The CODOH Revisionist Forum

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 4:15 am Nope. Plenty of stuff calling 'night's an eyewitness autobiography though, so, technically, still part of 'The Holy H'. When you point it out though, people will say you are strawmanning.

Booze wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 6:50 am

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 6:12 am I'll see if I can find Debbie lipshitz saying it some place. Pretty sure she's the only one stupid enough to actually crow it.

Hilberg would cite authors who said crazy shit, but never the crazy shit, so, I doubt he mentioned the burning babies. Same with Arad and Bauer. Browning wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I believe Professor Terry said something to the effect of 'it's hyperbole'.

I just got done checking Hilberg's book on the Internet Archive it's a limited preview but it can be searched (it seems like a full search but I can't be sure).
I used a several search terms (children, pits, flames, fire, Auschwitz etc). As far as I can find he mentions one incident describing a mass shooting, in an unsigned and undated report, that claims children were set on fire. It had nothing to do with Auschwitz.
Hilberg's book seems to be loaded with a lot of Jewish victim-hood through the centuries. He goes very heavy on historic claims of Jews poisoning wells as if it's all baseless defaming by Christians. But recently I read of a report admitting that, post ww2, Jews poisoned Palestinian wells as a method of driving them off their land. Hopefully I'll locate it.
He also mentions that the Einsatzgruppen gave all the dirty work of murdering children to the Ukranians, which obviously conflicts with the idea of Germans burning children at Auschwitz.

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 6:12 am Ole Elie made sure to mention the lakes and rivers of fire and the burning of babies alive (to the background of SS men beating drums to drown out their cries I'm sure), but, oddly omitted the Homicidal Gas Chambers, not unlike many other early authors. Strange that.

Then there is tge part about going to rape and loot upon liberation. How 'pleasant' and what a sterling example of 'Nobel Material'.

I'm interested in having those particular excerpts, if they are available.

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 7:53 am On the book night, a thread;

viewtopic.php?p=18990#p18990
Regarding jewish well poisoning in Palestine, you are thinking of 'operation cast they bread'.

In describing flaming pits, Wiesel was adopting a trope which had already been accepted as evidence at the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal. Like the pericopes which make up the Gospels, the Holocaust Narrative is made up of tropes, which can be inserted at will to provide repositories of meaning. One can replace the other as the narrative develops in time, which is precisely what happened to Wiesel's burning pit narrative when it got replaced by the gas chamber trope after aerial photographs, released in 1979, made it obvious that there were no 80-meter-long flaming pits in the camps.

The Holocaust Narrative, p. 202.

It is important to note how Jean-François Forges, the author of the French brainwashing manual for teachers, handles this claim by Wiesel. Not surprisingly, he falls back on the excuse that Wiesel is actually speaking in allegorical terms, not literal ones. First, completely ignoring the aerial photographs which clearly show that Wiesel’s vision is a pure invention, Forges tries to validate Wiesel’s vision by stating that other eyewitnesses also saw flames and smoke.

Elie Wiesel, Saint of the Holocaust, HH#30, p. 123.

As director of the President's Commission on the Holocaust, created in 1978, and a council member charged with conceptualizing the Holocaust Memorial Museum's permanent exhibition, [Rabbi Irving] Greenberg has played a major role in shaping Holocaust commemoration in the United States. In a paper presented at a 1974 symposium on the Holocaust, he offered the following dictum: "No statement, theological or otherwise, should be made that would not be credible in the presence of the burning children."

Perhaps no statement better captures the sanctimonious veneration of horror that so often serves to curtail rather than encourage critical thinking about our present-day relationship to the Holocaust. Such statements, it seems to me, promote a kind of dishonesty under the guise of virtuousness. Certainly, in the presence of the children who were thrown alive into the crematorium furnaces or burning pits at Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1944, no abstract statement, theological, philosophical, or theoretical, would be appropriate—including, of course, Greenberg's own working principle. But this is precisely not the context in which we make statements about the Holocaust, and pretending that it is limits and distorts understanding of how present concerns shape the historical past.

Fantasies of Witnessing, p. 215-216

Escape from Hell, Alfred Wetzler's personal story, straddles the line between memoir and literature, in many ways like Eli Wiesel's much heralded Night.

Stubble wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 6:12 am I'll see if I can find Debbie lipshitz saying it some place. Pretty sure she's the only one stupid enough to actually crow it.

Hilberg would cite authors who said crazy shit, but never the crazy shit, so, I doubt he mentioned the burning babies. Same with Arad and Bauer. Browning wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I believe Professor Terry said something to the effect of 'it's hyperbole'.

Ole Elie made sure to mention the lakes and rivers of fire and the burning of babies alive (to the background of SS men beating drums to drown out their cries I'm sure), but, oddly omitted the Homicidal Gas Chambers, not unlike many other early authors. Strange that.

Archie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 8:12 pm Dr. Nyiszli also claims this. There are also stories about children being shoved alive into the ovens.

Archie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 8:12 pm Both Wiesel and Nyiszli are still seen as legit witnesses and their books continue to be presented as factual.

Norman Finkelstein (maybe a little bit outside the "mainstream") is quite critical of Wiesel in The Holocaust Industry.

Robert Rozett of Yad Vashem says this in the introduction to Alfred Wetzler's memoir Escape from Hell.

Escape from Hell, Alfred Wetzler's personal story, straddles the line between memoir and literature, in many ways like Eli Wiesel's much heralded Night.

Hmm, that's one way of putting it. He's admitting the work is partially fictional. Of course he doesn't want to say which parts.

Archie wrote: ↑Sun Jan 25, 2026 8:12 pm Night is actually part of a trilogy. There were two follow-ups, Dawn and Day. Interestingly, both of those are sold as novels. If they were honest, all three would be labeled as novels.