:

Rosenberg:

With a laugh Hitler emphasized more than once that he had always been a HEATHEN

Severus Ziegler:

You must know, I AM A HEATHEN. I understand that to mean: a non-Christian. Of course I have an inward relationship to a cosmic Almighty, to a Godhead.

Kurt Lüdecke:

I myself am a HEATHEN to the core!

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/690

I think there is also a good case to be made that he was a pantheist. This could be compatible with being a pagan depending how you define it since some pagans have engaged in nature worship. Weikart makes a fuller case for that in his book. Some people consider pantheism to be a form of atheism, and therefore if you consider Hitler to be a pantheist, you could then consider him to be an atheist under a certain line of reasoning. However, since Hitler disparaged atheism several times in public and private, I don't think he would like someone calling him that to his face.

[Wahrheitssucher]

There was a thread about this on the old forum that went quite in depth into the matter. I remember sifting through it shortly before the old forum went down, and would like to see if we can have it back here. Anyhow, my memory is faint on the thread but the crux of it was whether or not Hitler was a Christian and wanted to have Germany be a Christian nation. Some members mentioned how the Protestant Reformations, for example, wrecked Germany and how that perhaps gave way for Hitlers perceived anti Christian sentiments.

Wehrmacht belt buckle

Gott mit uns = God with us

Adolf criticised aspects of the Christian Church, the priesthood and the gullibility of the Christian masses but not the teachings of ‘Christ’ nor the basic premise of religion.

“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 2

“Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

“I had so often sung "Deutschland über Alles" and shouted "Heil" at the top of my lungs, that it seemed to me almost a belated act of grace to be allowed to stand as a witness in the divine court of the eternal judge and proclaim the sincerity of this conviction.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5

“Once again the songs of the Fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children.”
- Adolf Hitler reflecting on World War I, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 7

“What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

“But if out of smugness, or even cowardice, this battle is not fought to its end, then take a look at the peoples 500 years from now. I think you will find but few images of God, unless you want to profane the Almighty.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10

“Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord [humanity] commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

“Thus inwardly armed with confidence in God and the unshakable stupidity of the voting citizenry, the politicians can begin the fight for the "remaking" of the Reich as they call it.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1

“It may be that today gold has become the exclusive ruler of life, but the time will come when man will again bow down before a higher god.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2

“The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2, Chapter 10

“To do justice to God and our own conscience, we have turned once more to the German volk.”
- Adolf Hitler in speech about the need for a moral regeneration of German, February 10, 1933

“I go the way that Providence dictates with the assurance of a sleepwalker.”
- Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 15, 1936, Munich, Germany

“May divine providence bless us with enough courage and enough determination to perceive within ourselves this holy German space.”
- Adolf Hitler, Speech, March 24, 1933

“We don't ask the Almighty, "Lord, make us free!" We want to be active, to work, to work together, so that when the hour comes that we appear before the Lord we can say to him: "Lord, you see that we have changed." The German people are no longer a people of dishonor and shame, of self-destructiveness and cowardice. No, Lord, the German people are once more strong in spirit, strong in determination, strong in the willingness to bear every sacrifice. Lord, now bless our battle and our freedom, and therefore our German people and Fatherland.”
- Adolf Hitler, Prayer, May 1, 1933

“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work.”
- Adolf Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936

“The Catholic Church should not deceive herself: if National Socialism does not succeed in defeating Bolshevism, then the church and Christianity in Europe too are finished. Bolshevism is the mortal enemy of the church as much as of fascism. ...Man cannot exist without belief in God. The soldier who for three and four days lies under intense bombardment needs a religious prop.”
- Adolf Hitler in conversation with Cardinal Michael von Faulhaber of Bavaria, November 4, 1936

https://www.learnreligions.com/adolf-hi ... tes-248193

[Wahrheitssucher]

Adolf’s views on Christianity

“We demand freedom for all religious confessions in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or conflict with the customs and moral sentiments of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the standpoint of a positive Christianity, without owing itself to a particular confession...”
- Article 20 of the program of the German Workers' Party (later named the National Socialist German Workers' Party, NSDAP)

“My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognised these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth, was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. ...Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognise more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”
- Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

“ And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God; because then, as always, they used religion as a means of advancing their commercial interests. But at that time Christ was nailed to the Cross for his attitude towards the Jews; whereas our modern Christians enter into party politics and when elections are being held they debase themselves to beg for Jewish votes. They even enter into political intrigues with the atheistic Jewish parties against the interests of their own Christian nation.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11

