Archaeological Evidence of Mass Graves at Treblinka II

[Nessie]

So, a second hand report, with no primary sources of evidence. You would not normally believe the Central Jewish Historical Commission. You also gloss over how critical they are of the Soviets, who you usually claim were their masters. Do you believe them when they concluded TII was a death camp? Or do you just cherry-pick what suits you?

The geophysical survey work has identified rectangular pits, that are corroborated by eyewitnesses and the 1944 aerial photo. There are also photos of and witnesses to grave robbers digging at the site. All primary sourced evidence.

The evidence of the Jewish Historical Commission is as good as anyone else, more credible perhaps.

What about their claim that TII was a death camp?

I am not discussing their other works only their report on Treblinka used as a bombing range. I gave photos of how multiple bombs create rectangular pits.

They are not rectangular pits with straight edges and ramps, as found at TII.

None of your information is primary sourced, just mere rhetoric.

Lie, the evidence is from eyewitness statements, contemporaneous documents, photos, archaeological and circumstantial evidence around the operation of AR.

[TlsMS93]

The exterminationists come here with the audacity to question the system?

If there were no one to question the system or the established order, we would still be in the trees, or in caves. Caves are the safest place in the world. There was nothing above caves. Why leave the cave, as the cave PhD would say 200,000 years ago? Why take another step? Because we are this way by nature. We are paying a high price, but the progress is great.

The great geniuses of humanity, and I am far from including myself among them, had little training in anything, some had nothing at all, some even had a mystery, but their learning was challenging concepts and driving disruptive developments. So in 2025 a group thinks that nothing outside the authority of a university is valid, that their logic is the one that prevails and that's it, the revisionists are Ignaz Semmelweis, we wash our hands of evaluating the chemistry of concentration camps and the thermodynamic limits of ovens and all the paperwork that contradicts the allegations and we are called crazy for not believing witnesses.

[Nazgul]

What about their claim that TII was a death camp?

If there was a death camp it was some 5km south of the current TII, at Kosow Lacki, at least according to the CIA reports and the elders of Wolka Okraglik.
"On 6 November 1945, investigating judge Z Łukaszkiewicz, in the presence of J. Maciejewski, a prosecutor of the District Court in Siedlce, K. Trautsolt, a sworn ground surveyor, witnesses Samuel Rajzman and Henryk Rajchman-Romanowski and Stanisław Kucharek, village leader of Wólka Okrąglik, inspected the site where Treblinka death camp was located, Kosów Lacki municipality."
The camp was founded on a portion of grounds belonging to the village of Wólka Okrąglik, Kosów Lacki municipality, Sokołów Podlaski district, Warsaw voivodeship, close to the border with Węgrów district. some two kilometres away and a paved way leading to the penal labour camp in Treblinka, which also was located some two kilometres west of the death camp. The concrete road and the death camp are connected via a paved road running along the north-western perimeter of the camp; this road is an extension of the aforementioned road leading to the labour camp.
The arbeitslager TI from the current TII memorial is 1.6 km SW not west.

There is a mention of a Treblinka III as well. This is the site of the current prison at Czerwony bor.
"The Treblinka-III camp was listed as "the death camp" for the Jews and was reported to be located at Czerwony Bor. As late as in 1944, its existence was also mentioned in the renowned wartime publication Ghetto Speaks published in New York (Encl. 6). The remote Czerwony Bor (Red Forest) was (and is) located forty kilometers north of the Treblinka-I and Treblinka-II camps. Additional documents regarding Treblinka-III are available from the Polish Historical Society in the USA (tel. 203--325--1079) and archives of the Polish Underground Study Trust in London (tel. 011-4481-992-6057)."...John Demjanjuk amicus curiae

They are not rectangular pits with straight edges and ramps, as found at TII.

Bombs would have obliterated all this so called "evidence" which never existed. This ground penetrating radar is not as precise as you claim.

A real historian would be interested in the above evidence and would not dismiss the obvious contradictions to the narrative promulgated.

[Wetzelrad]

If there was a death camp it was some 5km south of the current TII, at Kosow Lacki, at least according to the CIA reports and the elders of Wolka Okraglik.
"On 6 November 1945, investigating judge Z Łukaszkiewicz, in the presence of J. Maciejewski, a prosecutor of the District Court in Siedlce, K. Trautsolt, a sworn ground surveyor, witnesses Samuel Rajzman and Henryk Rajchman-Romanowski and Stanisław Kucharek, village leader of Wólka Okrąglik, inspected the site where Treblinka death camp was located, Kosów Lacki municipality."
The camp was founded on a portion of grounds belonging to the village of Wólka Okrąglik, Kosów Lacki municipality, Sokołów Podlaski district, Warsaw voivodeship, close to the border with Węgrów district. some two kilometres away and a paved way leading to the penal labour camp in Treblinka, which also was located some two kilometres west of the death camp. The concrete road and the death camp are connected via a paved road running along the north-western perimeter of the camp; this road is an extension of the aforementioned road leading to the labour camp.
The arbeitslager TI from the current TII memorial is 1.6 km SW not west.

Wólka Okrąglik is about 2 km from TII, and TII is about 1.9 km SW from TI. Definitely more south than west, but the description is otherwise accurate. I'm not sure why you take issue with it.

