Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[HansHill]

they

Why did you call me "they" when I'm clearly a man

[Nessie]

they

Why did you call me "they" when I'm clearly a man

Because I was referring to you as part of a group. That group is so-called revisionists, who cannot revise, because they bring no evidence to the debate. In this case, no archaeological evidence to prove the ground in the southern end of TII is largely undisturbed.

[TlsMS93]

If archaeologists found large areas of buried cremated remains, items from SS guards and people from various countries, that suggested many were Jewish, some demolished buried buildings, in what was a camp, that had then planted over, with no other information, they would conclude it was most likely the scene of a crime that was being covered-up. That the camps had had railway lines into them, would also suggest people had been transported there and died. The finds of some corpses of guards, who had been shot, would suggest fighting at the camp.

There is enough evidence, from archaeology alone, to suggest foul play and many dead.

So the concentration camps of the American Civil War were also extermination camps, but no one claims that. In the case of Treblinka, what we have is a clandestine narrative that subsequently created this image in certain camps. What idiocy: the first gas chambers at Treblinka II were unfit for service, because those at Belzec and Sobibor were supposedly more than enough to purge the General Government in a matter of months.

[Nessie]

If archaeologists found large areas of buried cremated remains, items from SS guards and people from various countries, that suggested many were Jewish, some demolished buried buildings, in what was a camp, that had then planted over, with no other information, they would conclude it was most likely the scene of a crime that was being covered-up. That the camps had had railway lines into them, would also suggest people had been transported there and died. The finds of some corpses of guards, who had been shot, would suggest fighting at the camp.

There is enough evidence, from archaeology alone, to suggest foul play and many dead.

So the concentration camps of the American Civil War were also extermination camps, but no one claims that. In the case of Treblinka, what we have is a clandestine narrative that subsequently created this image in certain camps. What idiocy: the first gas chambers at Treblinka II were unfit for service, because those at Belzec and Sobibor were supposedly more than enough to purge the General Government in a matter of months.

Name a site, from any war, anywhere in the world, that is like the AR camps, with buried cremated remains, some corpses of soldiers that show they were shot dead, demolished buried buildings, a railway line into it, and it has been planted over.

You cannot, they are unique. The archaeological evidence alone, is enough to prove it was a site where people died in the most suspicious circumstances.

[TlsMS93]

What's unique is wanting to cremate 800,000 bodies without fuel. Having trains near the German-Soviet demarcation line with their different track gauges is no big deal; it only strengthens Germany's foreign policy of deporting Jews to occupied Soviet territories. If there are no records of Jews in the USSR beyond what they already had in 1939, blame the Soviets and their closed system and misinformation. I want you to give me the 1.7 million Jews buried or the alleged amount of ashes for these Reinhardt camps. You won't give us that because there isn't even close to a fraction of the alleged amount.

All these extras: the railway, the sorting and delousing facilities, the remains of cremations of people who died en route or from disease, the risk of groundwater contamination—none of this constitutes genocide.

If I were given a directive from Hitler ordering such extermination, we wouldn't even discuss any of it, nor would I need to show camps or investigate anything. But there's no sign of it, not even in ministerial bodies that would have this carbon copy somewhere.

[Nessie]

What's unique is wanting to cremate 800,000 bodies without fuel.

You invented that lie. The witnesses to the pyres describe the use of petrol and wood. The set-up of the pyres also meant that air was drawn in and oxygen burns. You only fool yourself with your dishonesty.

Having trains near the German-Soviet demarcation line with their different track gauges is no big deal; it only strengthens Germany's foreign policy of deporting Jews to occupied Soviet territories.

You have zero evidence of mass transports to the east, from the AR camps, where people changed trains.

If there are no records of Jews in the USSR beyond what they already had in 1939, blame the Soviets and their closed system and misinformation.

Why did the Nazis not keep any records? Why would they cover-up mass resettlement?

I want you to give me the 1.7 million Jews buried or the alleged amount of ashes for these Reinhardt camps. You won't give us that because there isn't even close to a fraction of the alleged amount.

I give you archaeological and geophysical evidence of large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated human remains. You lie to yourself and pretend that only accounts for a small number of dead.

All these extras: the railway, the sorting and delousing facilities, the remains of cremations of people who died en route or from disease, the risk of groundwater contamination—none of this constitutes genocide.

You cannot evidence what took place inside the AR camps.

If I were given a directive from Hitler ordering such extermination, we wouldn't even discuss any of it, nor would I need to show camps or investigate anything. But there's no sign of it, not even in ministerial bodies that would have this carbon copy somewhere.

