Korherr Report "Decoding" Instruction

[Eye of Zyclone]

All great points, thanks a lot for the help. I've also hear an additional argument that the tracked number of Jews in the report (1,274,166, confirmed by Höfle Telegram), never showed up anywhere else, which may construe their demise. Furthermore, that because the report is dated to early 1943 or later 1942, such transportation of Jews to the Russian East was not actually possible as the Russians were pushing back. This would make the reports claim of such transportation dubious.

The Germans still held vast areas in Eastern Europe in 1942, 1943 and even 1944 to make it a good dumping ground for unwanted Jews during most of WW2. Europeans never had the huge areas Americans had (and still have). They always managed to do much with little (best use of relatively small areas, poor resources management, ersatz products, etc.). The English way of conquering gigantic areas all over the world in order to get more resources was not the European way of doing things for most of European history.


Eastern Front (WWII), 1942-05-07 to 1942-11-18

[Eye of Zyclone]

Perhaps Himmler's concern was also that a term like "special treatment" could be confused for killing, hence why he recommended it be changed to properly account for these Jews being documented.

The least any responsible leader could do when he was being accused of turning Jews into soap and the likes by the founder of American Zionism himself.

Only with Holocaust goggles do we (through our own Hollywood-fueled biases) jump immediately to thinking (or accepting) every vague term or phrase is a Nazi cover-up for 'gassing'... because we all know just how evil those Nazis were. Didn't you see Schindler's List, after all?

A the core of the Holohoax conspiracy theory. From day one...

[Wahrheitssucher]

…I've also heard an additional argument that the tracked number of Jews in the report (1,274,166, confirmed by Höfle Telegram), never showed up anywhere else, which may construe their demise.

You might be interested to know that the REALITY regarding the Höfle telegram is that it is almost certainly bogus.

It is claimed to supposedly be the ONLY deciphered message that was ever intercepted concerning the alleged programme to mass-murder all of the 11 million jewish people in ALL of Europe and mentioned in the Wannsee protocol.

We are asked to believe that the Third Reich high-command and their ‘Endlösung’ operatives NEVER sent any other unequivocal messages — neither by paper nor by coded messages — about such a huge operation! NOTHING! Not one other message or order supposedly could be found in all the many tons of captured documents and hundreds-of-thousands of secret-code messages that were intercepted.

You would have to have a self-delusional ‘belief’ in the Holocaust mass-gassing ‘Jew genocide’ narrative to think that makes sense.

Raul Hilberg is the only HolyH, mass-gassing believer who had the honesty to admit that absence doesn’t make sense. And to to explain the absence of written orders he invented the explanation that the whole policy and all the necessary logistical issues were sorted using telepathic ‘mind-reading’. *

* “But what began in 1941 was a process of destruction not planned in advance, not organized centrally by any agency. There was no blueprint and there was no budget for destructive measures. They [these measures] were taken step by step, one step at a time.
Thus came about not so much a plan being carried out, but an incredible meeting of minds, a consensus — mind-reading by a far-flung bureaucracy.”
~ Raul Hilberg

Even the Höfle telegram itself — if it is genuine — is not unequivocally referring to the supposed programme to mass-murder 11 million Jews. It needs ‘interpreting’.
Both i.) the numbers have to be adjusted to fit,
AND ii.) what the initials supposedly represent have to be interpreted RETROACTIVELY to fit the belief-system.
That has been gone into here: https://rodoh.info/post/3473

Another anomaly pointing to this being a forgery is that Höfle’s name is spelt not as it would have been in a German transmission using German alphabet on a German typewriter but is spelt without an umlaut. I.e. it is spelt as Anglicised ‘Hoefle’.

To decrypt the intercepts required an Enigma machine AND a German typewriter with keys for the German letters ö ü ä.
You will see that these letters of the German alphabet are used elsewhere by the decrypting team.
So presumably the forgers did not know that Höfle was how his name was spelt, not the Anglicised ”Hoefle”.

The files were archived, kept secret and not “declassified” and made available to researchers/historians until the late 1990s. Most documents held by the PRO used to be kept "closed" (or secret) for 50 years after being archived there. That changed to 30 years after 1967. So as usual, this imbecile doesn’t know what he is talking about.