“I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendour of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 1

“As long as leadership from above was not lacking, the people fulfilled their duty and obligation overwhelmingly. Whether Protestant pastor or Catholic priest, both together and particularly at the first flare, there really existed in both camps but a single holy German Reich, for whose existence and future each man turned to his own heaven.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 3

“The more abstractly correct and hence powerful this idea will be, the more impossible remains its complete fulfillment as long as it continues to depend on human beings... If this were not so, the founders of religion could not be counted among the greatest men of this earth... In its workings, even the religion of love is only the weak reflection of the will of its exalted founder; its significance, however, lies in the direction which it attempted to give to a universal human development of culture, ethics, and morality.”
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8

“ Today Christians ... stand at the head of [this country]... I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit ... We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press - in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past ... (few) years.”
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872

[Wahrheitssucher]

There is a great deal of content on Instagram that would have been censored and removed immediately just six months ago.
I’m suspicious of why Mark Zuckerberg’s meta is suddenly allowing it.
But, whatever… here is a translated speech of Hitler in an Ai simulation of how he would have sounded speaking it in English.
In this short extract he mentions God.

[fireofice]

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

This is a fake quote. The quote from Gerhard Engel's English memoir (not a letter as is often claimed) is:

Now as before HE was a Catholic and would remain so.

However, even this is a mistranslation of the original German. A better translation is:

He was still a member of the Catholic Church and would remain so. The Church was far too clever to excommunicate him.

In context, this is referring to Hitler being a member of the Catholic Church and remaining a nominal Catholic for pragmatic reasons, not being a believing Catholic. Within the same memoir this is quoted from, Gerhard Engel says:

Führer spoke at length again about religious belief and his attitude to the churches. Undoubtedly under sniper fire from B(ormann) and H(immler) a less conciliatory attitude is developing. Whereas in the past he wanted to live and let live, he [Hitler] is now determined to fight the churches. Führer literally: ‘The war, here as in many other areas, presents a favourable opportunity to DISPOSE of it (the church question) ROOT AND BRANCH.'

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/865

[Wahrheitssucher]

"I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so."
- Adolf Hitler, to General Gerhard Engel, 1941

This is a fake quote. The quote from Gerhard Engel's English memoir (not a letter as is often claimed) is:

Now as before HE was a Catholic and would remain so.

However, even this is a mistranslation of the original German. A better translation is:

He was still a member of the Catholic Church and would remain so. The Church was far too clever to excommunicate him.

In context, this is referring to Hitler being a member of the Catholic Church and remaining a nominal Catholic for pragmatic reasons, not being a believing Catholic. Within the same memoir this is quoted from, Gerhard Engel says:

Führer spoke at length again about religious belief and his attitude to the churches. Undoubtedly under sniper fire from B(ormann) and H(immler) a less conciliatory attitude is developing. Whereas in the past he wanted to live and let live, he [Hitler] is now determined to fight the churches. Führer literally: ‘The war, here as in many other areas, presents a favourable opportunity to DISPOSE of it (the church question) ROOT AND BRANCH.'

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/865

Ok. Thanks for the correction.

[Hektor]

In my view, Hitler was not a Christian and in fact was rather anti-Christian. Before getting into specifics, I'd recommend these sources:
...

Nope, he was. Unless you exclude Catholics from being Christians as some evangelicals do. And while not very pushy with his religious views he was rather benevolent to the churches.

For reference e.g.:

Goering: Certainly. ...
As to the attitude towards the Church -- the Fuehrer's attitude was a generous one, at the beginning absolutely generous. I should not like to say that it was positive in the sense that he himself was a positive or convinced adherent of any one confession, but it was

generous and positive in the sense that he recognized the necessity of the Church. Although he himself was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, since Germany was two-thirds Protestant.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-14-46.asp#Goering2

The relationship became less cordial over time though. But that wasn't because Hitler changed his mind on Christianity. It was because the churches or their representatives became more hostile or demanding. There were also people in and outside the NSDAP in Germany that were rather hostile against the churches and also Christianity in general. Mathilde Ludendorff plus followers for example was rather hostile, but they were not in the NSDAP and even slightly hostile to NS since they didn't get from them what they wanted. Inside the party Martin Bormann and perhaps Heinrich Himmler took a distanced to critical stance towards the churches and/or Christianity. Hence testimony out of that corner should be taken with a grain of salt.