The Treblinka-III camp was listed as "the death camp" for the Jews

Well, that is odd.

[Nazgul]

Wólka Okrąglik is about 2 km from TII, and TII is about 1.9 km SW from TI. Definitely more south than west, but the description is otherwise accurate. I'm not sure why you take issue with it.

In the course of the activities, with the witnesses and the village leader consulted for information and explanations, the following facts were established:
The closest village, Wólka Okrąglik, located to the north-east of the camp, is some 1.5 kilometers away, while the distance to the closest railway station, Treblinka, located to the north-west, is around 4 kilometers. Chronicles of Terror

This town is South-East of the camp.

Well, that is odd.

General Grot Rowecki (Polish Home Army..Armia Krajowa) planned an attack on the Treblinka Extermination Camp at Czerwony Bor.
Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, says:
Treblinka] was situated in a sparsely populated area near Malkinia,
a railway station on the main Warsaw-Białystok line; the camp’s precise
location was 2.5 miles (4 km) north west of the village and railway stop of
Treblinka. The site selected was heavily wooded and well hidden from
view.
The camp was laid out in a rectangle 1,312 feet wide by 1,968 feet long
(400 x 600 m),

[Nessie]

This thread is about the archaeology of TII, the AR camp on the spur line to the Treblinka quarry and labour camp and in particular the 1945, 2011 and 2024 archaeological surveys.

If anyone wants to discuss other possible camps in the area, then make that into another thread.

[Nazgul]

This thread is about the archaeology of TII, the AR camp on the spur line to the Treblinka quarry and labour camp and in particular the 1945, 2011 and 2024 archaeological surveys.

If anyone wants to discuss other possible camps in the area, then make that into another thread.

Oh you mean the two Judenlagers mentioned by Marion Olszuk and the Russian bombing range.

[Keen]

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves, as they knew that is impossible.

All the mass graves dug by the Nazis, and the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps and Chelmno.

Mass graves are proven. By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

I can point to them in the ground. There are 11 [at Treblinka II]: G32, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53 & 54.

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 4614037jpg.

So Nessie admits that 4 of the 15 fraudulently alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II have never been proven to exist.

Nessie, what is 29,600,000 divided by 11?

Nessie, in total, how many single, disconnected human teeth have been tangibly discovered within G32, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53 & G54. : _?_.

Nessie, does one need a pair of your magic glasses:



to see the alleged 29,600,000 teeth in these 11 phantom "huge mass grave"s?

[Keen]

Are there proven mass graves at Belzec or Chelmno?

Read;

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

So there's no proven graves even where archeologists have claimed to have found cremains. How am I supposed to prove any of this?

Why do you think they are listed as "probable pits"?

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 614037jpg.

[Keen]

The pits G50-54 are archaeological evidence of mass graves. Those pits are not hypothetical, they are proven to exist by GPR.

They are listed as "probable pits" - not proven pits.

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 614037jpg.

pit
[pit]
noun
a large hole in the ground.

Are there "large holes in the ground" where these "probable pits" are allegd to be - Yes. - or - No. - ??

What kind of geophysical equipment does one need to see if a "large hole in the ground" exists or not?

[Keen]

Historians have a consistent, evidenced, cohesive narrative for the function of the camp.

But no mass graves.

Ooooops!

[Keen]

You are trying to minimise what was found, when you suggest she only found 3 shallow pits.

*10 - Is it - True. - or - False. - that; The largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the one hundred graves / cremation pits in question at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II, in which verified human remains have been tangibly located via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology, is - THIS SOBIBOR GRAVE - ??

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11 ... 391739.jpg

[Keen]

the sheer volume of evidence for mass graves at TII

25 - Of the 15 alleged Treblinka II graves / cremation pits in question:

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 4614037jpg.

the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains is number: _?_.

[Keen]

the sheer volume of evidence for mass graves at TII

The geophysical survey work has identified rectangular pits

They are not rectangular pits with straight edges and ramps, as found at TII.

I'll add those to the list Nessie:

The Nazis were not trying to magically disappear the corpses and the graves, as they knew that is impossible.

All the mass graves dug by the Nazis, and the corpses they cremated, are still at the AR camps and Chelmno.

The geophysical survey work has identified rectangular pits with straight edges and ramps [at TII].

The sheer volume of evidence for mass graves at TII... Mass graves are proven.

By all normal standards of evidencing, they are proven.

I can point to them in the ground.

There are 11 [at Treblinka II]: G32, G1, G44, G4, G38, G36, G50, G51, G52, G53 & 54.

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 4614037jpg.

Nessie, does one need a pair of your magic glasses:



to see these "rectangular pits with straight edges and ramps"?

How about the alleged "large holes in the ground"?

BTW, what kind of magic does it take for 11 "large holes in the ground" to contain 6.753 million pounds of human remains (including 29.6 million teeth) without anyone (without magic glasses) being able to see said alleged remians?

[Keen]

A reminder of what CSC alleges:

possible
adjective
being something that may or may not be true or actual

gravesite
noun
The location of a grave

and

probable
adjective
supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof

pit
noun
a large hole in the ground.

Look here for how she describes here "findings"

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=229 ... count=2843