OBVIOUSLY, it isn’t being suggested that “a typist back in January 1943 faked the message”.
IF the filed Höfle message IS a forgery, it would have been created and inserted shortly before or after the files were declassified and made accessible to the public in the late 1990s.

It is claimed to have been an extremely lucky find made in the year 2000.
And the motivation for the forgery — IF this is what occurred — would appear to have been in order to support the increasingly beleaguered and collapsing HolyH mass-gassing mythology.

Further implication that it is a convincing forgery seems to me to be the slim likelihood of it just being randomly discovered out of all the several hundreds of thousands of decrypted intercepts, so soon after they were declassified. A reasonable, rational person would be aware that the ’discovery’ was either extremely ’lucky’ and/or very unlikely.

As I understand it, the ones who made public the ‘discovery’ of it are Peter Witte and Stephen Tyas. Presumably one of them ‘found’ it.
But in their publication they don’t mention who found it, nor how (whichever of them supposedly did) just happened upon this particular intercept amongst the many, many thousands.
This fact alone should make any reasonable person suspicious.
There are 101 archives of files, and each one contains several thousands of decrypted intercepts.

So who found it and how did they come across it? And how did they understand the significance of it?

But nobody dare question things like this. Most everybody in the world knows nothing about this kind of detail, and so just gullibly and obediently ’believe’ what they are told to believe.

As we all know, for a historian to publically question in this way would be career-suicide. The only academics and publishing historians who question any of this HolyH-narrative have been ostracised and smeared.
Look what happened to Prof Nolte, Prof. Faurisson, Prof Hayward, Henri Roques, Germar Rudolf and David Irving for proof of that.

SUMMARY:
So the Höfle telegram is yet another good example of just how weak the actual ‘evidence’ is for this ‘belief-system’. It’s up there alongside us being expected to believe that the whole operation was planned and executed using ‘euphemisms’, yet simultaneously we are expected to believe that Hitler OPENLY wrote about his ‘genocide’ plan in ‘Mein kampf’ and even declared it to the world in recorded public broadcasts.
Yeah, sure. That makes complete sense... not!

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/wp- ... hlight.jpg

[ResearcherGuy]

https://codoh.com/library/document/rich ... s-reports/

Like Challen, I have doubts about Korherr's root aggregate...

I've seen that video years ago, have it archived. They were clearly given a script to read off of. No gas freezes you and turns you blue, Willy Wonky would be proud.

I've heard it argued that all the other Jews were accounted for, except these 1.27 million. The Nazis were meticious record keepers, but no traces of these 1.27 million are found.

[Stubble]

Must have been a different video Guy. Check the one I linked and try it on for size.

Regarding missing persons, missing persons are missing, not dead. Dead people are dead and not necessarily murdered. Murder is a serious charge that requires evidence.

To date I have not seen this evidence.

In testimony you see that many camps were abandoned. The people in those camps may or may not have chosen to stay to liberation. Regardless, these people would not have a thorough accounting in the written record as there was no one left to record.

When you look at the refugee files, you see that jews from the east overran cities like Vienna causing unrest on their way out of Europe. Were all of these jews counted? Has there ever been a thorough audit of this post war diaspora? To my knowledge, no.

The fable I was told in school was that these missing people were murdered, placed in discrete holes in known places, dug up, cremated on open pyres and then used to pave roads. This is a pure fiction.

Over time the myth has evolved and is ever changing as to keep me chasing my tail playing whack a mole with excuses for the lack of evidence for the claims.

Ultimately, I can't tell you where these people are. I can however show you where they are not. They are not where we have been told they were.

[ResearcherGuy]

Must have been a different video Guy. Check the one I linked and try it on for size.

Regarding missing persons, missing persons are missing, not dead. Dead people are dead and not necessarily murdered. Murder is a serious charge that requires evidence.

No as I said I've seen that video, and I even referenced the nonsense of people turning blue which is referenced in that video. Try reading carefully.

Yes they are missing, this is not proof of death. But when they aren't accounted for in any records as any one else is, it is suspect.