It does not matter what you think. Evidence proves what happened. You dishonestly suggest I lack evidence, whilst you ignore you have no evidence.

[Wahrheitssucher]

What's unique is wanting to cremate 800,000 bodies without fuel.

…If there are no records of Jews in the USSR beyond what they already had in 1939, blame the Soviets and their closed system and misinformation.

Exactly!
.

[TlsMS93]

The Korherr Report records what happened to these deportees, but you distort it by believing in euphemism, I can do nothing.

[Nessie]

What's unique is wanting to cremate 800,000 bodies without fuel.

…If there are no records of Jews in the USSR beyond what they already had in 1939, blame the Soviets and their closed system and misinformation.

Exactly!
.

The first claim about cremations without fuel is a lie.

The second claim ignores that the vast majority of the evidence comes from Nazi, not Soviet sources.

The Nazis left TII in the state they photographed it, in 1944. Only the AR camps were demolished, buildings buried, planted over and left guarded.

[Nessie]

The Korherr Report records what happened to these deportees, but you distort it by believing in euphemism, I can do nothing.

You are bringing the Korherr report to the debate, because you have zero archaeological evidence to contribute.

[TlsMS93]

Franz Stangl claimed that a piece of wood the size of a cigarette pack was enough, and that the women's fat was more than enough. Witnesses conflict; some say they harvested wood from the camp perimeter, others that oil was enough. None claimed it came from elsewhere, so there's no point in claiming the records were destroyed. The only clandestine image is of the camp revolt, not the cremations under the tracks.

In other words, we have absolutely nothing, just rumors and a huge amount of Polish-Soviet-sponsored propaganda.

[Nessie]

Franz Stangl claimed that a piece of wood the size of a cigarette pack was enough, and that the women's fat was more than enough.

You do this a lot. Why not quote Stangl, rather than your dishonest misrepresentation?

Witnesses conflict; some say they harvested wood from the camp perimeter, others that oil was enough. None claimed it came from elsewhere, so there's no point in claiming the records were destroyed.

That is not confliction, that is corroboration. The witnesses vary how they describe the pyres, but they are clearly describing the same thing, corpses piled onto a grate above wood, that was set on fire, often using petrol. If you went into more detail and actually quoted witnesses, you would see they also describe how the use of pyres developed, and that earliest cremations were by pouring fuel into the graves and setting it alight.

Your dishonest misrepresentation of the evidence, only fools yourself into thinking there is a conflict between the witnesses. If you learned more about memory and recall, you would not keep on making so many mistakes.

The only clandestine image is of the camp revolt, not the cremations under the tracks.

In other words, we have absolutely nothing, just rumors and a huge amount of Polish-Soviet-sponsored propaganda.

Former camp staff, giving statements for their trials in West Germany, describing how the pyres worked, is not just rumour. Please stop your repeated lying.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... speak.html

[TlsMS93]

No one denies that bodies may have been cremated; it's just that the alleged quantity is unprovable due to a variety of obstacles. Therefore, confessing to cremating people doesn't prove they killed them or that they cremated them to hide something. A country that has waged a war against the rest of the world for nearly six years isn't going to mass-murder millions, bury them, and then dig them up and cremate them.

[Nessie]

No one denies that bodies may have been cremated; it's just that the alleged quantity is unprovable due to a variety of obstacles. Therefore, confessing to cremating people doesn't prove they killed them or that they cremated them to hide something.

The Nazi confessions are corroborated by the Jewish witnesses, archaeological and geophysical evidence and the circumstantial evidence of mass arrivals, with no corresponding mass departures and the theft of personal property. There is also evidence of motive and of a cover-up.

That volume of evidence would normally be enough, you have chosen to deny it.

A country that has waged a war against the rest of the world for nearly six years isn't going to mass-murder millions, bury them, and then dig them up and cremate them.

Your opinion is not evidence. You use it as a substitute for evidence.

[TlsMS93]

What corroborated the witnesses' claims? If I say you're a thief, I'd have to prove the materiality of the theft under threat of slander or defamation. What did the Jewish witnesses offer? Videos, high-quality photos, audio recordings of the perpetrators on site? No, they said a bunch of disconnected and contradictory things. They didn't have a body counter being cremated; it's all exaggerated anecdotes that you, being Jewish, accept because they favor your identity.

In fact, I'm inclined to never discuss this topic with Jews again for obvious reasons. Psychologically, they tend to see any argument or evidence to the contrary as fitting into the cultural narrative, just as they firmly maintain that the Torah was written by the fingers of God.