Same applies to many 'evangelical' sources, which is Christianity in McDonalds clothing... They have swallowed the post war consensus, worship Jews/"Israel" and try to distance themselves from National Socialism, since they are 'right-wing'. So it stands to expected that they'd paint NS and Hitler in a bad light for their following and outside observers. They aren't really that knowledgeable about NS-Germany, don't understand German or German nuances also don't understand the mentality there but pick up some snippets and then construct an 'Anti-Christian National Socialism'.... Of course they can find some quotes in that direction given that the NSDAP had millions of members and a pretty diverse leadership group. And there it was mostly Bormann that made moves against the churches and Christianity. Interestingly then when Hitler's focus had been elsewhere mostly. Add hearsay and anecdotes and you get something akin to the Holocaust Narrative, which is a misrepresentation as well....

[fireofice]

In my view, Hitler was not a Christian and in fact was rather anti-Christian. Before getting into specifics, I'd recommend these sources:
...

Nope, he was. Unless you exclude Catholics from being Christians as some evangelicals do. And while not very pushy with his religious views he was rather benevolent to the churches.

For reference e.g.: Goering: Certainly. ...
As to the attitude towards the Church -- the Fuehrer's attitude was a generous one, at the beginning absolutely generous. I should not like to say that it was positive in the sense that he himself was a positive or convinced adherent of any one confession, but it was

generous and positive in the sense that he recognized the necessity of the Church. Although he himself was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, since Germany was two-thirds Protestant.
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/03-14-46.asp#Goering2

Nothing you posted comes close to challenging the evidence I presented. He was not Catholic nor a Christian in any way. You quote Goering's testimony at Nuremberg, but he was on trial for his life there. One of the charges against them was persecution of the churches. He wanted to portray himself as being under a leader who was a good Christian man who would never do such things, either persecuting churches or committing genocide. So anything he says in that regard should be taken with a grain of salt. Also saying "he was Catholic" could also just mean that he was a nominal Catholic as in being a member of the Catholic Church, but not a believing one.

More evidence that he was specifically anti-Catholic from Goebbels diary:

Long debates about the Vatican and Christianity. The Führer is the fiercest opponent of the whole spell, but he still forbids me to leave the church. For tactical reasons. And for such nonsense I have been paying my church taxes for over a decade now. That is what hurts me the most.

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1155

He's also literally on audio being anti-Catholic:



So yeah, he wasn't Catholic in any sense except a nominal one.

[Hektor]

...
Nothing you posted comes close to challenging the evidence I presented. He was not Catholic nor a Christian in any way. You quote Goering's testimony at Nuremberg, but he was on trial for his life there. One of the charges against them was persecution of the churches. He wanted to portray himself as being under a leader who was a good Christian man who would never do such things, either persecuting church....
He's also literally on audio being anti-Catholic:


So yeah, he wasn't Catholic in any sense except a nominal one.

Anecdotal Hearsay as from a rather obscure figure like Martin Bormann isn't evidence. The statements of Hermann Goering easily trump anything you presented.
The evidence is clear that Adolf Hitler was a Catholic Christian and this becomes even clear in some speeches. Hitler never even considered resigning from the church. He was however more tolerant to non-Catholics than the average Catholic at the time.

As for Dr. Goebbels he repays the hostility of the Catholic church against him, since he married a divorced Protestant woman. He remained a Catholic on Hitler's insistence.

Both Churches had clergy and functionaries that gave people in politics grieve and that's the reason why the relationship went more sour. But figures like Bormann or Himmler didn't represent the vast majority of NSDAP members. As indicated, they are more like the Ludendorff-circle in that regard.

Also. Especially from 1936 onward the NS-leadership became more aware of corruption in the churches as well including sexual abuse. The Catholic Church still hasn't forgiven the loyal Catholic Adolf Hitler that police and courts prosecuted pedophile priests under his rule. The friction that occurred is exactly how Goering describes it in his testimony at the IMT. Nobody was persecuted or thrown out of the NSDAP, because he was a Christian, just because people that were nominal Christians were arrested and punished. They were so for other reasons, even if they used religious arguments to defend themselves....

...
"Audio clip of Adolf Hitler explaining how the Catholic church destroyed the ancient Roman concept of state. "

Sorry, I do understand German well even on university level, He does not say that the "Catholic Church" did destroy the 'Roman concept of state'... So that account literally pushes eisegesis to further an agenda there. Whose agenda one may ask. The other faction that pushes the Hitler=Anti-Christ idea are the 'soc-called' Christian Zionists that are strongly under Jewish influence as well.