I'm debating someone, and they made this argument :

The Nature of Treblinka as a "Station"
This is where the "transportation" vs. "extermination" debate hits a physical reality. If Treblinka were a transit camp for 713,000+ people:

The Infrastructure: It lacked the barracks, kitchens, or sanitation facilities to house even a fraction of that number for a single night.

The "Forward" Rail: There was no rail line leading out of the camp toward the East that could handle the volume of people arriving. The trains arrived, were emptied, and the same cars were recorded returning empty to the main line.

The SS Inventory: As mentioned earlier, we have the "positive" record of what left the camp: thousands of freight cars filled with sorted clothing, shoes, and personal effects of the people who had just arrived.

I don't how much of that is true. Just saying there is no direct proof of murder doesn't settle the matter though, despite that being true. They got to these camps, then vanished without a trace. You have to consider the likelyhood of extermination, versus mysterious dissapearance.

[Stubble]

Ah, that is my bad. I don't actually consider that central to the thesis and had forgotten it was in there. Upon review, you are correct Sir. Apologies.

For the record, this wasn't because I don't read, it was because I had linked it for the testimony of those transited through these pure extermination centers.

Regarding the missing, it's a head scratcher for sure. Kind of like trying to account for all of the aircraft rivets Focke Wulf sent all over the Reich at the close of the war. Some are, unsurprisingly, unaccounted for. That doesn't mean they were buried in a field, melted down, and used to make Panzerfaust.

It should be infinitely easier for The Orthodoxy to show me where someone was murdered and cremated than for me to show you an 80 year old footprint.

Until proven otherwise, I conjecture that jews went, where jews are.

[ResearcherGuy]

Regarding the missing, it's a head scratcher for sure. Kind of like trying to account for all of the aircraft rivets Focke Wulf sent all over the Reich at the close of the war. Some are, unsurprisingly, unaccounted for. That doesn't mean they were buried in a field, melted down, and used to make Panzerfaust.

It should be infinitely easier for The Orthodoxy to show me where someone was murdered and cremated than for me to show you an 80 year old footprint.

Until proven otherwise, I conjecture that jews went, where jews are.

Again the Nazis were meticilous record keepers. If these camps were transit camps then there would most likely be a record of such transit. We would except records of wherever they were moved to.

Koherr did the following with the 1.27 million figure :

• 1. He subtracted them from the General Government.
  
  2. He did not add them to the totals for the East.
  
  3. He categorized the entire group under "The Diminishment of Jewry."

It's not proof of murder, but the case for them up and disappearing without a record seems less likely.

[Stubble]

Again, they are not where I was told they were, they are some place else.

I don't think you and I simply restating this is going to be productive.

I again warn about relying on this single report as proof of anything as I question the root aggregate.

Could this cohort represent a group of people who were murdered? I suppose. That would have to be illustrated with evidence however which has not been forthcoming.

Regarding not counting these jews with jews 'in the wild' in the east, these jews were still under the control of the German Authorities and were pacified, thus, they were not 'wild jews' in the east that still needed to be pacified in one way or another.

There is evidence of a diaspora from Europe post war, records are incredibly sloppy during this period, missing persons are not dead and even dead people are not necessarily murdered.

I stress again that I can not show you where this cohort of missing jews went. I further stress that neither can The Orthodoxy.

I will ask you again, what is easier to find after 80 years? A hole in the ground that was filled with the dead who were dug up and cremated? Or a footprint in the sand from 80 years ago?

To be very clear, I am looking for these missing persons, all of them. One thing that would help would be if The Orthodoxy could tell me who is missing, instead of pointing to a chart and saying 'it's this many'...

[ResearcherGuy]

Again, they are not where I was told they were, they are some place else.

I don't think you and I simply restating this is going to be productive.

I again warn about relying on this single report as proof of anything as I question the root aggregate.

"Again, they are not where I was told they were, they are some place else."

This is not an argument of any kind. And your statement about restating is quite ironic.

The Koherr Report is corroborated by the Holfe Telegram, so much for single report. It was found among the files of the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) and the Personal Staff of the Reichsführer-SS (Himmler), it has multiple versions and cross references, its not some loose random report.

Evidence of a diaspora doesn't account for the 1.27 million not only being unreported for any transport, but being subtracted by Koherr. We have no record of them being transported elsewhere. Records were sloppy, except the very detailed Koherr report and Holfe Telegram...

[Stubble]

We do have records of portions of this cohort being moved from the Bug River camps, and video testimony as well, as outlined in the video linked in my first post in this thread.

That the population of Seattle was not buried at Treblinka II, dug up, and cremated on BBQ Grilles is demonstrable, and thus, these 925,000 jews were not murdered there, obviously. That's evidence that they were not murdered there, especially when taken with the video testimony of the people transited through.

Your non addressing of the fact that this cohort was not counted with the 'wild' cohort in the east is telling .you simply drone on that since they are in a different group in the report, they were murdered. Read Korherr's Der Speigel letter, he is very clear that he meant they had been resettled, not murdered. I linked the letter from the issue of Der Speigel in my original post in this thread, and I don't know how this could be more clear.

If I have 2 pieces of paper that both say that the population of Seattle went to a place over the course of a year that doesn't mean they were murdered there. It just means that they went. If I have 2 pieces of paper that both say 2+2=5, that doesn't make it a factually correct statement.

Was the Hoffle Telegram based off of the Korherr Report? Or was the Korherr Report based off of the Hoffle Telegram? Gee, I suppose we could, check the date...

You seem to have issue with the answer that jews went where jews are. I have issue with 'they were murdered here' without evidence to support the claim. What evidence there is refutes the claim as the dead wouldn't fit in the space as a liquid.

Just to add, in the letter Korherr also says he did not create this report, he merely was sent this report and told not to change one jot nor one tittle.

Spoiler

Der SPIEGEL veröffentlicht leider die Behauptung des englischen Historikers Irving, ich hätte im Frühjahr 1943 auf Himmlers Order die Zahl der Opfer des Judentums berechnet. Tatsächlich wurden diese Angaben vom Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) fix und fertig samt Text mir geliefert mit der Auflage, keine Zahl und kein Wort ändern zu dürfen.

SPIEGEL unfortunately publishes the claim of the English historian Irving that I calculated the number of victims of Judaism on Himmler's order in the spring of 1943. In fact, this information was delivered to me by the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA), complete and complete, along with the text, with the stipulation that no number or word could be changed.

Not unlike Zabecki not being a Stationmaster, and not taking the famous photo of the Treblinka Uprising, Korherr did not generate this report...

[ResearcherGuy]

We do have records of portions of this cohort being moved from the Bug River camps, and video testimony as well, as outlined in the video linked in my first post in this thread...

Post the records, not watching a video to find them. Not sure what your Seattle BBQ nonsense has to do with anything. You aren't articulating any argument with this "wild cohort" nonsense.

"they are in a different group in the report, they were murdered"

Nope, that is your inference as you don't listen. My position is that murder of them is quite plausible given that they dissapeared without a trace. Is there a distinct lack of logging in your Seattle analogy? What about Koherr subtracting the number as though they were just gone?

"Read Korherr's Der Speigel letter, he is very clear that he meant they had been resettled, not murdered"

Well hes incentivized to say that. Resettled where with what tracking data?

"Was the Hoffle Telegram based off of the Korherr Report? Or was the Korherr Report based off of the Hoffle Telegram? Gee, I suppose we could, check the date"

Incomplete insinuation, no articulated argument.

[Archie]

My position is that murder of them is quite plausible given that they dissapeared without a trace.

ResearcherGuy,

Given that it is now very apparent that you are not a revisionist, please explain to me why you decided to represent yourself dishonestly and why you thought that was a good idea.

Those who disagree with us are welcome on the forum, and we have a Debate board precisely for this. The dishonesty you have displayed, however, is not welcome.

This is an openly and unapologetically revisionist-run forum. However, we take no official editorial stance on any particular issue and people can participate regardless of belief. This includes revisionists who may differ from other revisionists on some things, as well as those who are still "on the fence." We would ask only that you not present yourself dishonestly (e.g., by pretending to be a revisionist when you definitely are not).