And well. I'd agree that institutional conflicts within the Roman empire were a serious problem. They were however a problem prior to the emergence of the Catholic Church or even Christianity. In fact it was Christianity (broad-sense) that salvaged the remnants of the roman empire.... Naturally that is a subject on itself. The new pseudopagans have the distorted historiography common among post-modernists, humanists, leftists nowadays. Ironically that coincides with what people like the Ludendorff circle were promoting. And it is rather progressive just not with the usual Marxist/pan-humanists bells and whistles. As said subject on its own. If there is interest it should be discussed separately.

[fireofice]

Anecdotal Hearsay as from a rather obscure figure like Martin Bormann isn't evidence. The statements of Hermann Goering easily trump anything you presented.

Martin Bormann is not an "obscure figure". He was one of Hitler's most loyal people from his inner circle. Bormann personally knew Hitler so what he says about him is not "hearsay", he heard it from the mouth of Hitler himself. And no, Goering's statements at Nuremberg should be treated as less valid due to the reasons I already presented. Martin Bormann and others of his inner circle trump anything Goering said while on trial for his life.

As for Dr. Goebbels he repays the hostility of the Catholic church against him, since he married a divorced Protestant woman. He remained a Catholic on Hitler's insistence.

You didn't address where he said Hitler was against the Catholic Church and that he ordered Goebbels to remain despite his personal opposition for pragmatic reasons.

Sorry, I do understand German well even on university level, He does not say that the "Catholic Church" did destroy the 'Roman concept of state'... So that account literally pushes eisegesis to further an agenda there.

He clearly says that the Roman Church undermined the Roman concept of the state. That's anti-Catholic even if he doesn't use the words "Catholic Church".

[Callafangers]

From Hitler's address to the Reichstag, January 30, 1939:

Among the reproaches which the so-called democracies have heaped on Germany has
been the claim that National Socialist Germany is a state hostile to religion. On this topic, I
wish to make the following solemn declaration before the entire German Volk:

1 . To date, no one has been persecuted because of his religious affinity in Germany, nor
will anyone be persecuted for this reason in the future either.

2. Since January 30, 1933, the official institutions within the National Socialist State
have transferred the following tax earnings to the two Churches: 130 million Reichsmarks for
the fiscal year 1933; 170 million Reichsmarks for the fiscal year 1934; 250 million
Reichsmarks for the fiscal year 1935; 320 million Reichsmarks for the fiscal year 1936; 400
million Reichsmarks for the fiscal year 1937; 500 million Reichsmarks for the fiscal year
1938. In addition to this, the Church receives approximately 85 million Reichs-marks
annually in the form of Lander subsidies, and approximately another seven million
Reichsmarks in the form of subsidies by the local communities and associations. Next to the
State, the Church constitutes the greatest proprietor of land. It possesses holdings in real estate
and forestry in excess of ten billion Reichsmarks. From these, it derives annual earnings of
about 300 million.

Moreover, the Church benefits from countless gifts, bequests, and, above all, from
donations collected. Further, the National Socialist State accords the Church concessions in a
variety of realms: donations and inheritance are taxexempt for instance. To make an
understatement, therefore, it is with insolent impertinence that foreign politicians accuse the
Third Reich of hostility to religion. Should the churches within Germany regard the situation
as unbearable, then please bear in mind that the National Socialist State is willing, and
prepared at any time, to undertake a clear separation of church and state, as is the case in
France, America, and other countries. In this context, I permit myself to pose the following
question: Within this period, how much did official state appropriations to the church amount
to in France, England, and the USA?

3. The National Socialist State has not closed even one single church, neither prevented
church services nor infringed on the conduct of Mass. It has not imposed its views on any
confession's church doctrine and faith. In the National Socialist State, man is free to seek
absolution in the fashion desired.

However, the National Socialist State will relentlessly deal with those priests who,
instead of serving the Lord, see their mission in propagating derisive comments on our present
Reich, its institutions, or its leading men. It will bring to their attention the fact that the
destruction of this State will not be tolerated.

The law will prosecute a priest who implicates himself in illegal activities and he will be
held accountable for these in the same manner as any other, ordinary German citizen. It must,
however, be stated at this point that there are thousands upon thousands of priests of all
Christian beliefs who attend to their clerical duties in a manner infinitely superior to these
clerical warmongers and without entering into conflict with the established law and order. To
protect these is the mission of the State. To destroy the enemies of the State is the duty of the
State.