[Stubble]

If there is a vote, put my pebble in the 'move to debate forum' bucket regarding this thread.

To be fair, I think Guy is calling himself a revisionist because he doesn't believe in showers of doom.

I can also see that he is taking an exterminationist line with this report anyhow, so, half a caust?

[Eye of Zyclone]

I've heard it argued that all the other Jews were accounted for, except these 1.27 million. The Nazis were meticious record keepers, but no traces of these 1.27 million are found.

And no traces of the 6 million Germans who "have vanished from the earth" during the brutal de-Germanization of Eastern Europe, according to Konrad Adenauer (the Zionist anti-Nazi 1st chancellor of post-WW2 Germany), were found either. But don't even try to say publicly that 6 million Germans were killed in Eastern Europe during the WW2 mass expulsion of Germans because you would be called a neo-Nazi or an anti-Semite without delay for doing that.



Why would the Soviets have kept and archived Nazi documents debunking their own atrocity propaganda about Stalin's Great Patriotic War? Would have been beyond stupid! Even Dumb Trump was not stupid enough to release the Epstein files that incriminated him and his closest "friends"...



Google's AI:

The destruction of documents has a long history, from ancient Egyptians burning papyrus to modern industrial shredding, driven by the need for secrecy, regime security, and information management. Historically, this includes intentional, often state-sanctioned destruction of records during conflicts, such as the burning of the Library of Alexandria in 48 B.C.. Modern, secure destruction became necessary for privacy, leading to the invention of the shredder in the 1930s.

Key Aspects of Document Destruction History:

• Ancient & Classical Times: In addition to fire, Greeks and Romans erased ink from papyrus or scraped it off parchment to reuse the material.

• Biblio-clasm: The intentional destruction of books and libraries, often rooted in political or religious ideology, occurred throughout history, such as the widespread burning of libraries during the 16th-century European Reformation.

• War and Conflict: Massive volumes of records were destroyed during wartime.

• Information Concealment: Governments have historically destroyed records to cover up actions, such as Britain destroying colonial files in Kenya during the 1950s–70s.

• Modern Shredding: German engineer Adolf Ehinger is credited with creating the first paper shredder in the 1930s to destroy his own sensitive documents, evolving into a critical tool for protecting privacy.

Archives Lost: The French Revolution and the Destruction of Medieval French Manuscripts

By Thomas Lecaque

There is a moment, while contemplating gaps in the archival record as a medievalist, when we are then tempted to focus on the “bibliocide” of the past, to mourn the death of records that would have offered insight into our narrow, chosen fields. For French medievalists like myself, the French Revolution represents at once a fundamental shift towards modernity and an irrevocable loss of medieval materiality. Mobs burst into the monastery, cathedral, parish church, castle, or palace, dragged the manuscripts out of the armoires where they had been stored for centuries, piled them in a mound in a public place, and lit the patrimony of the nation on fire. From the ashes, modernity arose, but at a cost.

The French Revolution is famous for its rapid and violent destruction of feudalism and “secularization.” The nationalization of churches, monasteries, properties owned by clergy, and wealth, as well as the suppression of the aristocracy and clerical system that dominated the country as of 1790 was fairly complete.[1] This “nationalization” was not a staid, controlled affair; priests were removed from their property, monasteries were turned into stables for animals that shat in the space medieval altars once occupied, filth coated frescoes made centuries before, and crowds in the grips of a secular iconoclasm tore down and burned religious items. Sooner than later, the Notre Dame de Paris, like many other churches, would be turned into temples of Reason under the Terror.

The nationalization of goods in the provinces included all of their manuscripts, too, and if the burning in the north was curtailed by the creation of the National Archives in 1790—with a decree to centralize all documents appearing four years later and a law mandating it only in 1796—it took longer to stop in the southern regions. The destruction of medieval texts was part of a well-established pattern of destruction of title deeds, charters, and other business records that established land controls and rents, with notable documents stretching from the high Middle Ages on. By burning genealogies, cartularies, title papers, and registers, revolutionary officials and mobs of local citizens dispossessed the nobility and removed legal cases against the actual inhabitants of the land, while simultaneously destroying some of the richest sources for the political, social, and economic histories of medieval France.[2] Seen individually, it is a shame. Writ large, however, the estimate is that during the French Revolution, more than FOUR MILLION VOLUMES were burnt from suppressed monasteries, of which 25,000 were medieval manuscripts.[3] This total is for all of France, not just the south; we do not, unfortunately, have clear totals for the losses in individual regions. What it means overall, though, is that manuscripts from the eleventh and early 12th centuries—my own period of research—which survived recycling, minor local disasters, six hundred years of wear-and-tear, the Albigensian Crusade in the 13th century, the Wars of Religion, and everything else, were tossed like garbage into piles in city squares and burned while the mob cheered. The damage done by the French Revolution to southern French history in particular is incalculable.

https://ageofrevolutions.com/2019/04/29 ... nuscripts/

Britain destroyed records of colonial crimes

Review finds thousands of papers detailing shameful acts were culled, while others were kept secret illegally

Thousands of documents detailing some of the most shameful acts and crimes committed during the final years of the British empire were systematically destroyed to prevent them falling into the hands of post-independence governments, an official review has concluded.

Those papers that survived the purge were flown discreetly to Britain where they were hidden for 50 years in a secret Foreign Office archive, beyond the reach of historians and members of the public, and in breach of legal obligations for them to be transferred into the public domain.

The archive came to light last year when a group of Kenyans detained and allegedly tortured during the Mau Mau rebellion won the right to sue the British government. The Foreign Office promised to release the 8,800 files from 37 former colonies held at the highly-secure government communications centre at Hanslope Park in Buckinghamshire.

The papers at Hanslope Park include monthly intelligence reports on the "elimination" of the colonial authority's enemies in 1950s Malaya; records showing ministers in London were aware of the torture and murder of Mau Mau insurgents in Kenya, including a case of aman said to have been "roasted alive"; and papers detailing the lengths to which the UK went to forcibly remove islanders from Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean.

However, among the documents are a handful which show that many of the most sensitive papers from Britain's late colonial era were not hidden away, but simply destroyed. These papers give the instructions for systematic destruction issued in 1961 after Iain Macleod, secretary of state for the colonies, directed that post-independence governments should not get any material that "might embarrass Her Majesty's government", that could "embarrass members of the police, military forces, public servants or others eg police informers", that might compromise intelligence sources, or that might "be used unethically by ministers in the successor government".

The documents that were not destroyed appear to have been kept secret not only to protect the UK's reputation, but to shield the government from litigation. If the small group of Mau Mau detainees are successful in their legal action, thousands more veterans are expected to follow.

The documents show that colonial officials were instructed to separate those papers to be left in place after independence – usually known as "Legacy files" – from those that were to be selected for destruction or removal to the UK. In many colonies, these were described as watch files, and stamped with a red letter W.

Painstaking measures were taken to prevent post-independence governments from learning that the watch files had ever existed. One instruction states: "The legacy files must leave no reference to watch material. Indeed, the very existence of the watch series, though it may be guessed at, should never be revealed."

When a single watch file was to be removed from a group of legacy files, a "twin file" – or dummy – was to be created to insert in its place. If this was not practicable, the documents were to be removed en masse.

Many of the watch files ended up at Hanslope Park. They came from 37 different former colonies, and filled 200 metres of shelving. But it is becoming clear that much of the most damning material was probably destroyed. Officials in some colonies, such as Kenya, were told that there should be a presumption in favour of disposal of documents rather than removal to the UK – "emphasis is placed upon destruction" – and that no trace of either the documents or their incineration should remain. When documents were burned, "the waste should be reduced to ash and the ashes broken up".

Some idea of the scale of the operation and the amount of documents that were erased from history can be gleaned from a handful of instruction documents that survived the purge. In certain circumstances, colonial officials in Kenya were informed, "it is permissible, as an alternative to destruction by fire, for documents to be packed in weighted crates and dumped in very deep and current-free water at maximum practicable distance from the coast".



https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/apr ... ial-crimes