[Callafangers]

Also, there is no question that Hitler's faith was challenged and eroded by the latter years of the war. Steigmann-Gall documents this chronology fairly well and speaks to it in his latter chapters. Compare Hitler's more seemingly anti-Christian rhetoric post-1942 (after the war and its consequences), to his statements from much earlier (April 12, 1922):

And finally we were also the first to point the people on any large scale to a danger
which insinuated itself into our midst - a danger which millions failed to realize and which
will nonetheless lead us all into ruin - the Jewish danger. And today people are saying yet
again that we were 'agitators.' I would like here to appeal to a greater than I, Count
Lerchenfeld. He said in the last session of the Landtag that his feeling 'as a man and a
Christian' prevented him from being an anti-Semite. I SAY: MY FEELING AS A
CHRISTIAN POINTS ME TO MY LORD AND SAVIOUR AS A FIGHTER. IT POINTS
ME TO THE MAN WHO ONCE IN LONELINESS, SURROUNDED ONLY BY A FEW
FOLLOWERS, RECOGNIZED THESE JEWS FOR WHAT THEY WERE AND
SUMMONED MEN TO THE FIGHT AGAINST THEM AND WHO, GOD'S TRUTH!
WAS GREATEST NOT AS SUFFERER BUT AS FIGHTER. In boundless love as a
Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in
His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and of adders.
How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand
years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before - the fact that it was
for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow
myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice. And as a man I
have the duty to see to it that human society does not suffer the same catastrophic collapse as
did the civilization of the ancient world some two thousand years ago - a civilization which
was driven to its ruin through this same Jewish people.

Then indeed when Rome collapsed there were endless streams of new German bands
flowing into the Empire from the North; but, if Germany collapses today, who is there to
come after us? German blood upon this earth is on the way to gradual exhaustion unless we
pull ourselves together and make ourselves free!

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the
distress which daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when
I look on my people I see it work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week it
has only for its wage wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these
men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no
Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand
years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people is plundered and exploited.

Also, use Ctrl+F in this compilation of Hitler's speeches, below, for the terms "God", "Christian", "Lord", etc. (there are hundreds of each, across many years):

https://archive.org/stream/AdolfHitlerC ... 5_djvu.txt

Hitler struggled with his faith, as many do, but this especially took hold once the subversive faux-Christian networks deluded by Jewish propaganda caused the war to progress and millions of German lives lost. Hitler loved his people, and it is easy to see why their destruction would have him question his purpose -- which meant also questioning his God.

[fireofice]

The problem with using speeches is that Hitler was willing to lie to gain votes and get the public on his side as I documented above. There is also the anti-Christian statements in Mein Kampf as well as indication that Hitler was a skeptic of Christianity going back to his childhood as documented in the Table Talks and by Kubizec. One of the articles I posted documents all of this.

By all accounts, Hitler’s father Alois was a domineering bully and Hitler was far closer to his rather more indulgent mother Klara. In many respects Hitler rebelled against what he considered to be his father’s petty bourgeois civil servant’s ambitions, but on matters of religion he seems to have been closer to his father’s scepticism than his mother’s faith. In adult life Hitler presented himself as something of a questioning doubter in religion classes as a youth and this is supported to a large extent by the recollections of his childhood friend August Kubizek, who said that by Hitler’s teens “his father’s freethinking attitude won the upper hand”. (Kubizek, Adolf Hitler: Mein Jugendfreund,1953, p. 114).

This early influence and some of Hitler’s later reading would explain why elements of his world view and some of his arguments, while not actually atheistic, may have seemed so to others. Hitler often used arguments used by anti-theists to this day, condemning Christianity, for example, for the excesses of the Inquisition and the witch hunts. Kubizek recalls the teenaged Hitler making these arguments and in a 1927 correspondence with a Catholic priest who had formerly been a Nazi supporter, Hitler vehemently disputed the claim Christianity had ended “Roman barbarism”, citing the burning of heretics, the destruction of the Aztecs and Incas and the African slave trade as examples of Christian barbarity. Hitler held ancient Greek and Roman civilisation in high regard and considered it to be “Aryan” and so worthy of admiration. So he decried the Christian destruction of ancient temples and railed against what he understood as the destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria as a “Jewish-Christian deed”. Given that these examples are mainstays of atheist polemic to this day, it is perhaps not too surprising some of his contemporaries mistook him for an atheist himself.

https://historyforatheists.com/2021/07/ ... christian/

In a table talk, Hitler recalls that he constantly frustrated his religious teacher by challenging the Christian religion as a kid and said to them:

No, Mr Professor, I do not pray; I do not believe that the dear God has an interest if a pupil prays!

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1128

So yes, a case has been made by a historian for that, but for these reasons that's why I personally don't find it very convincing.

[Callafangers]

The problem with using speeches is that Hitler was willing to lie to gain votes and get the public on his side as I documented above. There is also the anti-Christian statements in Mein Kampf as well as indication that Hitler was a skeptic of Christianity going back to his childhood as documented in the Table Talks and by Kubizec. One of the articles I posted documents all of this.

By all accounts, Hitler’s father Alois was a domineering bully and Hitler was far closer to his rather more indulgent mother Klara. In many respects Hitler rebelled against what he considered to be his father’s petty bourgeois civil servant’s ambitions, but on matters of religion he seems to have been closer to his father’s scepticism than his mother’s faith. In adult life Hitler presented himself as something of a questioning doubter in religion classes as a youth and this is supported to a large extent by the recollections of his childhood friend August Kubizek, who said that by Hitler’s teens “his father’s freethinking attitude won the upper hand”. (Kubizek, Adolf Hitler: Mein Jugendfreund,1953, p. 114).

This early influence and some of Hitler’s later reading would explain why elements of his world view and some of his arguments, while not actually atheistic, may have seemed so to others. Hitler often used arguments used by anti-theists to this day, condemning Christianity, for example, for the excesses of the Inquisition and the witch hunts. Kubizek recalls the teenaged Hitler making these arguments and in a 1927 correspondence with a Catholic priest who had formerly been a Nazi supporter, Hitler vehemently disputed the claim Christianity had ended “Roman barbarism”, citing the burning of heretics, the destruction of the Aztecs and Incas and the African slave trade as examples of Christian barbarity. Hitler held ancient Greek and Roman civilisation in high regard and considered it to be “Aryan” and so worthy of admiration. So he decried the Christian destruction of ancient temples and railed against what he understood as the destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria as a “Jewish-Christian deed”. Given that these examples are mainstays of atheist polemic to this day, it is perhaps not too surprising some of his contemporaries mistook him for an atheist himself.

https://historyforatheists.com/2021/07/ ... christian/

I don't think any of the above suggests he was disingenuous in his speeches nor even challenges that he held some Christian faith by the time he became Chancellor and beyond, even if raising questions about his own unique or modified interpretation thereof. We can assume he was only saying it for votes, or we can assume he was telling the truth. Given his record of honesty, I'm inclined to accept the latter.

Questioning the world critically is a sign of intelligence. Many people, including myself, have cast doubt and disdain upon Christianity, its beliefs, and its history (I spent a decade as a very militant atheist, debating and ridiculing every Christian I would come across). None of this suggests that 5, 10, or 20 years later, that person will hold the same beliefs. Hitler's own words are the best indication of what he believed at the time of his speeches.

In a table talk, Hitler recalls that he constantly frustrated his religious teacher by challenging the Christian religion as a kid and said to them:

No, Mr Professor, I do not pray; I do not believe that the dear God has an interest if a pupil prays!

https://t.me/NSHeathenry/1128

So yes, a case has been made by a historian for that, but for these reasons that's why I personally don't find it very convincing.

Again here, even if we assume this 'Table Talk' occurred as described, Hitler challenging Christianity as a child does not suggest he has no respect or admiration for it as an adult. Minds can change a great deal from one year to the next (and more so one decade to the next).

On a separate note, the Table Talks are not a credible source of evidence for specific claims. They should only be considered cautiously as a supplementary source for a given topic or question that is first confirmed elsewhere.

From the most critical/comprehensive study on the 'Talks', to date:

The idea that the table talks contain Hitler’s words as they were actually spoken to his entourage in the various military HQs during the war must, as a result, be considered to have been conclusively disproven. The table talks are not that kind of sources, since they, contrary to what has been assumed by prior research, were not the product of stenographic notes. Instead, they were (as in the case of the nightly monologues) re-constructed entirely from memory, and sometimes partly from so-called supporting words. Heim’s proof pages show that they were not only edited later on – text was added, taken out, or moved around – and sometimes finished long after the date on them. Nor was Hitler more honest in these statements; the evidence is that lies from Mein Kampf are repeated in the table talks even though many of those present must have known that what he said was not true.

Nilson, M. (2021). Hitler Redux: The Incredible History of Hitler’s So-Called Table Talks. p. 384
https://ia801207.us.archive.org/13/item ... org%29.pdf